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ARSCLIST  February 2014

ARSCLIST February 2014

Subject:

Re: Looking for some advice on how to sell some rare tapes

From:

John Haley <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Mon, 10 Feb 2014 11:12:33 -0500

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (246 lines)

All good thoughts, but the question was could the tape be sold for a good
price, and the answer to that might well be yes.  It is always possible
that the tape is a copy of something that the "majors" (Sony or CBC)
already have,something that would be useful to know, even to sell it.  I
agree with Tom about the potential market of collectors for this tape; but
you never know.  Gould is a beloved figure to only a small group of
collectors, I think.  The mainstream was never his bastion, even when
alive, and that would still be true.  I recall a funny quip about him from
years past, and I wish I could remember who said it.  Somebody said they
couldn't figure out if this nut was a genius, or whether this genius was a
nut.  That is of course unfair to Gould, who was at least a quite troubled
personality, as well as a brilliant but extremely erratic musician.

If you were thinking of issuing this yourself, and you did it in Canada, I
wouldn't lose a lot of sleep over possible litigation in Canada.  No
responsible lawyer (or profit-minded lawyer, which all of us are) would
take that case over material that is clearly in public domain. .There are
limitations for where such a product made from this tape can be sold, but
that doesn't stop an awful lot of vendors from selling them on websites and
elsewhere.  Internet sales are the "great leveler" for the copyright mayhem
that exists in the US, cancelling a lot of it out on a practical level.
 But you don't want to be in the position of the direct seller in that
situation if you are located in the US.  There can be no doubt that
Canada's sensible approach to public domain is the reason we have a lot of
historical material available that is available. Sadly, for the most part
the major record companies don't really even know what they have, much less
care, with a few enlightened and laudable exceptions.

Best,
John Haley






On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 10:48 AM, Roger Kulp <[log in to unmask]>wrote:

