I would think you'd need to constantly tweak the Izotope software because the time constant wouldn't 
be, well, constant. Print-through is layer-to-layer, so as the tape unwinds, the distance between 
layers decreases and thus the echo time decreases. I do think very tasteful use of gating is the 
best way to handle this problem, especially for less-complex source material such as a single voice. 
You won't get rid of it, but you might make it less anooying without too badly screwing up the 
dynamics of the voice performance.

As for fast-winding a couple of times to reduce print-through, I've done that for old pre-recorded 
tapes stored for decades tightly wound and, while the print-through is far from eliminated, it seems 
to be manageably annoying.

This discussion once again makes me question the sanity of those who wax nostalgic about magnetic 
tape in today's age of high-resolution digital.

-- Tom Fine

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Richard L. Hess" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2013 7:28 PM
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Advice needed on removing / minimizing tape bleed-through


> Hi, Nigel,
>
> Yes, well, maybe, I dunno. Please note my weasel words. I have heard people tell of this which is 
> why I worded it "winding tapes back and forth a few times may also assist in reducing the print 
> through."
>
> Both magnetostriction and permanent magnet skimming are good suppositions. Anything that can upset 
> the "thermal idiot" domains would be useful. In fact, moving it back and forth in the 0.5 G field 
> of the earth could be useful--that could be a form of skimming even if no components are 
> magnetized.
>
> Personally, I have not had much luck with any of the techniques. Matt's latest suggestion of 
> iZotope RX3 Advanced's Dereverb filter is interesting, too, but I don't think the time constants 
> can be stretched enough. It depends on the reel and hub diameter and the tape speed, too.
>
> It also depends on the strength of the bias field that activated the print through. I'm pretty 
> certain that print through is stronger in the presence of a bias field. Isn't that how some VHS 
> tapes were actually duplicated?
>
> The deeper one drills, the more complex every little thing seems to become in magnetic recording.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Richard
>
>
>
> On 2013-10-23 6:37 PM, Nigel Champion wrote:
>> Hi Richard
>>
>> By what mechanism does "winding the tape back and forth a few times" work?  Is it due to a 
>> magneto-strictive effect (which is exaggerated by B-wind) or is it from winding the tape across 
>> mildly-magnetised materials in the tape-path (somewhat akin to skimming)?
>>
>> It would be interesting make comparisons using the head-bypass feature of a Studer A810.
>>
>> Best wishes
>> Nigel
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf 
>> Of Richard L. Hess
>> Sent: Thursday, 24 October 2013 10:48 a.m.
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Advice needed on removing / minimizing tape bleed-through
>>
>> Hello, Josh,
>>
>> You are working with what is called "print through" and has been the scourge of tape recording 
>> from the beginning.
>>
>> Technically, there are magnetic domains that are easily flipped. The magnetism from the adjoining 
>> layer and perhaps a bias field (including the earth's magnetism) might have encouraged these 
>> easily-flipped domains to line up with the magnetic field from the underlying or overlying layers 
>> of tape. In either case, the field has to go through one layer of tape to cause this to happen.
>>
>> Some very loud "bangs" have been known to print through several layers of tape on the reel.
>>
>> Storing tape tails out tends to bias the print-through process to be post-echo more than 
>> pre-echo, or so the theory goes and winding tapes back and forth a few times may also assist in 
>> reducing the print through.
>>
>> Some have suggested winding the tape in B-wind (oxide out) and leaving it for a while, I have not 
>> tried this.
>>
>> Not for the faint of heart, some success has been reported using permanent magnet partial erasure 
>> OF THE TAPE by a device you place against that tape as you wind it. This was made in the 50s or 
>> 60s by a tape manufacturer and I believe it came in two strengths. There was an Audio Engineering 
>> Society paper or preprint on it that I recall seeing years ago. You may search at aes.org in the 
>> library. "print through" is a good keyword, I would think.
>>
>> Finally, some versions of the Studer A820 incorporated controlled erasure called "skimming". I 
>> have never used it, but it works on the same principal, but uses the AC bias (high frequency) 
>> signal to do the partial erasure.
>>
>> So we're looking at randomly orienting the particles that were easily reoriented in storage to 
>> mirror the adjacent layers of tape.
>>
>> Obviously, any of the intentional partial-erasure techniques, if over-applied, could have 
>> devastating effects to the recording.
>>
>> Good luck with this.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Richard
>>
> Richard L. Hess                   email: [log in to unmask] Aurora, Ontario, Canada 
> 647 479 2800 http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- 
> even from hard-to-play tapes.
>
>