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ARSCLIST  May 2014

ARSCLIST May 2014

Subject:

unsubscribe

From:

Cynthia Mathews <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sat, 17 May 2014 11:18:48 -0500

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (3367 lines)

On Fri, May 16, 2014 at 11:00 PM, ARSCLIST automatic digest system <
[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> There are 26 messages totalling 3102 lines in this issue.
>
> Topics of the day:
>
>   1. Tape Project -- kapoot?
>   2. [MLA-L] RE: the end of the CD and DVD (and the CD and DVD player)? (7)
>   3. the end of the CD and DVD (and the CD and DVD player)? (5)
>   4. [MLA-L] Future of CDs (12)
>   5. <No subject given>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date:    Fri, 16 May 2014 00:28:37 -0700
> From:    carl stephen koto <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Tape Project -- kapoot?
>
> The latest release "Nat King Cole Sings, George Shearing Plays" began =
> shipping at the end of Jan. 2014 and may still be shipping. Nate =
> Adderley "Work Song" should begin shipping soon.
> The next albums in the queue are;
> Otis Rush "Right Place, Wrong Time"
> Oliver Nelson "Afro American Sketches"
> John Lee Hooker and Canned Heat "Hooker 'N' Heat"
>
> Steve Koto
> On May 14, 2014, at 12:51 PM, Tom Fine <[log in to unmask]> =
> wrote:
>
> > Did the Tape Project die a quiet death? Their website seems to =
> indicate no new releases for years now and no planned releases.
> >=20
> > -- Tom Fine=20
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Fri, 16 May 2014 07:57:59 -0400
> From:    Music Hunter <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: [MLA-L] RE: the end of the CD and DVD (and the CD and DVD
> player)?
>
> Hi Tom & friends,
>
>
>
> Is there any evidence pointing to that happening?
>
>
>
> I am still enjoying CDs obtained when CDs were first introduced in the
> early
> '80's with no sign of self-degrading in over 30 years. I'm trying to think
> of what other products we have that have that still work as well as they
> did
> when brand new.
>
>
>
> Talk about value...
>
>
>
> Jay
>
>
>
> Your search for sound & video ends here!
>
> Jay Sonin, General Manager
> Music Hunter Distributing Company
> 4880 North Citation Drive, Suite # 101
> Delray Beach, Florida 33445-6552
> [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> 561-450-7152
>
>
>
> From: Stephen Thomson Moore [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Friday, May 16, 2014 7:33 AM
> To: Wagstaff, D John; Edmonds, Amy; [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [MLA-L] RE: the end of the CD and DVD (and the CD and DVD
> player)?
>
>
>
> Dear all,
>
>
>
> Another concern with the end of the CD and DVD seems to be that our immense
> collections of Cds will self-degrade and be nothing more than shiny discs
> in
> a few short years. What about that?
>
>
>
> Best, Tom Moore
>
> FIU
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: <Wagstaff>, D John <[log in to unmask]>
> Reply-To: "Wagstaff, D John" <[log in to unmask]>
> Date: Thursday, May 15, 2014 5:54 PM
> To: "Edmonds, Amy" <[log in to unmask]>, "[log in to unmask]"
> <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: [MLA-L] RE: the end of the CD and DVD (and the CD and DVD player)?
>
>
>
> I think maybe the issue is that, once we reach a tipping point with
> e-books,
> the publishers might decide to move to an I-Tunes account-type distribution
> model, i.e. a "one individual/one account, no libraries need apply thank
> you
> very much have a nice day but get lost". We're already seeing this with
> some
> textbooks, after all. Print surrogates will then become impossible to
> obtain, libraries are cut out of the equation, and first-sale doctrine is
> sacrificed to licensing agreements.
>
>
>
> I don't write this in a "the-publisher-is-the-enemy" spirit, they clearly
> are only trying to make money and keep their businesses afloat, and
> arguably
> if the roles were reversed we'd be doing the same. But I suspect that
> that's
> definitely the commercial motivation behind the push towards e-books.
>
>
>
> John
>
>
>
>
>
> John Wagstaff
>
> Head, Music & Performing Arts Library
>
> Interim Head, Literatures and Languages Library
>
> University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
>
> 1114 W. Nevada Street
>
> Urbana IL61801
>
> Tel. 217-244-4070
>
> e-mail: [log in to unmask]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Edmonds, Amy [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2014 4:40 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: [MLA-L] RE: the end of the CD and DVD (and the CD and DVD player)?
>
>
>
> The same thing that makes it easy to crank out e-books makes it easy to
> publish in paper!  Why are they whining?
>
>
>
> I do read quite a bit on my kindle but for anything that I will be working
> with intellectually, I have to be able to put my sticky notes in it (shhh!)
> and flip through the pages at will for the bits that I will recognize
> visually but can't remember well enough to do a good search on a device.
>
>
>
> From: Wagstaff, D John [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2014 5:09 PM
> To: Stephen Thomson Moore; [log in to unmask]
> Subject: [MLA-L] RE: the end of the CD and DVD (and the CD and DVD player)?
>
>
>
> To answer this question I'd pose another, which is: For how many years have
> we been seeing magazines with the question "Is this the year of the
> e-book?"
> on their cover? (my answer: at least 15, and my answer is always "no"). In
> spite of publishers really, really wanting to push e-books, we're still a
> long way from having anything like a decent amount of e-books to offer in
> the performing arts.
>
>
>
> IMHO.
>
>
>
> John
>
>
>
> From: Stephen Thomson Moore [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2014 7:09 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: [MLA-L] the end of the CD and DVD (and the CD and DVD player)?
>
>
>
> Dear CW,
>
>
>
> Have you all seen any responsible prognostication on what the time frame
> might be for the end of CD as a commercial format for music, and of the DVD
> as a commercial format for video? Do you individually have any wise words
> in
> this regard? I already heard in 1995 that the CD would soon be history (not
> yet).
