Your suggestion is a good one, although it is more helpful if the new
topic is followed by [Was NACO Training Materials on CLW page]. A certain
amount of charity about where people draw the boundary between old and new
needs to be exercised, however. Sometimes the change is blurry.

Your Subject line is an amusing example of not doing precisely what you
are calling for. :-)

Larry
--
Laurence S. Creider
Head, Archives and Special Collections Dept.
University Library
New Mexico State University
Las Cruces, NM 88003
Work: 575-646-4756
Fax: 575-646-7477
[log in to unmask]

On Mon, September 23, 2013 7:00 am, Cannan, Judith wrote:
> All,
>
> I am making a request that if you are going to change the subject of the
> email and go onto another topic you change the subject line. Sorry, I
> find it confusing. Also if I wish to put something in a folder, then when
> I go back I cannot find it because the subject line does not relate to the
> topic under discussion.
>
> Many thanks for considering this request.
>
> Judith
> From: Program for Cooperative Cataloging [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> On Behalf Of Robert Maxwell
> Sent: Friday, September 20, 2013 6:44 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [PCCLIST] NACO Training Materials on CLW page
>
> This is nothing new with RDA. Under AACR2 NACO practice was always to
> qualify “Works” or “Selections”; previous practice was to use the
> date of publication as a qualifier. We have always differentiated these
> collective titles. This is because different “selections” are, in
> fact, different works, since they are almost invariably different
> groupings. Both in AACR2 and in RDA, when different works wind up with the
> same title the title needs to be qualified.
>
> With RDA came the opportunity to use a different qualifier than the year.
> It seems to me that the year of publication is the least helpful to users.
> Furthermore, the year of a manifestation is not necessarily the date of
> the expression or work.
>
> I did the PDQ Bach records. In my judgment (and this is a cataloger
> judgment decision), the title of the manifestation containing the
> compilation was the most sensible way of differentiating. For the reasons
> listed above I didn’t want to use the unhelpful date of the publication.
> It is certainly possible to disagree with my judgment, but my choice was
> legitimate, I believe.
>
> I realize also that there has been discussion of the utility (or not) of
> these “conventional collective titles.” Many seem not to like them
> (although, again, they’re nothing new to RDA). All I can say is, like
> them or not, they’re available and it’s perfectly legitimate to use
> them. And they are in fact a good way of organizing the file—somebody
> approaching the database looking for an author’s short stories, or a
> composer’s works, might not know the name of any exact titles, so using
> conventional collective titles such as “Short stories” or “Works”
> or “Works. Selections” is in fact helpful.
>
> Bob
>
> Robert L. Maxwell
> Ancient Languages and Special Collections Cataloger
> 6728 Harold B. Lee Library
> Brigham Young University
> Provo, UT 84602
> (801)422-5568
>
> "We should set an example for all the world, rather than confine ourselves
> to the course which has been heretofore pursued"--Eliza R. Snow, 1842.
>
> From: Program for Cooperative Cataloging [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> On Behalf Of Kevin M Randall
> Sent: Friday, September 20, 2013 8:38 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: NACO Training Materials on CLW page
>
> Chuck, are you saying that the following three access points would be
> sufficient to identify three different resources:
>
> Bach, P. D. Q., 1742-1807. Works. Selections
>
> Bach, P. D. Q., 1742-1807. Works. Selections
>
> Bach, P. D. Q., 1742-1807. Works. Selections
>
> The first being for "1712 overture & other musical assaults", the second
> for "A little nightmare music; Octoot; Royal firewater musick"; and the
