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ARSCLIST  February 2014

ARSCLIST February 2014

Subject:

Re: Computer desktop power speakers recommendation

From:

Nathan Coy <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Thu, 20 Feb 2014 19:51:12 -0800

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (258 lines)

I personally prefer roto-toms. Sometimes you can make doits with them...

But otherwise Kent Kennans book on orchestration lists bass drums as
un-pitched and they are notated on a single line. I think where the
confusion comes in is that I often have seen and heard percussionists
adjust the head tensions on un-pitched percussion by tapping next to a
given lug and then hearing a "pitch" and working their way around usually
in a star pattern to find a consistent tension on the drum head. But hold
on I am going to digress from this. I like the overtone series observation.

 Then there is this "lowest free ringing "singing" pitch level" from the
bass drum section of the pearl concert percussion tuning guide, Oddly
enough it does suggest a target pitch range for the snare drum heads...

http://pearldrum.com/media/education/concert-drum-tuning.pdf

 and then there is this little article with something at the end.

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/aug10/articles/drum-tuning.htm

I also am pretty sure there are some bass drums used in drum and bugle
corps and possibly other situations that are set up to be tuned to a pitch.

Such as

http://www.remo.com/portal/pages/drumming/product_tips/Ask+The+Experts2.html



"

QUESTION:  This question is for Bret Kuhn.
I think that the concert bass drum sound of the Cavaliers is the best of
any I have ever heard. I just love it! What size drums, head type and
tuning scheme do you employ to get that fantastic sound? Also what tuning
schemes do you employ in the battery? Do you tune to specific pitches or
just relative intervals?

Thank You
Matt

BRET'S REPLY:
Hey Matt,
Thanks for asking about the tuning scheme for the concert bass drums and
the battery. We do have specific pitches for tuning all of the membrane
instruments. The concert bass drums are 40" and are tuned to a C#, the
batter head is a Fiberskyn III and the resonant side is white plastic.
Often times people tune the concert basses too low and they don't resonate
properly. As far as the battery goes, here is the tuning scheme for this
past year. The snare tops are white max and tuned to an A and the bottoms
are the 3-mil thin plastic/clear (SA-0314-TD) and they were tuned to a D#.
With the tenors we used Suede Emperor Crimplock on everything except the
shots and there we used the clear Emperors. The pitches are as follows-
14"-B, 13"-D#, 12"-F#, 10"-A, and for the two 6" shots the low was a B and
the high was a D#. The bass drums used Ambassadors (BR-12XX-MP) for heads
and were tune in perfect 4th's. 32"-D#, 28"-G#, 24"-C#, 20"-F#, 16#-B. We
really strive to create a sonority with all of the battery voices and
tuning changes from year to year depending on the musical needs of the
group. I hope this helps and gets you thinking about what you want to hear
from your drums.

Take care,

Bret Kuhn
Percussion Arranger Cavaliers Drum and Bugle Corps.  "

Doit...nuance.

so it goes.

