Gutenberg Bibles are of value. We are not yet at that remove in time from the initial 78s, but if there are still humans 100 years from now, is it not conceivable that some would be interested in 'hearing it as it was first heard?'
--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 12/3/13, Tom Fine <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] steven barr
To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Tuesday, December 3, 2013, 7:55 PM
Hi David:
Still haven't fixed that reply-to setting, but anyway ...
I would advise your daughter to ask Salvation Army or
Goodwill or whatever is the Canadian
equivilent to take them away and handle the collector chaos.
A cherry-picking mahem session goes in
the class of "don't try this at home"! Maybe sweeten the
deal by promising the store that you will
alert the collector lists with which you communicate, so
they won't be stuck with hundreds of pounds
of records that no one will ever buy. Perhaps there is a
thrift store nearby affiliated with some
worthy charity in your local community, so your good deed
will directly benefit some of those who
live near your daughter (and thus, indirectly, improve her
quality of life under the theory of
social-good ripple effects). Maybe you and your daughter
could reach out now, while you're still in
good shape, and see which if any thrift stores might be
interested. In the least, it will be
educational because you can gauge the interest within easy
transport distance.
From a larger perspective, I wonder if the day will come
when shellac of anything with a surviving
metal or laquer master will be totally worthless. I note the
Sony and UMG donations (with many
strings attached) to the LOC. So what if the ideal day
comes, when all those metal parts and
lacquers have been cleaned and excellent transfers were made
and the high-resolution digital files
are easily accessible in the public domain? At the point,
why would anyone want an old shellac
pressing, which in theory should sound terrible compared to
the digital transfer from the metal or
laquer parts? I realize that many shellac-era records no
longer have metal parts or spotless
lacquers, but what about those that do? In theory, that
would free up a lot of bulk-storage space
for both collectors and archives, and those who accumulate
the worthless shellacs would be more
object-grabbers than collectors. Regarding the concept of
archiving and cultural legacy, I don't see
this as any different from having a good-condition master
tape but no remaining copies of the LP. Or
having multiple managed data farms full of the bits and
bytes that used to live on fragile U-Matic
1630 tapes or DATs.
-- Tom Fine
----- Original Message -----
From: "DAVID BURNHAM" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2013 6:09 PM
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] steven barr
> Well this is my dilemma too. I remember the thrill I've
felt many times as I've found treasure
> after treasure in Goodwill stores and their kind but if
my daughter just threw open the door and
> invited collectors to come and cherry pick through the
collection, they would leave her with total
> chaos - it would probably look like there were more
records when they were finished that when they
> started.
>
> db
>
>
>
> On , DAVID BURNHAM <[log in to unmask]>
wrote:
>
> My problem is that I have 10s of thousands of records -
most from the CBC record library whose 78s
> I acquired a couple of years ago and I have no idea
which are considered rare collectors' items.
> There are lots of jazz and country records in this
collection which might have some commercial
> value and others that have none. Now it's just me and
my daughter left and I've told her some
> organizations to contact when I'm gone, (including
ARSC), but have impressed her with the reality
> that most of the records are probably of no value and
that she'll probably have to pay someone to
> remove them. There are, of course, many which I value
highly but that's no reflection of their
> market value.
>>
>>
>>db
>>
>>
>>
>>On Tuesday, December 3, 2013 5:51:20 PM, John Haley
<[log in to unmask]>
wrote:
>>
>>My apologies to you, David Seubert, in my negative
comments about donating
>>>to schools. You are the rare enlightened
individual at an enlightened
>>>institution that understands the value of
collections and truly cares. I
>>>know lots of anecdotes about terrible
consequences when collections have
>>>been donated to schools. A good example is the
donation of Fritz Reiner's
>>>papers and score collection (and the funding
that went with it) to Columbia
>>>University, where the materials promptly
disappeared from view, with the
>>>money used for other purposes in complete
violation of the terms of the
>>>gift. This situation is well discussed in the
final chapter of Philip
>>>Hart's good Reiner biography. As the schools
know, years after the gift
>>>there is no one around who is likely to
challenge their violation of the
>>>terms of the gift, and there's all that cash
just sitting there, and
> the
>>>burning need for funding for the hot, trendy
project-of-the-month.
>>>
>>>Best,
>>>John Haley
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>On Tue, Dec 3, 2013 at 4:17 PM, Tom Fine <[log in to unmask]>wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Cary, David, Mike Gray, etc:
>>>>
>>>> The more we talk about this, I think this
topic is important enough for an
>>>> article or on-going series of briefs in the
ARSC Journal. Maybe something
>>>> akin to the copyright-law briefs. Estate
law changes all the time, which is
>>>> why I think a one-shot article may not be
as useful. However, an article
>>>> could cover issues from the collector
perspective (how to figure out what
>>>> to donate and what to leave out as flotsum
and jetsum; how to find a
>>>> willing recipient; how to bring family
members or friends into the process;
>>>> how to deal with an estate attorney
> probably not expert in your collection;
>>>> etc). It's also probably worth discussing,
the differences between a true
>>>> collection (which I would argue is
something that has been curated by a
>>>> collector with expertise in the subject
area, is somewhat focused and
>>>> contains at least some rare/valuable items
in excellent condition) vs an
>>>> accumulation (which is self-described but
what, in my experience, many call
>>>> a "collection").
