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ARSCLIST  March 2014

ARSCLIST March 2014

Subject:

Re: Neil Young wants to take h igh-resoluti on FLAC audio recordings mainstrea m with Pono - Tech New s and Analysis

From:

eugene hayhoe <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Tue, 11 Mar 2014 04:40:12 -0700

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (155 lines)

LOL, 'toothpasted' or not, Metallica at any level 'sounds like torture to me.'



--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 3/11/14, Tom Fine <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Neil Young wants to take h igh-resoluti on FLAC audio recordings mainstrea m with Pono - Tech New s and Analysis
 To: [log in to unmask]
 Date: Tuesday, March 11, 2014, 6:56 AM
 
 The worst example of toothpasting
 ever was the last Metallica album (which still won a Grammy
 for album art and was nominated for heavy metal categories
 -- nice message about quality from the Grammy folks). The
 RMS average level on that CD is -3dBfs and it's totally
 clipped. It's so over-loud that it clips the analog stage of
 most playback systems, clipping an already clipped waveform.
 And when it's crunched to a lossy format, it clips further
 because of all the digital overs created by the crunching
 math and psycho-acoustic EQ stuff. Even sometimes hearing
 damaged metal fans hate the sound of that album. Music-wise,
 while it's not up to Metallica's prime standards, it was
 their best album in years and could have stood as a very
 powerful last stand against age and changing music/culture
 trends. But it sounds so bad, I don't think it will be
 remembered as something as good as the music.
 
 The mastering guys tell me that the biggest problem with the
 toothpasted stuff is that it's often delivered to them like
 that. Once a digital file has been committed to
 toothpasting, especially if it's done track by track, it
 can't be undone. Even if the toothpaste commitment came in
 the mixing, it's still an expensive and time-consuming
 endeavor to go back and remix it with civilized dynamics.
 The same is true with analog recordings, of course, and
 toothpasting was not invented in the DAW world (nor in rock
 music -- see Buddy Rich's 1970s Groove Merchant albums as an
 example of super-compressed jazz production).
 
 As I've said before, the thing that amazes me about
 toothpasting is that the drummers -- usually the tough guys
 in the band -- let the guitarists win and come out louder.
 Toothpasting hurts electric guitars the least and drums the
 most.
 
 -- Tom Fine
 
 
 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shai Drori" <[log in to unmask]>
 To: <[log in to unmask]>
 Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2014 6:35 AM
 Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Neil Young wants to take h
 igh-resoluti on FLAC audio recordings mainstrea m with Pono
 - Tech New s and Analysis
 
 
 > I actually had a client not pay me about a year ago for
 a mastering job because it wasn't touthpasted. They went and
 redid it with another engineer who did. And they had the
 audacity (Spelling?) to use my mixes without paying for
 them.
 > Shai
 > בתאריך 11/03/14 12:18 PM, ציטוט Tom Fine:
 >> Yes. I lump them with record company hacks.
 >> 
 >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Cham"
 <[log in to unmask]>
 >> To: <[log in to unmask]>
 >> Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 10:19 PM
 >> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Neil Young wants to take h
 igh-resoluti on FLAC audio recordings mainstrea m with Pono
 - Tech New s and Analysis
 >> 
 >> 
 >>> Let's not forget the producers in this. Back
 when I was very active in recording, they were the main
 proponents of louder is better.
 >>> 
 >>> Bob Cham
 >>> 
 >>> 
 >>> 
 >>>> Apple, because it's Apple, hates FLAC and
 refuses to allow it in iTunes. Meanwhile, Sony is belatedly
 putting on a big push for native DSD, including a
 hardware/marketing push. So it's likely to be muddled, SACD
 vs DVD-A all over again. That said, anything to promote
 higher-quality downloads is a Good Thing in my book. I
 include in that Mastered for iTunes, but note that the vast
 majority of material sold on iTunes was not well mastered or
 well converted to the lossy format. Newer stuff, if it
 carries the Mastered for iTunes certification is better.
 >>>> 
 >>>> On another front, I'm seeing slight signs
 of progress against terrible-sounding toothpaste MAKE IT
 LOUDER mastering. Just the fact that the high-rez downloads
 places are demanding reasonable dynamics is trickling down
 to the CD mastering. I've now heard enough tales of woe from
 mastering engineers -- "The Artist Made Me Do It" or "The
 Record Company Suit Made Me Do It" --  that I tend to
 believe them, that Make It Louder is completely the fault of
 tin-eared artists and record company hacks. But that doesn't
 make the results sound any better!
 >>>> 
 >>>> --Tom Fine
 >>>> 
 >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim
 Stamps" <[log in to unmask]>
 >>>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
 >>>> Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 6:20 PM
 >>>> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Neil Young wants to
 take h igh-resolution FLAC audio recordings mainstrea m with
 Pono - Tech News and Analysis
 >>>> 
 >>>>> I hope all the players update their
 software so FLAC will play on everything, but unfortunately
 it's not possible since many players (both software and
 hardware) sold and/or distributed in the past cannot be
 updated.
 >>>>> Tim
 >>>>> 
 >>>>> On Mar 10, 2014, at 4:42 PM, Steve
 Greene wrote:
 >>>>> 
 >>>>>> http://gigaom.com/2014/03/10/neil-young-wants-to-take-high-resolution-flac-audio-recordings-mainstream-with-pono/
 >>>>>> 
 >>>>>> Stay tuned...
 >>>>>> 
 >>>>>> Curious as to what kind of
 mass-market penetration you can make at that
 >>>>>> price-point. Is the audiophile
 market alone enough?
 >>>>>> 
 >>>>>> Steve
 >>>>> 
 >>>>> 
 >>>> 
 >>>> !DSPAM:639,531e5abb44331637612606!
 >>> 
 >>> 
 >> 
 > 
 > -- Cheers
 > Shai Drori
 > Timeless Recordings
 > [log in to unmask]
 > בברכה,
 > שי דרורי
 > מומחה לשימור והמרה של אודיו
 וידאו וסרטים 8-35 ממ.
 > 
 > 
 

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