> third for "Jekyll & Hyde tour".
>
> Because that's what it looks like you are saying in the sentence "I would
> be happy with Works. Selections applying to all three of these
> collections."
>
> Kevin M. Randall
> Principal Serials Cataloger
> Northwestern University Library
> [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> (847) 491-2939
>
> Proudly wearing the sensible shoes since 1978!
>
> From: Program for Cooperative Cataloging
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]]<mailto:[mailto:[log in to unmask]]>
> On Behalf Of Herrold, Charles
> Sent: Friday, September 20, 2013 7:44 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: [PCCLIST] NACO Training Materials on CLW page
>
> Amy Turner makes some excellent observations. I found an
> extraordinary set of “aggregate work” ARs while doing some
> cataloging maintenance yesterday:
>
> 046 ǂk 1989
> 1001 Bach, P. D. Q., ǂd 1742-1807. ǂt Works. ǂk Selections (1712
> overture & other musical assaults)
> 380 Aggregate work
> 4001 Bach, P. D. Q., ǂd 1742-1807. ǂt 1712 overture & other musical
> assaults
> 4001 Bach, P. D. Q., ǂd 1742-1807. ǂt 1712 overture and other musical
> assaults
> 4001 Schickele, Peter. ǂt Selections ǂw nnea
> 667 Includes: 1712 overture : S. 1712; Bach portrait; Capriccio La
> pucelle de New Orleans = The maid of New Orleans : S. under 18; Minuet
> militaire : S. 1A; Prelude to Einstein on the fritz : S. e=mt2; The
> preachers of Crimetheus : ballet in one selfless act : S. 988.
> 670 1712 overture & other musical assaults, 1989
>
>
> 046 ǂk 1983
> 1001 Bach, P. D. Q., ǂd 1742-1807. ǂt Works. ǂk Selections (A little
> nightmare music ; Octoot ; Royal firewater musick)
> 380 Aggregate work
> 4001 Bach, P. D. Q., ǂd 1742-1807. ǂt Little nightmare music ; Octoot ;
> Royal firewater musick
> 4001 Schickele, Peter. ǂt Selections ǂw nnea
> 667 Includes: A little nightmare music ; Octoot ; Royal firewater musick
> 670 LCCN 85-755075: Schickele, P. A little nightmare music ; Octoot ;
> Royal firewater musick [SR] p1983.
>
> 046 ǂk 2007
> 1001 Bach, P. D. Q., ǂd 1742-1807. ǂt Works. ǂk Selections (Jekyll &
> Hyde tour)
> 380 Aggregate work
> 4001 Bach, P. D. Q., ǂd 1742-1807. ǂt Jekyll & Hyde tour
> 4001 Bach, P. D. Q., ǂd 1742-1807. ǂt Jekyll and Hyde tour
> 667 Includes works by P.D.Q. Bach and Peter Schickele: Long live the king
> / P.D.Q. Bach ; Four Next-to-Last songs: Das kleines Birdie, Der
> Cowboykönig, Gretchen am Spincycle, Es war ein dark und shtormy Night /
> P.D.Q. Bach ; String quartet in F major (The Moose): Allegro ma non
> troposphere, Largo alla Fargo, Menuetto no sweato, Grave e molto deepo,
> Allegro con brie / P.D.Q. Bach ; Two rounds: Hedi McKinley, D'Indy's
> Turkey / Peter Schickele ; Two P.D.Q. Bach rounds: The Mule, O serpent /
> P.D.Q. Bach ; Two songs: If love is real, Cyndi / Peter Schickele ; Songs
> from Shakespeare: Macbeth's soliloquy, Hamlet's soliloquy, The three
> witches from Macbeth, Juliet's soliloquy, Funeral oration from "Julius
> Caesar" / Peter Schickele ; Listen here, Tyrannosaurus Rex / Peter
> Schickele.
> 670 The Jekyll & Hyde tour, 2007.
>
> I just don’t see the purpose of such differentiation, especially for
> the second case, which lacks a collective title. OK, I’ll confess
> that I don’t understand the difference between an aggregate work and
> a compilation, but whatever the FRBR niceties of that involve, I would
> be happy with Works. Selections applying to all three of these
> collections. I do understand that these records were created by a
> library that was one of the early adopters of RDA and they might
> represent experiments that demonstrate the capabilities of RDA to
> differentiate such resources.
> In our catalog we have three such P.D.Q. aggregates, the first cited
> above, plus The dreaded P.D.Q. Bach collection and The ill-conceived
> P.D.Q. Bach anthology. Obviously the latter two would qualify for
> name-title records as well, but we will keep them under Works.
> Selections.
>
> Chuck Herrold
>
>