LISTSERV mailing list manager LISTSERV 16.0

Help for PCCLIST Archives


PCCLIST Archives

PCCLIST Archives


PCCLIST@LISTSERV.LOC.GOV


View:

Message:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Topic:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Author:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

Font:

Proportional Font

LISTSERV Archives

LISTSERV Archives

PCCLIST Home

PCCLIST Home

PCCLIST  April 2014

PCCLIST April 2014

Subject:

Re: Preferred title using "Poems. Selections" question

From:

"James, Kate" <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Program for Cooperative Cataloging <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Tue, 1 Apr 2014 10:42:58 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (241 lines)

Sorry to join the conversation late and go back to an earlier point, but I do think this is important.  None of the three titles listed in Robert Bothmann's email would receive conventional collective titles.  Bill Robboy already explained that the third one is a compilation of works by different people.  The first and second examples are both compilations of works by a single creator that have become known by a specific title so 6.2.2 applies to them, just as it applies to our favorite examples--Leaves of Grass.  However, that doesn't make things any easier for the cataloger because the compilation shares the same title an individual work within the compilation.  "Falling up" is the name of one poem in the compilation of the same name and "The sentinel" is one short story in a compilation of the same name.  So now the cataloger has to decide whether to apply 6.27.1.9.  Our LC-PCC PS says that catalogers should test for conflict by searching in the catalog and may also take into account any known conflict even if it's not in the catalog.  If I were cataloging manifestations of these two compilations of works, I would not be able to put on blinders to the fact that there is a conflict so I would use 240s.  The problem is what to use because several of the elements that would apply to the compilation also apply to the individual work.  So if I had been able to apply 6.2.2.10 to these compilations, it would have been easier.  Frankly, for many compilations it is much easier to apply 6.2.2.10.3 than it is to determine 1) whether a compilation of poems by Author X is the same as a previously published compilation with the same title; 2) what is the most commonly known (or original edition title in case of doubt) title when a compilation has been published with multiple titles; and 3) if there is a conflict between two works by the same author with the same title.

Here are examples of possible applications of 6.27.1.9 to distinguish between the individual works and the compilations.  I'm sure there are other valid possibilities, and it's also possible that another cataloger would have determined that there was no need to apply the LC-PCC PS for 6.27.1.9.

Silverstein, Shel, author
Falling up (Compilation)
Falling up / poems and drawings by Shel Silverstein.


Clarke, Arthur C., author
Sentinel (1983)
The sentinel / by Arthur C. Clarke.


Kate James
Policy and Standards Division
Library of Congress


-----Original Message-----
From: Program for Cooperative Cataloging [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Amy Turner
Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2014 9:19 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [PCCLIST] Preferred title using "Poems. Selections" question

Whether or not conventional collective titles hide manifestation titles is a matter of how the catalog is structured.   In card catalogs, in the author's file, the title cards were filed under the collective title, with references from the manifestation titles.  Though this did not hide the manifestation titles (assuming users followed cross references) it de-emphasized them.    Duke has yet to have a catalog which successfully replicated those author/title references.   A catalog could theoretically file works with conventional collective titles in two places in under the author's name, fulfilling the aim of another "gathering title" which Tim advocates.  However, we haven't had a catalog that does that either.   So, it has come down to a choice of hiding either the manifestation title or the collective title.

My general aversion to uniform titles is not so much to their use in the 240 fields where they can be accessed in various ways, but to their use in "authorized access points for works and expressions."   We are supposed to be looking forward to linked data and to sophisticated systems that make it possible to access data in many ways.   Instead, we are trying to reduce complicated information about works and expressions into counter-intuitive character strings.

Amy


Amy Turner

Monographic Cataloger and Authority Control Coordinator Duke University Libraries

[log in to unmask]



-----Original Message-----
From: Program for Cooperative Cataloging [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Carlton, Tim
Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2014 8:56 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [PCCLIST] Preferred title using "Poems. Selections" question

Well-said (although some will assuredly quibble over saying 'most')!

As a former literature cataloger, I did see the benefit of conventional collective titles; for example, I want to find a selection of [whoever's] plays (or all of them, what the heck), and I don't particularly care which ones, and I may not even know the titles, or that others exist.  Especially if translation is a factor.  
And I don't understand the general aversion I'm seeing so often in the list to the very idea of a conventional collective title.  As you correctly note, we are not talking about hiding the manifestation title; the point is provision of another 'gathering title' (as some called 'uniform titles').' 
Judgment ..................

Here speaking for myself, NOT as a matter of LC policy.

Timothy J. Carlton
Senior Instructor
Cooperative and Instructional Programs (COIN) Library of Congress
202-707-5323
[log in to unmask]

The views expressed here are my own and I do not speak officially for the Library of Congress.



