LISTSERV mailing list manager LISTSERV 16.0

Help for PCCLIST Archives


PCCLIST Archives

PCCLIST Archives


[email protected]


View:

Message:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Topic:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Author:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

Font:

Proportional Font

LISTSERV Archives

LISTSERV Archives

PCCLIST Home

PCCLIST Home

PCCLIST  November 2013

PCCLIST November 2013

Subject:

Re: subjective opinions buried in the new fields on NARs - open season?

From:

Ted P Gemberling <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Program for Cooperative Cataloging <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Fri, 29 Nov 2013 01:59:23 +0000

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (76 lines)

John and everyone, 
"Self-proclaimed Messiah," since it is not the same as "Pseudo-Messiah," as John and Richard pointed out, seems to be a kind of "folksonomy" term.  I would say that usually when we call someone a "self-proclaimed Messiah," we are implying that he really isn't one, but they are not strictly to be equated. A real Messiah could proclaim himself. 

However, it's not the job of catalogers to decide who real and unreal Messiahs are. I think that is one principle we should observe: as catalogers we help scholars find resources, but the scholars are the ones who go through the resources and draw conclusions from them. Loaded terms should be avoided in cataloging and authority records unless they are well established by scholarship, which requires quite a bit of time. 

I'm glad to see that someone removed "Self-proclaimed Messiah" from Moon's authority. 

Perhaps this is an argument for using controlled vocabulary as much as possible in fields like the 374 and 368. It's unwise to cut and paste terms from sources when they might  be offensive to someone. But I still doubt that the "skinny, lovable nerd" description in a 670 is offensive. Information in a 670 isn't really categorizing someone as a 368 or 374 does.  

As for Moon as a self-proclaimed Messiah, this page, sponsored by Moon's church, says he considered himself to have "completed" the work of the Messiah. But I don't think it exactly says he was a Messiah. I think it's risky to use the term for him without that precise claim. 
http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Sun_Myung_Moon

Happy holiday!

Ted 
-----Original Message-----
From: Program for Cooperative Cataloging [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of john g marr
Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2013 5:16 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [PCCLIST] subjective opinions buried in the new fields on NARs - open season?

On Wed, 27 Nov 2013, Ted P Gemberling wrote:

> I think the "subjective information"  on Knotts isn't as bad as that for Moon.

  Perhaps we could hinge consideration of such 670 information on how necessary it is to identify the person being described.

> But to call Moon a "self-proclaimed [or pseudo-] messiah" is openly 
> contemptuous of the church he founded.

  I wouldn't equate "self-proclaimed" with "pseudo- ."

  Actually it's quite accurate. Moon wrote a book called The Divine Principle in which he (the author, Moon) states that he (Moon) was sent from the East to be the Messiah and finish Jesus' mission. He was not declared as a messiah by anyone before that time, or before his time.

>  Though "pseudo-messiahs" is an established LCSH heading, it strikes 
> me that it would only be safe to use it after a period of decades, at 
> least, after the death of the person.

  I would expect that LC would only apply the term to persons generally and BEST known as such.

  Interesting point: I noticed that a key part of a common definition of "messiah" is that such a person be "anticipated" or "expected." That would not apply to Moon, but it might apply to Hernan Cortez. :)

> In a shorter time frame, the description would be controversial.

  The term "messiah" itself is, as is any religious doctrine, by its very nature "controversial", as discussion of who would kill Jesus if he returned indicates.

> I think it might be impossible to make hard and fast rules about this 
> sort of thing.

  Again, I'd suggest including in 670s only information that aids in identifying the person involved. Rather than considering "subjective" data "controversial", judge it as to whether it is useful for the purpose of an authority record.

> It's a matter of "cataloger judgment", as we've long been told. But 
> catalogers do need to have good judgment!

  What is more subjective than determining whether a person possesses "good judgment"?

  How about rephrasing that to suggest that a "good" cataloger be objective, and then discuss "goodness" with regard to the nature of objectivity?

  Ahem. If only we took the effort to set identifiable parameters for objectivity and required the same in politics and of the media... or is it counter to "human nature" to do so?

Cheers!

jgm

  John G. Marr
  Cataloger
  CDS, UL
  Univ. of New Mexico
  Albuquerque, NM 87131
  [log in to unmask]
  [log in to unmask]

     ** Forget the "self"; forget the "other"; just consider what goes on in between. **

Opinions belong exclusively to the individuals expressing them, but sharing is permitted.

