LOL, 'toothpasted' or not, Metallica at any level 'sounds like torture to me.'
--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 3/11/14, Tom Fine <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Neil Young wants to take h igh-resoluti on FLAC audio recordings mainstrea m with Pono - Tech New s and Analysis
To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Tuesday, March 11, 2014, 6:56 AM
The worst example of toothpasting
ever was the last Metallica album (which still won a Grammy
for album art and was nominated for heavy metal categories
-- nice message about quality from the Grammy folks). The
RMS average level on that CD is -3dBfs and it's totally
clipped. It's so over-loud that it clips the analog stage of
most playback systems, clipping an already clipped waveform.
And when it's crunched to a lossy format, it clips further
because of all the digital overs created by the crunching
math and psycho-acoustic EQ stuff. Even sometimes hearing
damaged metal fans hate the sound of that album. Music-wise,
while it's not up to Metallica's prime standards, it was
their best album in years and could have stood as a very
powerful last stand against age and changing music/culture
trends. But it sounds so bad, I don't think it will be
remembered as something as good as the music.
The mastering guys tell me that the biggest problem with the
toothpasted stuff is that it's often delivered to them like
that. Once a digital file has been committed to
toothpasting, especially if it's done track by track, it
can't be undone. Even if the toothpaste commitment came in
the mixing, it's still an expensive and time-consuming
endeavor to go back and remix it with civilized dynamics.
The same is true with analog recordings, of course, and
toothpasting was not invented in the DAW world (nor in rock
music -- see Buddy Rich's 1970s Groove Merchant albums as an
example of super-compressed jazz production).
As I've said before, the thing that amazes me about
toothpasting is that the drummers -- usually the tough guys
in the band -- let the guitarists win and come out louder.
Toothpasting hurts electric guitars the least and drums the
most.
-- Tom Fine
----- Original Message ----- From: "Shai Drori" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2014 6:35 AM
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Neil Young wants to take h
igh-resoluti on FLAC audio recordings mainstrea m with Pono
- Tech New s and Analysis
> I actually had a client not pay me about a year ago for
a mastering job because it wasn't touthpasted. They went and
redid it with another engineer who did. And they had the
audacity (Spelling?) to use my mixes without paying for
them.
> Shai
> בתאריך 11/03/14 12:18 PM, ציטוט Tom Fine:
>> Yes. I lump them with record company hacks.
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Cham"
<[log in to unmask]>
>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>> Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 10:19 PM
>> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Neil Young wants to take h
igh-resoluti on FLAC audio recordings mainstrea m with Pono
- Tech New s and Analysis
>>
>>
>>> Let's not forget the producers in this. Back
when I was very active in recording, they were the main
proponents of louder is better.
>>>
>>> Bob Cham
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Apple, because it's Apple, hates FLAC and
refuses to allow it in iTunes. Meanwhile, Sony is belatedly
putting on a big push for native DSD, including a
hardware/marketing push. So it's likely to be muddled, SACD
vs DVD-A all over again. That said, anything to promote
higher-quality downloads is a Good Thing in my book. I
include in that Mastered for iTunes, but note that the vast
majority of material sold on iTunes was not well mastered or
well converted to the lossy format. Newer stuff, if it
carries the Mastered for iTunes certification is better.
>>>>
>>>> On another front, I'm seeing slight signs
of progress against terrible-sounding toothpaste MAKE IT
LOUDER mastering. Just the fact that the high-rez downloads
places are demanding reasonable dynamics is trickling down
to the CD mastering. I've now heard enough tales of woe from
mastering engineers -- "The Artist Made Me Do It" or "The
Record Company Suit Made Me Do It" -- that I tend to
believe them, that Make It Louder is completely the fault of
tin-eared artists and record company hacks. But that doesn't
make the results sound any better!
>>>>
>>>> --Tom Fine
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim
Stamps" <[log in to unmask]>
>>>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>>> Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 6:20 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Neil Young wants to
take h igh-resolution FLAC audio recordings mainstrea m with
Pono - Tech News and Analysis
>>>>
>>>>> I hope all the players update their
software so FLAC will play on everything, but unfortunately
it's not possible since many players (both software and
hardware) sold and/or distributed in the past cannot be
updated.
>>>>> Tim
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mar 10, 2014, at 4:42 PM, Steve
Greene wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> http://gigaom.com/2014/03/10/neil-young-wants-to-take-high-resolution-flac-audio-recordings-mainstream-with-pono/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Stay tuned...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Curious as to what kind of
mass-market penetration you can make at that
>>>>>> price-point. Is the audiophile
market alone enough?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Steve
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> !DSPAM:639,531e5abb44331637612606!
>>>
>>>
>>
>
> -- Cheers
> Shai Drori
> Timeless Recordings
> [log in to unmask]
> בברכה,
> שי דרורי
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