-----Original Message-----
From: Program for Cooperative Cataloging [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Arakawa, Steven
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2014 4:47 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [PCCLIST] Preferred title using "Poems. Selections" question

If someone were to write a book about Follow the blackbirds, it seems to me it is by definition well known under that title and the bibliographic record would be recataloged as part of the process of cataloging the critical work. But most poetry collections will never warrant a book or article written about them, so I don't expect it would happen often.  And in the meantime, the author of the book of criticism can contextualize Follow the blackbirds by retrieving the poet's other collections using the conventional collective title. It's not like catalogers would be suppressing the publication title. 

Steven Arakawa
Catalog Librarian for Training & Documentation  
Catalog & Metadata Services   
Sterling Memorial Library. Yale University  
P.O. Box 208240 New Haven, CT 06520-8240     
(203) 432-8286 [log in to unmask]




-----Original Message-----
From: Program for Cooperative Cataloging [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Amy Turner
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2014 4:16 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Preferred title using "Poems. Selections" question

In the Duke University Libraries catalog (Endeca, one of the "next-generation catalogs" now in fashion), a search for "Follow the blackbirds" results in this hit (apologies for formatting that was be lost in transmission: to see the actual entry, follow the link:  http://search.library.duke.edu/search?sugg=is&source=duke&Nty=1&N=0&Ntk=Title&Ntt=follow+the+blackbirds):


Follow the blackbirds
Author: Westerman, Gwen.
Format: Book
Published:  East Lansing : Michigan State University Press, [2013] Perkins/Bostock Library Stacks Click for map
PS3623.E84767 F65 2013
Checked Out (due 05/15/14).

The only way that you can see that LC used a uniform title is to click on the title, and then on "details" where it is a part of a list:


Titles: 
Uniform Title: Poems. Selections
Authors:
Gwen Nell Westerman.
 Westerman, Gwen. 
Series:
American Indian Studies Series
 American Indian studies series (East Lansing, Mich.) Item Description:
Published: East Lansing : Michigan State University Press, [2013]
 Description: 72 pages ; 23 cm
 ISBN: 9781611860924 (pbk. : alk. paper)
 ISBN: 161186092X (pbk. : alk. paper)
 ISBN: 9781609173845 (ebook)
 OCLC Number: 826016001
Notes:
Gift of the Leona Bowman Carpenter Collection of English and American Literature

We catalogers have our complaints about Endeca, but I think in this case they got it right.   Collective uniform titles like this (and uniform titles in general) are not intuitive to the user, and hiding them in "details" is just fine by me.    BUT, if someone were to write a criticism of "Follow the blackbirds", following LC practice would result in a subject heading of: Westerman, Gwen. $t Poems. $k Selections (perhaps qualified to make it unique???).   

Amy




-----Original Message-----
From: Program for Cooperative Cataloging [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Bothmann, Robert L
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2014 3:30 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [PCCLIST] Preferred title using "Poems. Selections" question

You are kidding me, right?

By that logic we would do this:

Silverstein, Shel, author
Poems. Selections
Falling up / poems and drawings by Shel Silverstein.


Clarke, Arthur C., author
Short stories. Selections
The sentinel / by Arthur C. Clarke.


Articles. Selections
Practical strategies for cataloging departments / edited by Rebecca L.
Lubas. 


[Also, in what universe does ³Poems. Selections² add clarity and/or meet FISO??]

Yes, I can see this PS being valid for a work without a collective title, but ³Follow the Blackbirds² is the collective title of the book of poems.

But LC really wants to do "<Form>. Selections² for every book of poetry, short stories, omnibus editions of novels, conference proceedings, edited theme editions of books, and every other collected works compilation with a collective title?

Is this PS really being interpreted correctly? Why would we ignore 6.2.2.4 RDA and its instruction to ³choose as the preferred title the title in the original language by which the work has become known² which is the title proper, ³Follow the Blackbirds²?


Bobby



On 3/31/14, 1:41 PM, "Adam L. Schiff" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

>This is LC's policy.  The anthology is a compilation of works.  It 
>doesn't matter that they haven't been previously published elsewhere.
>LC policy is to assign a conventional collective title in these 
>situations.  See the LC-PCC PS at the alternative for 6.2.2.10.3:
>
>  LC practice for Alternative: Instead of recording the preferred title 
>for each of the works in the compilation, record a conventional 
>collective title followed by "Selections." Give an authorized access 
>point for the first or predominant work (Policy Statement 25.1) or 
>expression (Policy Statement 26.1).
>
>The LC-PCC PS for 25.1 says to disregard the last sentence above for 
>anthologies of poetry.
>
>--Adam Schiff
>
>**************************************
>* Adam L. Schiff                     *
>* Principal Cataloger                *
>* University of Washington Libraries *
>* Box 352900                         *
>* Seattle, WA 98195-2900             *
>* (206) 543-8409                     *
>* (206) 685-8782 fax                 *
>* [log in to unmask]           *
>**************************************
>
>On Mon, 31 Mar 2014, Bothmann, Robert L wrote:
>
>> Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2014 15:57:53 +0000
>> From: "Bothmann, Robert L" <[log in to unmask]>
>> Reply-To: Program for Cooperative Cataloging 
>> <[log in to unmask]>
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Preferred title using "Poems. Selections" question
>> 
>> Please see the record for "Follow the Blackbirds" by Gwen Westerman, 
>>LCCN 2012046616 / OCLC ocn826016001
>>
>> Can anyone explain why there is a preferred title "Poems. Selections."
>>? I can't figure it out.
>>
>> While some of the poems in this book have been published in other 
>>places, this is a unique and original work of its own according to the 
>>author (who is also my neighbor and a colleague at my institution).
>>
>> I can't find anything in RDA that justifies this. No other work bears 
>>this title.
>>
>> Thanks for any light that can be shed.
>>
>> Bobby Bothmann
>>
>> ***********************************
>> Robert Bothmann
>> Metadata & Emerging Technologies Librarian Professor, Library 
>> Services Minnesota State University, Mankato P.O. Box 8419, ML3097 
>> Mankato, MN 56002
>> Voice: 507-389-2010
>> Fax: 507-389-5155
>> [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
>>
>>
>
>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Adam L. Schiff
>Principal Cataloger
>University of Washington Libraries
>Box 352900
>Seattle, WA 98195-2900
>(206) 543-8409
>(206) 685-8782 fax
>[log in to unmask]
>http://faculty.washington.edu/~aschiff
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Top of Message | Previous Page | Permalink