>>>>
>>>> I wish I knew more about the legal issues
and the institutional
>>>> perspectives on the topics we're raising.
It would definitely help my own
>>>> planning, and I think it would be a great
service to ARSC members, in some
>>>> cases more than justifying membership.
>>>>
>>>> -- Tom Fine
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David
Seubert" <
>>>> [log in to unmask]>
>>>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2013 3:56 PM
>>>>
>>>> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] steven barr
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi Cary,
>>>>>
>>>>> I agree that this would be an important
session. I think that somebody
>>>>> from an institution on the curatorial
side should be on the panel, but I
>>>>> also think somebody from an
institutional major gifts office should be on
>>>>> the panel. Perhaps UNC has somebody on
staff that could appear? Our
>>>>> position is vacant now, but typically
our person is a lawyer who can
>>>>> actually help donors write bequest
language and weigh tax benefits. There
>>>>> can be significant tax benefits to
donors that I don't think are well
>>>>> understood.
> My example is that a dealer might pay ten cents on the
dollar
>>>>> for a collection (and probably cherry
pick), while a tax deduction would
>>>>> net a donor 20 cents on the dollar if
the donor is in a 20% tax bracket.
>>>>> That's real money, not just good will.
>>>>>
>>>>> I also think a dealer and a collector
should be on the panel though I'm
>>>>> not sure who would be willing.
>>>>>
>>>>> This is more common than some probably
realize. David Lennick also lost
>>>>> much of his collection two years ago in
a "storage wars" type situation. I
>>>>> think all the 78s found homes, but I
think his master tapes got sold for
>>>>> the scrap value of the flanges.
>>>>>
>>>>> If I can help in any way, let me know.
>>>>>
>>>>> David
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> David Seubert
>>>>> Head, Special Collections (Acting)
>>>>> UC Santa Barbara
> Library
>>>>> University of California
>>>>> Santa Barbara, CA 93106-9010
>>>>> Tel: 805-893-5444
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Association for Recorded Sound
Discussion List
>>>>> [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
On Behalf Of Cary Ginell
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2013 7:18
AM
>>>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>>>> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] steven barr
>>>>>
>>>>> My wife knows the value of my
collection, both historical as well as
>>>>> intrinsic, but we are torn as to
whether to auction or donate, and if the
>>>>> latter, to whom and when? It would be a
shame to find oneself in Mr.
>>>>> Barr's situation where desperation
often invites
> wholesale dumping just to
>>>>> get rid of it all.
>>>>>
>>>>> This subject needs to be addressed in a
panel discussion at the next ARSC
>>>>> conference. If anyone would like to
form a panel and draft a proposal, it
>>>>> would be welcomed. I'm program chair
for the 2014 conference and believe
>>>>> that this is a major concern for all
ARSC members and should be discussed.
>>>>> Who would like to take up the
challenge? The deadline for submitting
>>>>> proposals is fast approached (January
6).
>>>>>
>>>>> Cary Ginell
>>>>>
>>>>> On Dec 3, 2013, at 7:07 AM, John Haley
<[log in to unmask]>
wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> It's a real issue, and we should all
mark Tom's words. I have bought
>>>>>> collections and particpated in
clean-outs for relatives and others,
>>>>>> and
> believe me, the real enemy of the great collection is
the
>>>>>> dumpster. That is where a lot of
them go. My goal is to skinny down
>>>>>> what I have while I am alive, and
then leave some kind of list or
>>>>>> markings of what is really
valuable. To the non-collectors in our
>>>>>> families who have tolerated our
collections for years, it is usually all
>>>>>>
>>>>> junk to be got rid of.
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>> John Haley
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Dec 3, 2013 at 9:07 AM,
eugene hayhoe <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I, when I walk into my basement,
feel like 'what a lucky guy.' My
>>>>>>> wife, OTOH, goes 'OMG!' and
mostly won't even
> come down here.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The concern I have is finding
the spot where 'she gets the most
>>>>>>> value' and 'the recordings,
etc. end up in the right places' meet -
>>>>>>> most dealers have personal
financial interests, and the moving 'would
>>>>>>> not be a quick, casual job.'
I've suggested more than once that she
>>>>>>> 'hire someone to open a
temporary store' as the best way to
>>>>>>> liquidate, but she doesn't
display much enthusiasm, despite the quite
>>>>>>> profitable nature of that idea.