>
>
>
> Inquiringly, Tom Moore
>
> FIU
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Fri, 16 May 2014 14:07:03 +0000
> From:    Don Cox <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: the end of the CD and DVD (and the CD and DVD player)?
>
> On 16/05/2014, Music Hunter wrote:
>
> > Hi Tom & friends,
> >
> >
> >
> > Is there any evidence pointing to that happening?
> >
> >
> >
> > I am still enjoying CDs obtained when CDs were first introduced in the
> > early '80's with no sign of self-degrading in over 30 years. I'm
> > trying to think of what other products we have that have that still
> > work as well as they did when brand new.
> >
> CDs (except for a few that were faulty in manufacture) are lasting very
> well. They also seem to be still in demand by people who really care
> about music and will not accept lossy compression.
>
> There are plenty of books around that are several hundred years old and
> work as well as new.
>
> Less extreme, I have good camera lenses from the 1960s that give
> excellent image quality on today's digital camera. And black-and-white
> negatives last for decades at least.
> >
> A fifty year old pencil that hadn't been used up would draw as well
> today as it did when new, and fifty year old drawing paper is perfectly
> OK. I have some inherited watercolour paints that still work as well as
> new, and may be up to a century old.
> >
> > Talk about value...
> >
>
> Regards
> --
> Don Cox
> [log in to unmask]
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Fri, 16 May 2014 07:50:34 -0500
> From:    "[log in to unmask]" <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: [MLA-L] RE: the end of the CD and DVD (and the CD and DVD
> player)?
>
> I just received an email this morning notifying me that Millinniata 25GB
> BD blanks are now available and shipping. I intend to Xfer some of my
> most precious recordings/photos. At $4.50 per in a package of 15, that's
> not bad. About 18 cents/GB plus shipping.
>
> joe salerno
>
> On 5/16/2014 6:57 AM, Music Hunter wrote:
> > Hi Tom & friends,
> >
> >
> >
> > Is there any evidence pointing to that happening?
> >
> >
> >
> > I am still enjoying CDs obtained when CDs were first introduced in the
> early
> > '80's with no sign of self-degrading in over 30 years. I'm trying to
> think
> > of what other products we have that have that still work as well as they
> did
> > when brand new.
> >
> >
> >
> > Talk about value...
> >
> >
> >
> > Jay
> >
> >
> >
> > Your search for sound & video ends here!
> >
> > Jay Sonin, General Manager
> > Music Hunter Distributing Company
> > 4880 North Citation Drive, Suite # 101
> > Delray Beach, Florida 33445-6552
> > [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> > 561-450-7152
> >
> >
> >
> > From: Stephen Thomson Moore [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> > Sent: Friday, May 16, 2014 7:33 AM
> > To: Wagstaff, D John; Edmonds, Amy; [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: Re: [MLA-L] RE: the end of the CD and DVD (and the CD and DVD
> > player)?
> >
> >
> >
> > Dear all,
> >
> >
> >
> > Another concern with the end of the CD and DVD seems to be that our
> immense
> > collections of Cds will self-degrade and be nothing more than shiny
> discs in
> > a few short years. What about that?
> >
> >
> >
> > Best, Tom Moore
> >
> > FIU
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From: <Wagstaff>, D John <[log in to unmask]>
> > Reply-To: "Wagstaff, D John" <[log in to unmask]>
> > Date: Thursday, May 15, 2014 5:54 PM
> > To: "Edmonds, Amy" <[log in to unmask]>, "[log in to unmask]"
> > <[log in to unmask]>
> > Subject: [MLA-L] RE: the end of the CD and DVD (and the CD and DVD
> player)?
> >
> >
> >
> > I think maybe the issue is that, once we reach a tipping point with
> e-books,
> > the publishers might decide to move to an I-Tunes account-type
> distribution
> > model, i.e. a "one individual/one account, no libraries need apply thank
> you
> > very much have a nice day but get lost". We're already seeing this with
> some
> > textbooks, after all. Print surrogates will then become impossible to
> > obtain, libraries are cut out of the equation, and first-sale doctrine is
> > sacrificed to licensing agreements.
> >
> >
> >
> > I don't write this in a "the-publisher-is-the-enemy" spirit, they clearly
> > are only trying to make money and keep their businesses afloat, and
> arguably
> > if the roles were reversed we'd be doing the same. But I suspect that
> that's
> > definitely the commercial motivation behind the push towards e-books.
> >
> >
> >
> > John
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > John Wagstaff
> >
> > Head, Music & Performing Arts Library
> >
> > Interim Head, Literatures and Languages Library
> >
> > University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
> >
> > 1114 W. Nevada Street
> >
> > Urbana IL61801
> >
> > Tel. 217-244-4070
> >
> > e-mail: [log in to unmask]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From: Edmonds, Amy [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> > Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2014 4:40 PM
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: [MLA-L] RE: the end of the CD and DVD (and the CD and DVD
> player)?
> >
> >
> >
> > The same thing that makes it easy to crank out e-books makes it easy to
> > publish in paper!  Why are they whining?
> >
> >
> >
> > I do read quite a bit on my kindle but for anything that I will be
> working
> > with intellectually, I have to be able to put my sticky notes in it
> (shhh!)
> > and flip through the pages at will for the bits that I will recognize
> > visually but can't remember well enough to do a good search on a device.
> >
> >
> >
> > From: Wagstaff, D John [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> > Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2014 5:09 PM
> > To: Stephen Thomson Moore; [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: [MLA-L] RE: the end of the CD and DVD (and the CD and DVD
> player)?
> >
> >
> >
> > To answer this question I'd pose another, which is: For how many years
> have
> > we been seeing magazines with the question "Is this the year of the
> e-book?"