Advanced Options


Options

Log In

Log In

Get Password

Get Password


Search Archives

Search Archives


Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Subscribe or Unsubscribe


Archives

August 2020
July 2020
June 2020
May 2020
April 2020
March 2020
February 2020
January 2020
December 2019
November 2019
October 2019
September 2019
August 2019
July 2019
June 2019
May 2019
April 2019
March 2019
February 2019
January 2019
December 2018
November 2018
October 2018
September 2018
August 2018
July 2018
June 2018
May 2018
April 2018
March 2018
February 2018
January 2018
December 2017
November 2017
October 2017
September 2017
August 2017
July 2017
June 2017
May 2017
April 2017
March 2017
February 2017
January 2017
December 2016
November 2016
October 2016
September 2016
August 2016
July 2016
June 2016
May 2016
April 2016
March 2016
February 2016
January 2016
December 2015
November 2015
October 2015
September 2015
August 2015
July 2015
June 2015
May 2015
April 2015
March 2015
February 2015
January 2015
December 2014
November 2014
October 2014
September 2014
August 2014
July 2014
June 2014
May 2014
April 2014
March 2014
February 2014
January 2014
December 2013
November 2013
October 2013
September 2013
August 2013
July 2013
June 2013
May 2013
April 2013
March 2013
February 2013
January 2013
December 2012
November 2012
October 2012
September 2012
August 2012
July 2012
June 2012
May 2012
April 2012
March 2012
February 2012
January 2012
December 2011
November 2011
October 2011
September 2011
August 2011
July 2011
June 2011
May 2011
April 2011
March 2011
February 2011
January 2011
December 2010
November 2010
October 2010
September 2010
August 2010
July 2010
June 2010
May 2010
April 2010
March 2010
February 2010
January 2010
December 2009
November 2009
October 2009
September 2009
August 2009
July 2009
June 2009
May 2009
April 2009
March 2009
February 2009
January 2009
December 2008
November 2008
October 2008
September 2008
August 2008
July 2008
June 2008
May 2008
April 2008
March 2008
February 2008
January 2008
December 2007
November 2007
October 2007
September 2007
August 2007
July 2007
June 2007
May 2007
April 2007
March 2007
February 2007
January 2007
December 2006
November 2006
October 2006
September 2006
August 2006
July 2006
June 2006
May 2006
April 2006
March 2006
February 2006
January 2006
December 2005
November 2005
October 2005
September 2005
August 2005
July 2005
June 2005
May 2005
April 2005
March 2005
February 2005
January 2005
December 2004
November 2004
October 2004
September 2004
August 2004
July 2004
June 2004
May 2004
April 2004
March 2004
February 2004
January 2004
December 2003
November 2003
October 2003
September 2003
August 2003
July 2003
June 2003
May 2003
April 2003
March 2003
February 2003
January 2003
December 2002
November 2002
October 2002
September 2002
August 2002
July 2002
June 2002
May 2002
April 2002
March 2002
February 2002
January 2002
December 2001
November 2001
October 2001
September 2001
August 2001
July 2001
June 2001
May 2001
April 2001
March 2001
February 2001
January 2001
December 2000
November 2000
October 2000
September 2000
August 2000
July 2000
June 2000
May 2000
April 2000
March 2000
February 2000
January 2000
December 1999
November 1999
October 1999
September 1999
August 1999
July 1999
June 1999
May 1999
April 1999
March 1999
February 1999
January 1999
December 1998
November 1998
October 1998
September 1998
August 1998
July 1998
June 1998
May 1998
April 1998
March 1998
February 1998
January 1998
December 1997
November 1997
October 1997

ATOM RSS1 RSS2



LISTSERV.LOC.GOV

CataList Email List Search Powered by the LISTSERV Email List Manager