One friend could be interested in
>>>>>>> some, but has his own space
issues of the same nature. As a retired
>>>>>>> college faculty member, I
wouldn't trust much of any school to 'use
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> them appropriately.'
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I've also told her that 'if
Koester is
> still around when that time
>>>>>>> comes, he'd probably be
interested.'
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And in NO way is that a dis;
only spoke to him once, but 'have been
>>>>>>> appreciating his efforts in
preserving American music for over 45
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> years.'
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Gene
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
--------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> On Tue, 12/3/13, Tom Fine
<[log in to unmask]>
wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] steven
barr
>>>>>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>>>>>> Date: Tuesday, December 3,
> 2013, 8:03 AM
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> One lesson that can be learned
is
>>>>>>> that we who collect should
explore, while we are healthy, vital and
>>>>>>> with full faculties, who might
want to inherit our collections. Is
>>>>>>> there an institution or archive
we trust, and is interested? Another
>>>>>>> collector? Would we like to
pre-arrange an auction with an expert in
>>>>>>> the topic areas where we focus
our collection? Don't assume spouses
>>>>>>> or children or friends know or
care about your collection, unless you
>>>>>>> have included them in it and
they have expressed interest.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Having inherited a few
collections of records and vintage audio gear,
>>>>>>> I will say that it is never an
easy process because of the bulk,
>>>>>>> logistics, storage and other
> issues.
>>>>>>> There is always expense and
time-burden put on the person taking over
>>>>>>> the collection, so make sure
that person wants the collection enough
>>>>>>> to put in the time and put up
the money. In my case, it helped very
>>>>>>> much in the cases where the
collection was well-documented. It also
>>>>>>> helped that two of the
collections had been introduced to me
>>>>>>> gradually, with detailed
explaination from the original owners. In
>>>>>>> fact I treasure those times,
with people I respected and cared for
>>>>>>> explaining something they loved
and about which they knew a great
>>>>>>> deal, more than I treasure the
actual items.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In the other cases, it was "hey
I know you like this kind of stuff
>>>>>>> and we need to clean out XX's
house so we can sell it, if you'll
> come
>>>>>>> and take it away you can have
it." In those cases, I was much more
>>>>>>> likely to sell off pieces in
order to cover my logistics and storage
>>>>>>> expenses, very soon after
taking possession. I do not regret any of
>>>>>>> those sales, because some very
nice items passed into hands that
>>>>>>> appreciate and use them today.
In these cases, I have passed back all
>>>>>>> other sales proceeds to the
people generous enough to call me rather
>>>>>>> than put stuff in the dumpster
or turn it over to an estate-sale hack
>>>>>>> to get pennies on the dollar of
the true values. Net-net, I ended up
>>>>>>> keeping fewer items from these
collections, but it's nice to have
>>>>>>> those things.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The final case I've been
involved in was my friend, 10 years my
>>>>>>> junior, who
> died suddenly earlier this year. His father needed
help
>>>>>>> assessing his house-full of
audio gear, tapes and records, and
>>>>>>> finding buyers for what had
monetary value and takers for the rest.
>>>>>>> We managed to get 90% of it
sold and given away, and the rest really
>>>>>>> was dumpster junk. I bought
some equipment items, which I am happy to
>>>>>>> have, and his father gave me
his records and tapes, which I am very
>>>>>>> pleased to have and will remind
me of my good friend gone too soon.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The point of this is, if you
care about what happens to your
>>>>>>> collection when you're gone,
you need to be proactive. The best time
>>>>>>> to be proactive is when you
have the energy and the presence of mind
>>>>>>> to do it, ie not at the very
end. You can't take it with you, and
> you
>>>>>>> must assume that no one else
values it and nothing good will happen
>>>>>>> to it unless you make
preparations and enlist allies who will outlive
>>>>>>> you.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -- Tom Fine
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
From: "eugene hayhoe"
>>>>>>> <[log in to unmask]
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 03,
2013 7:26 AM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] steven
barr
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> All that work collecting and
organizing for naught? A
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> shame.
> Hope they ended up with 'someone who appreciates what
they
>>>>>>> have.'
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
--------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>> On Mon, 12/2/13, Dave
Burnham <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST]
steven barr
>>>>>>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>>>>>>> Date: Monday, December 2,
2013, 9:00 PM
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> David Lennick is your best
bet,
>>>>>>>> however I'm not sure he has
the info either. I
> don't
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> think
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> there is an e-mail address
because the reason he
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> stopped
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> posting on 78L was because
he didn't have a computer.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> He may
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> well be out of reach. I
understand his records have
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> been
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> liquidated to cover debts
owing.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> db
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Dec 2, 2013, at 8:43 PM,
David Seubert
>>>>>>>>> <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Anybody heard from
Steve Barr lately and have a
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> current
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> contact email? The
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> email I have for him
bounces.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> David
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
|