> > on their cover? (my answer: at least 15, and my answer is always "no").
> In
> > spite of publishers really, really wanting to push e-books, we're still a
> > long way from having anything like a decent amount of e-books to offer in
> > the performing arts.
> >
> >
> >
> > IMHO.
> >
> >
> >
> > John
> >
> >
> >
> > From: Stephen Thomson Moore [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> > Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2014 7:09 AM
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: [MLA-L] the end of the CD and DVD (and the CD and DVD player)?
> >
> >
> >
> > Dear CW,
> >
> >
> >
> > Have you all seen any responsible prognostication on what the time frame
> > might be for the end of CD as a commercial format for music, and of the
> DVD
> > as a commercial format for video? Do you individually have any wise
> words in
> > this regard? I already heard in 1995 that the CD would soon be history
> (not
> > yet).
> >
> >
> >
> > Inquiringly, Tom Moore
> >
> > FIU
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Joe Salerno
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Fri, 16 May 2014 08:58:16 -0400
> From:    Tom Fine <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: [MLA-L] RE: the end of the CD and DVD (and the CD and DVD
> player)?
>
> Hi Jay:
>
> We keep hearing pundits and prognosticators talk about the "coming end of
> physical media," but as
> you say the record companies keep cranking out CDs. As far as I know Sony,
> and maybe other record
> companies, still own and operate CD manufacturing plants, so it may be in
> their interest to keep CDs
> going at least until plants and equipment are well amortized.
>
> Also, can anyone point to a musician or group that garnered tremendous
> radio play and/or
> record-music sales WITHOUT a CD release? Yes, you can break through with a
> song made in your
> basement and placed on YouTube, and you may sell a few thousand downloads
> DIY'ing it through iTunes
> (and make a few thousand pennies on the deal), but I think you still need
> physical media for mass
> market penetration. I may be wrong on that, but I'd like to hear some
> specific facts and examples
> that prove me wrong.
>
> Now here's what's changed. If you're Led Zeppelin in the late 1990s, you
> get together with a
> remastering engineer, comb your vaults and maybe put out "Anniversary
> Edition" multi-CD sets with
> some studio out-takes and some new artwork. You could count on brisk
> sales, because the first CD
> edition of your albums probably sounded like garbage and probably wasn't
> cut from the
> first-generation master tape.  Fast forward to 2014, and you can't just do
> a CD release. You need to
> go multi-media:
> http://www.ledzeppelin.com/buy/
> I think it's called "multi-platform" nowadays. At multiple price points,
> with multiple content
> configurations. There is a download component, but notice that it's in the
> background with the
> marketing. Physical products are still front and center.
>
> What I'm not so sure about is, how does this all play out with
> less-mainstream (ie slower-selling)
> artists and genres. In classical and jazz, the strategy in recent years
> has been to stick with CDs
> but greatly reduce the price-per-disc of content. So you have, for
> instance, the Mercury and Decca
> and RCA box sets selling for less than $2 per disc, vs. more than $10 per
> disc when the material was
> originally released in single-disc format. At these price points, forget
> about margin for deluxe
> remastering like Led Zep can do. The most popular classical and jazz
> titles, the ones proven popular
> over time and the rare break-out "hit" of more recent vintage, do present
> a business model enabling
> high-resolution mastering and multi-format sales.
>
> I know from experience that these record companies watch the money like
> hawks, and if something is
> out of print or hasn't been remastered since the dawn of CDs, it's because
> their previous sales
> figures and future sales projections tell them it won't be profitable to
> go any further with that
> content. Sometimes, there is a niche player like a 3rd party vinyl
> reissuer, who can make hay with
> specific titles ignored by the parent company, but these are exceptions to
> the rule.
>
> Long and short, I think you'll be selling CDs well into old age, but it's
> entirely possible that the
> universe of available content on CD will shrink over time.
>
> -- Tom Fine
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Music Hunter" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Friday, May 16, 2014 7:57 AM
> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] [MLA-L] RE: the end of the CD and DVD (and the CD
> and DVD player)?
>
>
> > Hi Tom & friends,
> >
> >
> >
> > Is there any evidence pointing to that happening?
> >
> >
> >
> > I am still enjoying CDs obtained when CDs were first introduced in the
> early
> > '80's with no sign of self-degrading in over 30 years. I'm trying to
> think
> > of what other products we have that have that still work as well as they
> did
> > when brand new.
> >
> >
> >
> > Talk about value...
> >
> >
> >
> > Jay
> >
> >
> >
> > Your search for sound & video ends here!
> >
> > Jay Sonin, General Manager
> > Music Hunter Distributing Company
> > 4880 North Citation Drive, Suite # 101
> > Delray Beach, Florida 33445-6552
> > [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> > 561-450-7152
> >
> >
> >
> > From: Stephen Thomson Moore [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> > Sent: Friday, May 16, 2014 7:33 AM
> > To: Wagstaff, D John; Edmonds, Amy; [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: Re: [MLA-L] RE: the end of the CD and DVD (and the CD and DVD
> > player)?
> >
> >
> >
> > Dear all,
> >
> >
> >
> > Another concern with the end of the CD and DVD seems to be that our
> immense
> > collections of Cds will self-degrade and be nothing more than shiny
> discs in
> > a few short years. What about that?
> >
> >
> >
> > Best, Tom Moore
> >
> > FIU
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From: <Wagstaff>, D John <[log in to unmask]>
> > Reply-To: "Wagstaff, D John" <[log in to unmask]>
> > Date: Thursday, May 15, 2014 5:54 PM
> > To: "Edmonds, Amy" <[log in to unmask]>, "[log in to unmask]"
> > <[log in to unmask]>
> > Subject: [MLA-L] RE: the end of the CD and DVD (and the CD and DVD
> player)?