Nathan




On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 7:20 PM, Nathan Coy <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> I personally prefer roto-toms. Sometimes you can make doits with them...
>
> But otherwise Kent Kennans book on orchestration lists bass drums as
> un-pitched and they are notated on a single line. I think where the
> confusion comes in is that I often have seen and heard percussionists
> adjust the head tensions on un-pitched percussion by tapping next to a
> given lug and then hearing a "pitch" and working their way around usually
> in a star pattern to find a consistent tension on the drum head. But hold
> on I am going to digress from this. I like the overtone series observation.
>
> Then there is this "lowest free ringing "singing" pitch level" from the
> bass drum section of the pearl concert percussion tuning guide, Oddly
> enough it does suggest a target pitch range for the snare drum heads...
>
> http://pearldrum.com/media/education/concert-drum-tuning.pdf
>
>
> and then there is this little article with something at the end.
>
> http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/aug10/articles/drum-tuning.htm
>
> I also am pretty sure there are some bass drums used in drum and bugle
> corps and possibly other situations that are set up to be tuned to a pitch.
>
> Such as
>
>
> http://www.remo.com/portal/pages/drumming/product_tips/Ask+The+Experts2.html
>
>
> "
>
>
> *QUESTION:  This question is for Bret Kuhn. **I think that the concert
> bass drum sound of the Cavaliers is the best of any I have ever heard. I
> just love it! What size drums, head type and tuning scheme do you employ to
> get that fantastic sound? Also what tuning schemes do you employ in the
> battery? Do you tune to specific pitches or just relative intervals?*
>
>
> *Thank You Matt*
>
> *BRET'S REPLY:*
> Hey Matt,
> Thanks for asking about the tuning scheme for the concert bass drums and
> the battery. We do have specific pitches for tuning all of the membrane
> instruments. The concert bass drums are 40" and are tuned to a C#, the
> batter head is a Fiberskyn III and the resonant side is white plastic.
> Often times people tune the concert basses too low and they don't resonate
> properly. As far as the battery goes, here is the tuning scheme for this
> past year. The snare tops are white max and tuned to an A and the bottoms
> are the 3-mil thin plastic/clear (SA-0314-TD) and they were tuned to a D#.
> With the tenors we used Suede Emperor Crimplock on everything except the
> shots and there we used the clear Emperors. The pitches are as follows-
> 14"-B, 13"-D#, 12"-F#, 10"-A, and for the two 6" shots the low was a B and
> the high was a D#. The bass drums used Ambassadors (BR-12XX-MP) for heads
> and were tune in perfect 4th's. 32"-D#, 28"-G#, 24"-C#, 20"-F#, 16#-B. We
> really strive to create a sonority with all of the battery voices and
> tuning changes from year to year depending on the musical needs of the
> group. I hope this helps and gets you thinking about what you want to hear
> from your drums.
>
> Take care,
>
> Bret Kuhn
> Percussion Arranger Cavaliers Drum and Bugle Corps.  "
>
> Doit...nuance.
>
> so it goes.
>
> Nathan
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 6:20 PM, DAVID BURNHAM <[log in to unmask]>wrote:
>
>> I'm going to have to differ.  Look up any of the many sights on the web
>> and you'll see that there are two kinds of percussion instruments -
>> definite pitch, (xylophones, Marimbas, Glockenspiels, Celestes, piano if
>> you want to call it a percussion instrument, tympani), and indefinite
>> pitch, (snare drums, bass drums, tambourines, triangle, wood block,
>> cymbals, tam tam, etc.).  Certainly the fundamental tone of a bass drum
>> will have a pitch but the overtones are not harmonically related to this
>> fundamental which leads to the unpitched sound.  Certainly percussionists
>> spend a lot of time adjusting these instruments but they aren't tuning
>> them, they're more likely trying to get rid of any pitched sound.  I have
>> recorded choral selections where a triangle with a pitch has been a real
>> problem because the choir gravitates towards that pitch.  I have seen
>> countless percussion scores and never have I seen an indication that a bass
>> drum or snare drum should
>>  have a specific pitch.  I played percussion in orchestras and bands many
>> years ago so I also have some experience in this area.
>>
>> db
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, February 20, 2014 12:18:47 PM, John Haley <
>> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>
>> Something to keep in mind on the topic of bass and small drivers is that
>> >sometimes what you are hearing for deep bass tones is really the first
>> >harmonic an octave higher, which is often strong and can sometimes "mask"
>> >as the real thing where it is reproduced strongly but the deep
>> fundamental
>> >tone is actually missing.  Our ears can be fooled into thinking that the
>> >real bottom tone is there.
>> >
>> >For me, nothing compares to a real subwoofer.  For many popular small
>> >speaker systems, what they are calling the subwoofer is really the
>> woofer.
>> >The other great benefit of using a real sub, which I think still pertains
>> >in today's world, is that whatever driver is handling the midrange will
>> >often perform with a lot more clarity if that same driver does not have
>> to
>> >move in and out a inch or so to produce the lower tones, while at the
>> same
>> >time struggling to produce the much shorter wavelengths of midrange
>> tones.
>> >
>> >As Tom said, bass tones can be very directional, but our sense of where
>> the
>> >bass tones are coming from can be largely determined by their harmonics,
>> >including those generated by the attack of the note.  These harmonics are
>> >often high enough to be directional.  They ought to be picked up by the L
>> >and R speakers if reasonably full range.  I don't know what happens when
>> it
>> >all passes thru a bass-management stage of a modern A-V amp.
>> >
>> >Best,
>> >John Haley
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 10:58 AM, Frank Strauss <[log in to unmask]>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Hi Tom-In response to what David said about bass drums not having a
>> >> definite pitch, I can tell you from the experience of playing in the
>> drum
>> >> corps of a bagpipe band, that bass drums, as well as tenor and snare
>> drums
>> >> most certainly have pitches, and much time is spent in the very good
>> bands
>> >> with harmonizing the drum corps with the pipe corps.  This isn't going
>> to
>> >> help you, because it is hopelessly out of production, but I use an
>> Altec
>> >> Lansing ACS45.1 powered computer speaker system.  It has a right and
>> left
>> >> speaker and a sub woofer that sits under the desk.  It sounds very
>> nice to
>> >> my ears.  I have used it for PP shows and it fills a room nicely, and
>> >> people comment on the sound quality.  It makes sitting at the computer
>> much
>> >> more pleasant.  It was succeeded by ACS340, which is around, but also
>> out
>> >> of production, I think.  I bought a Klipsch G 17 Air, to use with a
>> >> laptop.  Amazon has it for $204, and they say it has a list of $549.
>> It is
>> >> quite an awful little unit.  The only thing nice about it is that it's
>> >> bluetooth.  No bass, no separation, and very volume limited.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Frank B Strauss, DMD
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>

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