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ARSCLIST  August 2013

ARSCLIST August 2013

Subject:

Re: Sticky ACETATE tape

From:

Marie O'Connell <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Wed, 21 Aug 2013 15:58:46 +1200

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (146 lines)

Hi

I have found using isopropyl alcohol dripped on using a Q-stick frequently,
a pellon wipe and a re-modified low friction Studer B67 very useful in
getting the tape on to the take-up reel before even trying to get a signal
helpful. At least I know I will generally not end up with pull-outs. Once
it has freed up then I have had few problems after that. Patience is a
virtue in the first part!

It doesn't surprise me if this is another 'bad batch' that left the factory
all those years ago.

Cheers
Marie


On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 2:31 AM, Richard L. Hess
<[log in to unmask]>wrote:

> Hello, Paul, Corey, and Jeff,
>
> Thanks for all your replies! I welcome any additional input!
>
> Paul, I believe she was using a ReVox PR99 for this particular playback,
> though there is also an A807 available.
>
> Corey, I agree that the Last Factory products as well as Marie's isopropyl
> drip or my (and others') decamethylcyclopentasiloxane (D5) additional
> lubrication will all work for playback.
>
> This, however, differs from "simple" squealing with the tape rolling off
> under its own weight. In this case as the tape is unspooled, the weight of
> the hanging tape is insufficient to immediately leave the pack, the
> underlying tape layer does hold onto the tape somewhat.
>
> Jeff, I agree that it does sound similar to Scotch 201 syndrome but what
> initially put me off from that is it is a brown oxide tape in a Soundcraft
> box (though we are not certain it is Soundcraft, obviously).
>
> What worries me most about this is that with normal tape pack stresses,
> this adhesion may be worse towards the hub and, at some point, as with 201,
> may result in pull-outs. Scotch 201 for the casual reader is an early 1960s
> tape, the first in the Dynarange series of lower noise with higher output.
> It is a Standard Play (1200' on a 7-inch reel) tape with black mag coat, no
> back coat and an ACETATE base film. 202 and 203 were on a polyester base
> film and were standard play and long play (1800'), respectively.
>
> I am still of a mind (as I wrote back in 2008 and before) that loss of
> lubricant has yet to be proven and that binder degradation (what I proposed
> we should generically call "soft binder syndrome"--which can have many
> manifestations including SSS and probably this) has been shown to be a
> culprit.
>
> To return to this a bit, tapes that suffer what had commonly been called
> loss of lubricant (LoL) showed a typical full lubricant load under
> laboratory analysis. Other laboratory tests showed that the glass
> transition temperature of the coating had fallen to about 8°C which is why
> playing the tape at 4°C alleviated the squeal problem. HOWEVER, at least my
> concept of LoL has never been accompanied by the concept of the tape not
> rolling off cleanly under its own weight. The adhesion does speak to, well,
> some adhesive.
>
> Though we did not discuss smell, we revisited the possibility of external
> contamination several times. Within the first few minutes I asked, "what
> vintage of Coca Cola do you think fell on the tape?" She indicated there
> was no evidence of any damage in this regard.
>
> We did discuss the tape that Nathan Georgitis brought to one of my
> seminars a few years ago which I do not recall showing any significant
> signs of water damage, but had spent some time in an attic which apparently
> had open windows for an extended period and it squealed and suffered
> pullouts--fortunately mostly on the unrecorded track--but other than the
> pullouts, I don't recall an overall adhesion layer-to-layer. However, his
> tape was, I believe, polyester Melody, which was Scotch's answer to
> Shamrock--an off-brand like Irish/Orr/Ampex's Shamrock which were rejects
> from the main brand's line of tape.
>
> So, there are two questions in my mind:
> (1) How to spool the tape off without risking damage from pull-outs.
> http://richardhess.com/notes/**2006/05/26/binder-adhesion-to-**
> back-of-next-layer/<http://richardhess.com/notes/2006/05/26/binder-adhesion-to-back-of-next-layer/>
>
> As noted in that 2006 blog post, cold dry storage for an extended period
> may help as well as very slow unwinding as pioneered at the British Library
> under the late Peter Copeland.
>
> (2) How to play the tape without squealing. These blog posts all discuss
> the problem and several solutions (pun intended)
> http://richardhess.com/notes/**2006/07/12/the-beginning-of-**
> 3m-175-squeal/<http://richardhess.com/notes/2006/07/12/the-beginning-of-3m-175-squeal/>
> http://richardhess.com/notes/**2007/11/08/success-with-**
> squealing-shamrock-031-tape/<http://richardhess.com/notes/2007/11/08/success-with-squealing-shamrock-031-tape/>
> http://richardhess.com/notes/**2012/10/01/playing-a-**
> squealing-reel-of-sony-pr-150-**tape-using-d5/<http://richardhess.com/notes/2012/10/01/playing-a-squealing-reel-of-sony-pr-150-tape-using-d5/>
> http://richardhess.com/notes/**2006/03/09/wet-playing-of-**
> reel-tapes-with-loss-of-**lubricant-a-guest-article-by-**marie-oconnell/<http://richardhess.com/notes/2006/03/09/wet-playing-of-reel-tapes-with-loss-of-lubricant-a-guest-article-by-marie-oconnell/>
>
> This is a comprehensive list of degrading tapes
> http://richardhess.com/notes/**formats/magnetic-media/**
> magnetic-tapes/analog-audio/**degrading-tapes/<http://richardhess.com/notes/formats/magnetic-media/magnetic-tapes/analog-audio/degrading-tapes/>
>
> My tape degradation paper from 2008 is where the concept of cold playback
> is best developed
> http://www.richardhess.com/**tape/history/HESS_Tape_**
> Degradation_ARSC_Journal_39-2.**pdf<http://www.richardhess.com/tape/history/HESS_Tape_Degradation_ARSC_Journal_39-2.pdf>
>
> I hope that helps and I hope to be actually getting my hands on this tape
> in the next month or so.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Richard
>
>
> On 2013-08-20 2:45 AM, Paul Stamler wrote:
>
>> One possibly-relevant question: what machine are you using to play the
>> tape?
>>
>
> On 2013-08-20 1:15 AM, Corey Bailey wrote:> As you know, I use Last Factory
>
> As you know, I use Last Factory
>> lubricant and have had good results with both acetate backed tape and
>> magnetic film. I suspect that Marie O'Connels method would work as
>> well. One could apply the alcohol with an eye dropper instead of
>> Marie’s setup for a one-off transfer.
>>
>
> On 2013-08-20 2:39 AM, Jeff Willens wrote:> Hi Richard,
>
> Do you know if there is any odd smell to the tape / tape box? Could some
>> foreign substance other than water have come in contact with the tape or
>> box?
>>
>> Beyond that, it sounds to me like it's a loss of lubricant in the
>> acetate tape, and/or a variation of the "201 syndrome", since that's
>> what the symptoms most resemble. Does the pulling get worse the further
>> in you wind it?
>>
>
> Richard L. Hess email: [log in to unmask] Aurora,
> Ontario, Canada 647 479 2800
> http://www.richardhess.com/**tape/contact.htm<http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm>Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes.
>

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