> >
> >
> >
> > I think maybe the issue is that, once we reach a tipping point with
> e-books,
> > the publishers might decide to move to an I-Tunes account-type
> distribution
> > model, i.e. a "one individual/one account, no libraries need apply thank
> you
> > very much have a nice day but get lost". We're already seeing this with
> some
> > textbooks, after all. Print surrogates will then become impossible to
> > obtain, libraries are cut out of the equation, and first-sale doctrine is
> > sacrificed to licensing agreements.
> >
> >
> >
> > I don't write this in a "the-publisher-is-the-enemy" spirit, they clearly
> > are only trying to make money and keep their businesses afloat, and
> arguably
> > if the roles were reversed we'd be doing the same. But I suspect that
> that's
> > definitely the commercial motivation behind the push towards e-books.
> >
> >
> >
> > John
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > John Wagstaff
> >
> > Head, Music & Performing Arts Library
> >
> > Interim Head, Literatures and Languages Library
> >
> > University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
> >
> > 1114 W. Nevada Street
> >
> > Urbana IL61801
> >
> > Tel. 217-244-4070
> >
> > e-mail: [log in to unmask]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From: Edmonds, Amy [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> > Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2014 4:40 PM
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: [MLA-L] RE: the end of the CD and DVD (and the CD and DVD
> player)?
> >
> >
> >
> > The same thing that makes it easy to crank out e-books makes it easy to
> > publish in paper!  Why are they whining?
> >
> >
> >
> > I do read quite a bit on my kindle but for anything that I will be
> working
> > with intellectually, I have to be able to put my sticky notes in it
> (shhh!)
> > and flip through the pages at will for the bits that I will recognize
> > visually but can't remember well enough to do a good search on a device.
> >
> >
> >
> > From: Wagstaff, D John [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> > Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2014 5:09 PM
> > To: Stephen Thomson Moore; [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: [MLA-L] RE: the end of the CD and DVD (and the CD and DVD
> player)?
> >
> >
> >
> > To answer this question I'd pose another, which is: For how many years
> have
> > we been seeing magazines with the question "Is this the year of the
> e-book?"
> > on their cover? (my answer: at least 15, and my answer is always "no").
> In
> > spite of publishers really, really wanting to push e-books, we're still a
> > long way from having anything like a decent amount of e-books to offer in
> > the performing arts.
> >
> >
> >
> > IMHO.
> >
> >
> >
> > John
> >
> >
> >
> > From: Stephen Thomson Moore [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> > Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2014 7:09 AM
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: [MLA-L] the end of the CD and DVD (and the CD and DVD player)?
> >
> >
> >
> > Dear CW,
> >
> >
> >
> > Have you all seen any responsible prognostication on what the time frame
> > might be for the end of CD as a commercial format for music, and of the
> DVD
> > as a commercial format for video? Do you individually have any wise
> words in
> > this regard? I already heard in 1995 that the CD would soon be history
> (not
> > yet).
> >
> >
> >
> > Inquiringly, Tom Moore
> >
> > FIU
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Fri, 16 May 2014 12:52:01 +0000
> From:    Eugene Hayhoe <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: [MLA-L] RE: the end of the CD and DVD (and the CD and DVD
> player)?
>
> Books?  LPs?  45s?  78s?
>
>
> > Date: Fri=2C 16 May 2014 07:57:59 -0400
> > From: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] [MLA-L] RE: the end of the CD and DVD (and the
> CD=
>  and DVD player)?
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> >=20
> > Hi Tom & friends=2C
> >=20
> > =20
> >=20
> > Is there any evidence pointing to that happening?
> >=20
> > =20
> >=20
> > I am still enjoying CDs obtained when CDs were first introduced in the
> ea=
> rly
> > '80's with no sign of self-degrading in over 30 years. I'm trying to
> thin=
> k
> > of what other products we have that have that still work as well as they
> =
> did
> > when brand new.
> >=20
> > =20
> >=20
> > Talk about value...
> >=20
> > =20
> >=20
> > Jay
> >=20
> > =20
> >=20
> > Your search for sound & video ends here!
> >=20
> > Jay Sonin=2C General Manager
> > Music Hunter Distributing Company
> > 4880 North Citation Drive=2C Suite # 101
> > Delray Beach=2C Florida 33445-6552
> > [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>=20
> > 561-450-7152=20
> >=20
> > =20
> >=20
> > From: Stephen Thomson Moore [mailto:[log in to unmask]]=20
> > Sent: Friday=2C May 16=2C 2014 7:33 AM
> > To: Wagstaff=2C D John=3B Edmonds=2C Amy=3B [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: Re: [MLA-L] RE: the end of the CD and DVD (and the CD and DVD
> > player)?
> >=20
> > =20
> >=20
> > Dear all=2C=20
> >=20
> > =20
> >=20
> > Another concern with the end of the CD and DVD seems to be that our
> immen=
> se
> > collections of Cds will self-degrade and be nothing more than shiny
> discs=
>  in
> > a few short years. What about that?
> >=20
> > =20
> >=20
> > Best=2C Tom Moore
> >=20
> > FIU
> >=20
> > =20
> >=20
> > =20
> >=20
> > =20
> >=20
> > From: <Wagstaff>=2C D John <[log in to unmask]>
> > Reply-To: "Wagstaff=2C D John" <[log in to unmask]>
> > Date: Thursday=2C May 15=2C 2014 5:54 PM
> > To: "Edmonds=2C Amy" <[log in to unmask]>=2C "[log in to unmask]"
> > <[log in to unmask]>
> > Subject: [MLA-L] RE: the end of the CD and DVD (and the CD and DVD
> player=
> )?