Top of Message | Previous Page | Permalink

Advanced Options


Options

Log In

Log In

Get Password

Get Password


Search Archives

Search Archives


Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Subscribe or Unsubscribe


Archives

March 2024
February 2024
January 2024
December 2023
November 2023
October 2023
September 2023
August 2023
July 2023
June 2023
May 2023
April 2023
March 2023
February 2023
January 2023
December 2022
November 2022
October 2022
September 2022
August 2022
July 2022
June 2022
May 2022
April 2022
March 2022
February 2022
January 2022
December 2021
November 2021
October 2021
September 2021
August 2021
July 2021
June 2021
May 2021
April 2021
March 2021
February 2021
January 2021
December 2020
November 2020
October 2020
September 2020
August 2020
July 2020
June 2020
May 2020
April 2020
March 2020
February 2020
January 2020
December 2019
November 2019
October 2019
September 2019
August 2019
July 2019
June 2019
May 2019
April 2019
March 2019
February 2019
January 2019
December 2018
November 2018
October 2018
September 2018
August 2018
July 2018
June 2018
May 2018
April 2018
March 2018
February 2018
January 2018
December 2017
November 2017
October 2017
September 2017
August 2017
July 2017
June 2017
May 2017
April 2017
March 2017
February 2017
January 2017
December 2016
November 2016
October 2016
September 2016
August 2016
July 2016
June 2016
May 2016
April 2016
March 2016
February 2016
January 2016
December 2015
November 2015
October 2015
September 2015
August 2015
July 2015
June 2015
May 2015
April 2015
March 2015
February 2015
January 2015
December 2014
November 2014
October 2014
September 2014
August 2014
July 2014
June 2014
May 2014
April 2014
March 2014
February 2014
January 2014
December 2013
November 2013
October 2013
September 2013
August 2013
July 2013
June 2013
May 2013
April 2013
March 2013
February 2013
January 2013
December 2012
November 2012
October 2012
September 2012
August 2012
July 2012
June 2012
May 2012
April 2012
March 2012
February 2012
January 2012
December 2011
November 2011
October 2011
September 2011
August 2011
July 2011
June 2011
May 2011
April 2011
March 2011
February 2011
January 2011
December 2010
November 2010
October 2010
September 2010
August 2010
July 2010
June 2010
May 2010
April 2010
March 2010
February 2010
January 2010
December 2009
November 2009
October 2009
September 2009
August 2009
July 2009
June 2009
May 2009
April 2009
March 2009
February 2009
January 2009
December 2008
November 2008
October 2008
September 2008
August 2008
July 2008
June 2008
May 2008
April 2008
March 2008
February 2008
January 2008
December 2007
November 2007
October 2007
September 2007
August 2007
July 2007
June 2007
May 2007
April 2007
March 2007
February 2007
January 2007
December 2006
November 2006
October 2006
September 2006
August 2006
July 2006
June 2006
May 2006
April 2006
March 2006
February 2006
January 2006
December 2005
November 2005
October 2005
September 2005
August 2005
July 2005
June 2005
May 2005
April 2005
March 2005
February 2005
January 2005
December 2004
November 2004
October 2004
September 2004
August 2004
July 2004
June 2004
May 2004
April 2004
March 2004
February 2004
January 2004
December 2003
November 2003
October 2003
September 2003
August 2003
July 2003
June 2003
May 2003
April 2003
March 2003
February 2003
January 2003
December 2002
November 2002
October 2002
September 2002
August 2002
July 2002
June 2002
May 2002
April 2002
March 2002
February 2002
January 2002
December 2001
November 2001
October 2001
September 2001
August 2001
July 2001
June 2001
May 2001
April 2001
March 2001
February 2001
January 2001
December 2000
November 2000
October 2000
September 2000
August 2000
July 2000
June 2000
May 2000
April 2000
March 2000
February 2000
January 2000
December 1999
November 1999
October 1999
September 1999
August 1999
July 1999
June 1999
May 1999
April 1999
March 1999
February 1999
January 1999
December 1998
November 1998
October 1998
September 1998
August 1998
July 1998
June 1998
May 1998
April 1998
March 1998
February 1998
January 1998
December 1997
November 1997
October 1997

ATOM RSS1 RSS2



LISTSERV.LOC.GOV

CataList Email List Search Powered by the LISTSERV Email List Manager