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ARSCLIST  March 2014

ARSCLIST March 2014

Subject:

Re: Neil Young wants to take h igh-resoluti on FLAC audio recordings mainstrea m with Pono - Tech New s and Analysis

From:

Tom Fine <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Tue, 11 Mar 2014 06:56:40 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

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text/plain (112 lines)

The worst example of toothpasting ever was the last Metallica album (which still won a Grammy for 
album art and was nominated for heavy metal categories -- nice message about quality from the Grammy 
folks). The RMS average level on that CD is -3dBfs and it's totally clipped. It's so over-loud that 
it clips the analog stage of most playback systems, clipping an already clipped waveform. And when 
it's crunched to a lossy format, it clips further because of all the digital overs created by the 
crunching math and psycho-acoustic EQ stuff. Even sometimes hearing damaged metal fans hate the 
sound of that album. Music-wise, while it's not up to Metallica's prime standards, it was their best 
album in years and could have stood as a very powerful last stand against age and changing 
music/culture trends. But it sounds so bad, I don't think it will be remembered as something as good 
as the music.

The mastering guys tell me that the biggest problem with the toothpasted stuff is that it's often 
delivered to them like that. Once a digital file has been committed to toothpasting, especially if 
it's done track by track, it can't be undone. Even if the toothpaste commitment came in the mixing, 
it's still an expensive and time-consuming endeavor to go back and remix it with civilized dynamics. 
The same is true with analog recordings, of course, and toothpasting was not invented in the DAW 
world (nor in rock music -- see Buddy Rich's 1970s Groove Merchant albums as an example of 
super-compressed jazz production).

As I've said before, the thing that amazes me about toothpasting is that the drummers -- usually the 
tough guys in the band -- let the guitarists win and come out louder. Toothpasting hurts electric 
guitars the least and drums the most.

-- Tom Fine


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Shai Drori" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2014 6:35 AM
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Neil Young wants to take h igh-resoluti on FLAC audio recordings mainstrea m 
with Pono - Tech New s and Analysis


>I actually had a client not pay me about a year ago for a mastering job because it wasn't 
>touthpasted. They went and redid it with another engineer who did. And they had the audacity 
>(Spelling?) to use my mixes without paying for them.
> Shai
> בתאריך 11/03/14 12:18 PM, ציטוט Tom Fine:
>> Yes. I lump them with record company hacks.
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Cham" <[log in to unmask]>
>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>> Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 10:19 PM
>> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Neil Young wants to take h igh-resoluti on FLAC audio recordings 
>> mainstrea m with Pono - Tech New s and Analysis
>>
>>
>>> Let's not forget the producers in this. Back when I was very active in recording, they were the 
>>> main proponents of louder is better.
>>>
>>> Bob Cham
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Apple, because it's Apple, hates FLAC and refuses to allow it in iTunes. Meanwhile, Sony is 
>>>> belatedly putting on a big push for native DSD, including a hardware/marketing push. So it's 
>>>> likely to be muddled, SACD vs DVD-A all over again. That said, anything to promote 
>>>> higher-quality downloads is a Good Thing in my book. I include in that Mastered for iTunes, but 
>>>> note that the vast majority of material sold on iTunes was not well mastered or well converted 
>>>> to the lossy format. Newer stuff, if it carries the Mastered for iTunes certification is 
>>>> better.
>>>>
>>>> On another front, I'm seeing slight signs of progress against terrible-sounding toothpaste MAKE 
>>>> IT LOUDER mastering. Just the fact that the high-rez downloads places are demanding reasonable 
>>>> dynamics is trickling down to the CD mastering. I've now heard enough tales of woe from 
>>>> mastering engineers -- "The Artist Made Me Do It" or "The Record Company Suit Made Me Do It" --  
>>>> that I tend to believe them, that Make It Louder is completely the fault of tin-eared artists 
>>>> and record company hacks. But that doesn't make the results sound any better!
>>>>
>>>> --Tom Fine
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Stamps" <[log in to unmask]>
>>>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>>> Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 6:20 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Neil Young wants to take h igh-resolution FLAC audio recordings 
>>>> mainstrea m with Pono - Tech News and Analysis
>>>>
>>>>> I hope all the players update their software so FLAC will play on everything, but 
>>>>> unfortunately it's not possible since many players (both software and hardware) sold and/or 
>>>>> distributed in the past cannot be updated.
>>>>> Tim
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mar 10, 2014, at 4:42 PM, Steve Greene wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> http://gigaom.com/2014/03/10/neil-young-wants-to-take-high-resolution-flac-audio-recordings-mainstream-with-pono/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Stay tuned...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Curious as to what kind of mass-market penetration you can make at that
>>>>>> price-point. Is the audiophile market alone enough?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Steve
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> !DSPAM:639,531e5abb44331637612606!
>>>
>>>
>>
>
> -- 
> Cheers
> Shai Drori
> Timeless Recordings
> [log in to unmask]
> בברכה,
> שי דרורי
> מומחה לשימור והמרה של אודיו וידאו וסרטים 8-35 ממ.
>
> 

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