> >=20
> > =20
> >=20
> > I think maybe the issue is that=2C once we reach a tipping point with
> e-b=
> ooks=2C
> > the publishers might decide to move to an I-Tunes account-type
> distributi=
> on
> > model=2C i.e. a "one individual/one account=2C no libraries need apply
> th=
> ank you
> > very much have a nice day but get lost". We're already seeing this with
> s=
> ome
> > textbooks=2C after all. Print surrogates will then become impossible to
> > obtain=2C libraries are cut out of the equation=2C and first-sale
> doctrin=
> e is
> > sacrificed to licensing agreements.
> >=20
> > =20
> >=20
> > I don't write this in a "the-publisher-is-the-enemy" spirit=2C they
> clear=
> ly
> > are only trying to make money and keep their businesses afloat=2C and
> arg=
> uably
> > if the roles were reversed we'd be doing the same. But I suspect that
> tha=
> t's
> > definitely the commercial motivation behind the push towards e-books.
> >=20
> > =20
> >=20
> > John
> >=20
> > =20
> >=20
> > =20
> >=20
> > John Wagstaff
> >=20
> > Head=2C Music & Performing Arts Library
> >=20
> > Interim Head=2C Literatures and Languages Library
> >=20
> > University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
> >=20
> > 1114 W. Nevada Street
> >=20
> > Urbana IL61801
> >=20
> > Tel. 217-244-4070
> >=20
> > e-mail: [log in to unmask]
> >=20
> > =20
> >=20
> > =20
> >=20
> > =20
> >=20
> > From: Edmonds=2C Amy [mailto:[log in to unmask]]=20
> > Sent: Thursday=2C May 15=2C 2014 4:40 PM
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: [MLA-L] RE: the end of the CD and DVD (and the CD and DVD
> player=
> )?
> >=20
> > =20
> >=20
> > The same thing that makes it easy to crank out e-books makes it easy to
> > publish in paper!  Why are they whining?
> >=20
> > =20
> >=20
> > I do read quite a bit on my kindle but for anything that I will be
> workin=
> g
> > with intellectually=2C I have to be able to put my sticky notes in it
> (sh=
> hh!)
> > and flip through the pages at will for the bits that I will recognize
> > visually but can't remember well enough to do a good search on a device.
> >=20
> > =20
> >=20
> > From: Wagstaff=2C D John [mailto:[log in to unmask]]=20
> > Sent: Thursday=2C May 15=2C 2014 5:09 PM
> > To: Stephen Thomson Moore=3B [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: [MLA-L] RE: the end of the CD and DVD (and the CD and DVD
> player=
> )?
> >=20
> > =20
> >=20
> > To answer this question I'd pose another=2C which is: For how many years
> =
> have
> > we been seeing magazines with the question "Is this the year of the
> e-boo=
> k?"
> > on their cover? (my answer: at least 15=2C and my answer is always
> "no").=
>  In
> > spite of publishers really=2C really wanting to push e-books=2C we're
> sti=
> ll a
> > long way from having anything like a decent amount of e-books to offer in
> > the performing arts.
> >=20
> > =20
> >=20
> > IMHO.
> >=20
> > =20
> >=20
> > John
> >=20
> > =20
> >=20
> > From: Stephen Thomson Moore [mailto:[log in to unmask]]=20
> > Sent: Thursday=2C May 15=2C 2014 7:09 AM
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: [MLA-L] the end of the CD and DVD (and the CD and DVD player)?
> >=20
> > =20
> >=20
> > Dear CW=2C=20
> >=20
> > =20
> >=20
> > Have you all seen any responsible prognostication on what the time frame
> > might be for the end of CD as a commercial format for music=2C and of
> the=
>  DVD
> > as a commercial format for video? Do you individually have any wise
> words=
>  in
> > this regard? I already heard in 1995 that the CD would soon be history
> (n=
> ot
> > yet).=20
> >=20
> > =20
> >=20
> > Inquiringly=2C Tom Moore
> >=20
> > FIU
> >=20
> > =20
> >=20
> > =20
>                                           =
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Fri, 16 May 2014 09:02:06 -0400
> From:    Tom Fine <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: the end of the CD and DVD (and the CD and DVD player)?
>
> I gotta say, I HATE "eBooks." The day I can't read words printed on paper
> may be the day I stop
> reading "books." I also don't like reading newspapers on a tablet, but I'm
> getting used to it. The
> physical paper definitely causes me to retain knowledge better, because I
> can clip and rip and keep.
> Don is absolutely right about film negatives. And wait until the majority
> of people have all their
> personal photos in "the cloud" and something goes very wrong like a
> cyber-warfare attack or
> something. I don't believe data can be "permanently" backed up in a way
> where it's easily
> retreivable like a printed book or black and white photo negative. It's
> much more a hope and pray
> thing with digital data, no matter how "fail safe" one thinks his system
> might be.
>
> -- Tom Fine
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Don Cox" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Friday, May 16, 2014 10:07 AM
> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] the end of the CD and DVD (and the CD and DVD
> player)?
>
>
> > On 16/05/2014, Music Hunter wrote:
> >
> >> Hi Tom & friends,
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Is there any evidence pointing to that happening?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I am still enjoying CDs obtained when CDs were first introduced in the
> >> early '80's with no sign of self-degrading in over 30 years. I'm
> >> trying to think of what other products we have that have that still
> >> work as well as they did when brand new.
> >>
> > CDs (except for a few that were faulty in manufacture) are lasting very
> > well. They also seem to be still in demand by people who really care
> > about music and will not accept lossy compression.
> >
> > There are plenty of books around that are several hundred years old and
> > work as well as new.
> >
> > Less extreme, I have good camera lenses from the 1960s that give
> > excellent image quality on today's digital camera. And black-and-white
> > negatives last for decades at least.
> >>
> > A fifty year old pencil that hadn't been used up would draw as well
> > today as it did when new, and fifty year old drawing paper is perfectly
> > OK. I have some inherited watercolour paints that still work as well as
> > new, and may be up to a century old.