> Just curious,is this tape different from recordings broadcast by the CBC?I
> have several transcription records by Gould from the 50s,that are different
> from commercial recordings.CBC probably has kept a copy or two of each
> transcription or the masters.Transcription records are  different from
> actual studio tapes,though. I know the CBC has a Glenn Gould archive,and
> has put out a few DVDs of Gould.One might argue these DVDs were copyright
> extension product.This tape is technically the property of the
> CBC,especially if the tape box,and spools have CBC markings on it.It would
> be very much like if someone gave you an original Columbia master tape of
> an unissued recording.The tape would belong to Sony.What I would suggest is
> you contact someone at CBC and offer to give the tape back to them.Maybe
> you have the only copy of a tape missing from their archive.
>
> Roger
>
> > Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2014 06:45:10 -0500
> > From: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Looking for some advice on how to sell some rare
> tapes
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> >
> > If it were me, no matter what the (unclear) copyright status really is,
> I'd have to judge very
> > carefully if there is market enough to pay my lawyer fees if the Glenn
> Gould estate comes after me.
> > Whether they have an ultimately successful case or not, litigation is
> expensive. If I had that tape,
> > I would approach Sony Music, which has reissued much Gould material in
> recent times, and see if they
> > will lease the tape from me, assuming they are interested in reissuing
> it. Remember that Gould was a
> > somewhat irratic artist, and your tape may hold a mediocre or poor
> performance of no interest to
> > anyone except the small nice of Gould-obsessives (which is not a
> commercial market and therefore not
> > something on which to build a viable business plan).
> >
> > There is no big pot of gold at the end of the rainbow of a tape like
> that, despite what excited
> > people not of the record business told the person who originally posted.
> There may be a
> > moderate-sized pot, which he will have to split either between a record
> company that will lease the
> > tape, obtain the rights and release the material into
> known/proven-effective distribution channels,
> > or with a lawyer who will fight those who come after him while he tries
> to "indy" release something
> > with a somewhat niche market and diffuse and confusing
> retail/distribution systems. I would always
> > opt for the big company because they would then bear the copyright
> burdens. I would take the
> > one-time lease fee and take along someone whose company I enjoy to the
> few nice dinners it would
> > buy, and drink a toast to my late friend Gould.
> >
> > -- Tom Fine
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "John Haley" <[log in to unmask]>
> > To: <[log in to unmask]>
> > Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2014 10:13 PM
> > Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Looking for some advice on how to sell some rare
> tapes
> >
> >
> > > People make all kinds of assumptions when it comes to copyright
> issues, and
> > > there is a lot of lore that is not law.  An artist could make a gift
> of the
> > > "IT" rights buried in the physical manifestation of a recording, if
> that is
> > > what occurred, and the rights would not be in his/her estate.  And
> Gould
> > > was Canadian. If someone issued these recordings in Canada, they would
> have
> > > hit public domain in 50 years, and the other questions are irrelevant.
>  I
> > > don't know when the recordings were made, but if before 1964, they may
> be
> > > fair game if issued in Canada.  With that in mind, they could possibly
> be
> > > very valuable.
> > >
> > > Best,
> > > John Haley
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sun, Feb 9, 2014 at 10:01 PM, Julian Antos <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
> > >
> > >> Thanks, I wasn't trying to rustle any feathers, merely curious.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On Sun, Feb 9, 2014 at 8:58 PM, DAVID BURNHAM <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> > Having worked at CBC for many years, I also have a lot of tapes,
> > >> including
> > >> > some material by Glenn Gould which, although it may have been given
> to
> > >> me,
> > >> > I am not at liberty to sell or publish or permit to be broadcast.
>  A used
> > >> > tissue is not intellectual property.  There is also the matter of
> > >> > authenticity; I could put Glenn's name on any piano recording I
> might
> > >> have
> > >> > made and who could argue?  Since he never made any professional
> > >> recordings
> > >> > of Chopin, nobody knows what his Chopin would sound like.  The
> absence of
> > >> > his humming wouldn't be a clue because that was more of an emotional
> > >> > response to the music he was playing and I don't think he would
> feel that
> > >> > way towards Chopin.  The presence of the humming wouldn't tell you
> > >> anything
> > >> > either because after he died, I could easily collaborate with a
> pianist
> > >> and
> > >> > say, "let's make a recording of some Chopin and pass it off as Glenn
> > >> Gould.
> > >> >  By the way, you'll have to hum along.".  Having been a friend of
> Larry
> > >> >  Lake's for many years, I would trust that if he said it was by
> Glenn
> > >> > Gould, it probably was, but he also enjoyed a joke.
> > >> >
> > >> > db
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > On Sunday, February 9, 2014 9:41:04 PM, Julian Antos <
> [log in to unmask]
> > >> >
> > >> > wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > If they were in fact a gift how would the Gould estate have
> anything to
> > >> do
> > >> > >with them? Are they under copyright? Unless they are, shouldn't the
> > >> estate
> > >> > >have as much control under them as a piece of tissue Glenn Gould
> sneezed
> > >> > >in?
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > >On Sun, Feb 9, 2014 at 8:14 PM, Paul Stamler <[log in to unmask]>
> > >> wrote:
> > >> > >
> > >> > >> On 2/9/2014 6:15 PM, Alan Foljambe wrote:
> > >> > >>
> > >> > >>> I have some rare tapes that I would like to sell and thought
> some of
> > >> > the
> > >> > >>> people on this list might be able to provide me with some
> guidance.
> > >> > >>>
> > >> > >>> I have two 1/4" reel to reel tapes of Glenn Gould playing
> Chopin.
> > >> These
> > >> > >>> were bought from the estate of Larry Lake in Toronto, who was an
> > >> > engineer
> > >> > >>> who did work for CBC and a friend of Gould's. The tapes were
> probably
> > >> > >>> given
> > >> > >>> to Lake by Gould. As far as I know, these tapes have never been
> > >> > reproduced
> > >> > >>> or published.
> > >> > >>>
> > >> > >>> I've been told that these tapes could be worth a huge amount of
> money
> > >> > but
> > >> > >>> I'm cautious and somewhat dubious about this claim. Apparently
> tapes
> > >> of
> > >> > >>> Gould playing Chopin are far more rare than Bach, as he was a
> devotee
> > >> > of
> > >> > >>> Bach and didn't really even like Chopin.
> > >> > >>>
> > >> > >>> Any guidance you might want to provide about dealing with this
> > >> > situation
> > >> > >>> would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!
> > >> > >>>
> > >> > >>
> > >> > >> Those tapes were the property of Glenn Gould, and are now the
> property
> > >> > of
> > >> > >> his estate. Only they have the right to sell the tapes, or
> publish
> > >> them
> > >> > in
> > >> > >> any way.
> > >> > >>
> > >> > >> Peace,
> > >> > >> Paul
> > >> > >>
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >
> > >
>
>

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