> >>
> >> Talk about value...
> >>
> >
> > Regards
> > --
> > Don Cox
> > [log in to unmask]
> >
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Fri, 16 May 2014 09:23:44 -0400
> From:    Music Hunter <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: [MLA-L] RE: the end of the CD and DVD (and the CD and DVD
> player)?
>
> Hi Tom,
>
> I can tell you that our CD/DVD sales to libraries are better than ever,
> literally great.
>
> Jay
>
> Your search for sound & video ends here!
> Jay Sonin, General Manager
> Music Hunter Distributing Company
> 4880 North Citation Drive, Suite # 101
> Delray Beach, Florida 33445-6552
> [log in to unmask]
> 561-450-7152
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Tom Fine
> Sent: Friday, May 16, 2014 8:58 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] [MLA-L] RE: the end of the CD and DVD (and the CD
> and DVD player)?
>
> Hi Jay:
>
> We keep hearing pundits and prognosticators talk about the "coming end of
> physical media," but as you say the record companies keep cranking out CDs.
> As far as I know Sony, and maybe other record companies, still own and
> operate CD manufacturing plants, so it may be in their interest to keep CDs
> going at least until plants and equipment are well amortized.
>
> Also, can anyone point to a musician or group that garnered tremendous
> radio
> play and/or record-music sales WITHOUT a CD release? Yes, you can break
> through with a song made in your basement and placed on YouTube, and you
> may
> sell a few thousand downloads DIY'ing it through iTunes (and make a few
> thousand pennies on the deal), but I think you still need physical media
> for
> mass market penetration. I may be wrong on that, but I'd like to hear some
> specific facts and examples that prove me wrong.
>
> Now here's what's changed. If you're Led Zeppelin in the late 1990s, you
> get
> together with a remastering engineer, comb your vaults and maybe put out
> "Anniversary Edition" multi-CD sets with some studio out-takes and some new
> artwork. You could count on brisk sales, because the first CD edition of
> your albums probably sounded like garbage and probably wasn't cut from the
> first-generation master tape.  Fast forward to 2014, and you can't just do
> a
> CD release. You need to go multi-media:
> http://www.ledzeppelin.com/buy/
> I think it's called "multi-platform" nowadays. At multiple price points,
> with multiple content configurations. There is a download component, but
> notice that it's in the background with the marketing. Physical products
> are
> still front and center.
>
> What I'm not so sure about is, how does this all play out with
> less-mainstream (ie slower-selling) artists and genres. In classical and
> jazz, the strategy in recent years has been to stick with CDs but greatly
> reduce the price-per-disc of content. So you have, for instance, the
> Mercury
> and Decca and RCA box sets selling for less than $2 per disc, vs. more than
> $10 per disc when the material was originally released in single-disc
> format. At these price points, forget about margin for deluxe remastering
> like Led Zep can do. The most popular classical and jazz titles, the ones
> proven popular over time and the rare break-out "hit" of more recent
> vintage, do present a business model enabling high-resolution mastering and
> multi-format sales.
>
> I know from experience that these record companies watch the money like
> hawks, and if something is out of print or hasn't been remastered since the
> dawn of CDs, it's because their previous sales figures and future sales
> projections tell them it won't be profitable to go any further with that
> content. Sometimes, there is a niche player like a 3rd party vinyl
> reissuer,
> who can make hay with specific titles ignored by the parent company, but
> these are exceptions to the rule.
>
> Long and short, I think you'll be selling CDs well into old age, but it's
> entirely possible that the universe of available content on CD will shrink
> over time.
>
> -- Tom Fine
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Music Hunter" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Friday, May 16, 2014 7:57 AM
> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] [MLA-L] RE: the end of the CD and DVD (and the CD
> and DVD player)?
>
>
> > Hi Tom & friends,
> >
> >
> >
> > Is there any evidence pointing to that happening?
> >
> >
> >
> > I am still enjoying CDs obtained when CDs were first introduced in the
> early
> > '80's with no sign of self-degrading in over 30 years. I'm trying to
> think
> > of what other products we have that have that still work as well as they
> did
> > when brand new.
> >
> >
> >
> > Talk about value...
> >
> >
> >
> > Jay
> >
> >
> >
> > Your search for sound & video ends here!
> >
> > Jay Sonin, General Manager
> > Music Hunter Distributing Company
> > 4880 North Citation Drive, Suite # 101
> > Delray Beach, Florida 33445-6552
> > [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> > 561-450-7152
> >
> >
> >
> > From: Stephen Thomson Moore [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> > Sent: Friday, May 16, 2014 7:33 AM
> > To: Wagstaff, D John; Edmonds, Amy; [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: Re: [MLA-L] RE: the end of the CD and DVD (and the CD and DVD
> > player)?
> >
> >
> >
> > Dear all,
> >
> >
> >
> > Another concern with the end of the CD and DVD seems to be that our
> immense
> > collections of Cds will self-degrade and be nothing more than shiny discs
> in
> > a few short years. What about that?
> >
> >
> >
> > Best, Tom Moore
> >
> > FIU
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From: <Wagstaff>, D John <[log in to unmask]>
> > Reply-To: "Wagstaff, D John" <[log in to unmask]>
> > Date: Thursday, May 15, 2014 5:54 PM
> > To: "Edmonds, Amy" <[log in to unmask]>, "[log in to unmask]"
> > <[log in to unmask]>
> > Subject: [MLA-L] RE: the end of the CD and DVD (and the CD and DVD
> player)?
> >
> >
> >
> > I think maybe the issue is that, once we reach a tipping point with
> e-books,
> > the publishers might decide to move to an I-Tunes account-type
> distribution
> > model, i.e. a "one individual/one account, no libraries need apply thank
> you
> > very much have a nice day but get lost". We're already seeing this with
> some
> > textbooks, after all. Print surrogates will then become impossible to
> > obtain, libraries are cut out of the equation, and first-sale doctrine is
> > sacrificed to licensing agreements.
> >
> >
> >
> > I don't write this in a "the-publisher-is-the-enemy" spirit, they clearly
> > are only trying to make money and keep their businesses afloat, and
> arguably
> > if the roles were reversed we'd be doing the same. But I suspect that
> that's
> > definitely the commercial motivation behind the push towards e-books.
> >
> >
> >
> > John
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > John Wagstaff
> >
> > Head, Music & Performing Arts Library
> >
> > Interim Head, Literatures and Languages Library
> >
> > University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
> >
> > 1114 W. Nevada Street
> >
> > Urbana IL61801
> >
> > Tel. 217-244-4070
> >
> > e-mail: [log in to unmask]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From: Edmonds, Amy [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> > Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2014 4:40 PM
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: [MLA-L] RE: the end of the CD and DVD (and the CD and DVD
> player)?
> >
> >
> >
> > The same thing that makes it easy to crank out e-books makes it easy to
> > publish in paper!  Why are they whining?
> >
> >
> >
> > I do read quite a bit on my kindle but for anything that I will be
> working
> > with intellectually, I have to be able to put my sticky notes in it
> (shhh!)
> > and flip through the pages at will for the bits that I will recognize
> > visually but can't remember well enough to do a good search on a device.
> >
> >
> >
> > From: Wagstaff, D John [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> > Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2014 5:09 PM
> > To: Stephen Thomson Moore; [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: [MLA-L] RE: the end of the CD and DVD (and the CD and DVD
> player)?
> >
> >
> >
> > To answer this question I'd pose another, which is: For how many years
> have
> > we been seeing magazines with the question "Is this the year of the
> e-book?"
> > on their cover? (my answer: at least 15, and my answer is always "no").
> In
> > spite of publishers really, really wanting to push e-books, we're still a
> > long way from having anything like a decent amount of e-books to offer in
> > the performing arts.
> >
> >
> >
> > IMHO.
> >
> >
> >
> > John
> >
> >
> >
> > From: Stephen Thomson Moore [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> > Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2014 7:09 AM
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: [MLA-L] the end of the CD and DVD (and the CD and DVD player)?
> >
> >
> >
> > Dear CW,
> >
> >
> >
> > Have you all seen any responsible prognostication on what the time frame
> > might be for the end of CD as a commercial format for music, and of the
> DVD
> > as a commercial format for video? Do you individually have any wise words
> in
> > this regard? I already heard in 1995 that the CD would soon be history
> (not
> > yet).
> >
> >
> >
> > Inquiringly, Tom Moore
> >
> > FIU
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Fri, 16 May 2014 09:34:04 -0400
> From:    Tom Fine <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: [MLA-L] RE: the end of the CD and DVD (and the CD and DVD
> player)?
>
> Jay, for libraries, what's the alternative? Despite the drawbacks (mainly
> the fact that librarians
> and customers tend to rough-handle 5" discs so they become unusable
> relatively quickly), US
> copyright laws make other alternatives non-viable for many libraries and
> patrons.
>
> I hate to say something too nice about cassettes, but those were the most
> bullet-proof
> library-circulation medium. The local librarians are forever bitching
> about how quickly expensive
> audiobooks get unusable because one CD out of many has been ruined by a
> clumsy patron or librarian.
> They tell me that in the cassette era, it was rare to have to replace a
> tape. The audiobook
> publishers are not always cooperative about replacing a single CD. It's
> the same with music -- one
> jerk can wreck a CD in his car with one careless handling move, and then
> the library has to pay full
> frieght to replace it. Cassettes were harder to render unusable, as bad as
> they sounded.
>
> I was thinking about doing the following as charity for my local library
> system:  having a bunch of
> rolls of stickers printed up that list concise and clearly-stated
> guidelines for handling CDs --
> don't touch the surface, don't put the disc face-down on a surface, don't
> scrape the disc over any
> rough surfaces, insert and remove from players carefully, etc -- and
> handing out rolls of stickers
> to each library in the system so they can stick them on CD cases.
>
> Same points apply to DVDs, but even more so since they become completely
> useless when they're
> scratched up.
>
> -- Tom Fine
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Music Hunter" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Friday, May 16, 2014 9:23 AM
> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] [MLA-L] RE: the end of the CD and DVD (and the CD
> and DVD player)?
>
>
> > Hi Tom,
> >
> > I can tell you that our CD/DVD sales to libraries are better than ever,
> > literally great.
> >
> > Jay
> >
> > Your search for sound & video ends here!
> > Jay Sonin, General Manager
> > Music Hunter Distributing Company
> > 4880 North Citation Drive, Suite # 101
> > Delray Beach, Florida 33445-6552
> > [log in to unmask]
> > 561-450-7152
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List
> > [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Tom Fine
> > Sent: Friday, May 16, 2014 8:58 AM
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] [MLA-L] RE: the end of the CD and DVD (and the CD
> > and DVD player)?
> >
> > Hi Jay:
> >
> > We keep hearing pundits and prognosticators talk about the "coming end of
> > physical media," but as you say the record companies keep cranking out
> CDs.
> > As far as I know Sony, and maybe other record companies, still own and
> > operate CD manufacturing plants, so it may be in their interest to keep
> CDs
> > going at least until plants and equipment are well amortized.
> >
> > Also, can anyone point to a musician or group that garnered tremendous
> radio
> > play and/or record-music sales WITHOUT a CD release? Yes, you can break
> > through with a song made in your basement and placed on YouTube, and you
> may
> > sell a few thousand downloads DIY'ing it through iTunes (and make a few
> > thousand pennies on the deal), but I think you still need physical media
> for
> > mass market penetration. I may be wrong on that, but I'd like to hear
> some
> > specific facts and examples that prove me wrong.
> >
> > Now here's what's changed. If you're Led Zeppelin in the late 1990s, you
> get
> > together with a remastering engineer, comb your vaults and maybe put out
> > "Anniversary Edition" multi-CD sets with some studio out-takes and some
> new
> > artwork. You could count on brisk sales, because the first CD edition of
> > your albums probably sounded like garbage and probably wasn't cut from
> the
> > first-generation master tape.  Fast forward to 2014, and you can't just
> do a
> > CD release. You need to go multi-media:
> > http://www.ledzeppelin.com/buy/
> > I think it's called "multi-platform" nowadays. At multiple price points,
> > with multiple content configurations. There is a download component, but
> > notice that it's in the background with the marketing. Physical products
> are
> > still front and center.
> >
> > What I'm not so sure about is, how does this all play out with
> > less-mainstream (ie slower-selling) artists and genres. In classical and
> > jazz, the strategy in recent years has been to stick with CDs but greatly
> > reduce the price-per-disc of content. So you have, for instance, the
> Mercury
> > and Decca and RCA box sets selling for less than $2 per disc, vs. more
> than
> > $10 per disc when the material was originally released in single-disc
> > format. At these price points, forget about margin for deluxe remastering
> > like Led Zep can do. The most popular classical and jazz titles, the ones
> > proven popular over time and the rare break-out "hit" of more recent
> > vintage, do present a business model enabling high-resolution mastering
> and
> > multi-format sales.
> >
> > I know from experience that these record companies watch the money like
> > hawks, and if something is out of print or hasn't been remastered since
> the
> > dawn of CDs, it's because their previous sales figures and future sales
> > projections tell them it won't be profitable to go any further with that
> > content. Sometimes, there is a niche player like a 3rd party vinyl
> reissuer,
> > who can make hay with specific titles ignored by the parent company, but
> > these are exceptions to the rule.
> >
> > Long and short, I think you'll be selling CDs well into old age, but it's
> > entirely possible that the universe of available content on CD will
> shrink
> > over time.
> >
> > -- Tom Fine
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Music Hunter" <[log in to unmask]>
> > To: <[log in to unmask]>
> > Sent: Friday, May 16, 2014 7:57 AM
> > Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] [MLA-L] RE: the end of the CD and DVD (and the CD
> > and DVD player)?
> >
> >
> >> Hi Tom & friends,
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Is there any evidence pointing to that happening?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I am still enjoying CDs obtained when CDs were first introduced in the
> > early
> >> '80's with no sign of self-degrading in over 30 years. I'm trying to
> think
> >> of what other products we have that have that still work as well as they
> > did
> >> when brand new.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Talk about value...
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Jay
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Your search for sound & video ends here!
> >>
> >> Jay Sonin, General Manager
> >> Music Hunter Distributing Company
> >> 4880 North Citation Drive, Suite # 101
> >> Delray Beach, Florida 33445-6552
> >> [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> >> 561-450-7152
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> From: Stephen Thomson Moore [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> >> Sent: Friday, May 16, 2014 7:33 AM
> >> To: Wagstaff, D John; Edmonds, Amy; [log in to unmask]
> >> Subject: Re: [MLA-L] RE: the end of the CD and DVD (and the CD and DVD
> >> player)?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Dear all,
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Another concern with the end of the CD and DVD seems to be that our
> > immense
> >> collections of Cds will self-degrade and be nothing more than shiny
> discs
> > in
> >> a few short years. What about that?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Best, Tom Moore
> >>
> >> FIU
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> From: <Wagstaff>, D John <[log in to unmask]>
> >> Reply-To: "Wagstaff, D John" <[log in to unmask]>
> >> Date: Thursday, May 15, 2014 5:54 PM
> >> To: "Edmonds, Amy" <[log in to unmask]>, "[log in to unmask]"
> >> <[log in to unmask]>
> >> Subject: [MLA-L] RE: the end of the CD and DVD (and the CD and DVD
> > player)?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I think maybe the issue is that, once we reach a tipping point with
> > e-books,
> >> the publishers might decide to move to an I-Tunes account-type
> > distribution
> >> model, i.e. a "one individual/one account, no libraries need apply thank
> > you
> >> very much have a nice day but get lost". We're already seeing this with
> > some
> >> textbooks, after all. Print surrogates will then become impossible to
> >> obtain, libraries are cut out of the equation, and first-sale doctrine
> is
> >> sacrificed to licensing agreements.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I don't write this in a "the-publisher-is-the-enemy" spirit, they
> clearly
> >> are only trying to make money and keep their businesses afloat, and
> > arguably
> >> if the roles were reversed we'd be doing the same. But I suspect that
> > that's
> >> definitely the commercial motivation behind the push towards e-books.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> John
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> John Wagstaff
> >>
> >> Head, Music & Performing Arts Library
> >>
> >> Interim Head, Literatures and Languages Library
> >>
> >> University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
> >>
> >> 1114 W. Nevada Street
> >>
> >> Urbana IL61801
> >>
> >> Tel. 217-244-4070
> >>
> >> e-mail: [log in to unmask]
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> From: Edmonds, Amy [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> >> Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2014 4:40 PM
> >> To: [log in to unmask]
> >> Subject: [MLA-L] RE: the end of the CD and DVD (and the CD and DVD
> > player)?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> The same thing that makes it easy to crank out e-books makes it easy to
> >> publish in paper!  Why are they whining?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I do read quite a bit on my kindle but for anything that I will be
> working
> >> with intellectually, I have to be able to put my sticky notes in it
> > (shhh!)
> >> and flip through the pages at will for the bits that I will recognize
> >> visually but can't remember well enough to do a good search on a device.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> From: Wagstaff, D John [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> >> Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2014 5:09 PM
> >> To: Stephen Thomson Moore; [log in to unmask]
> >> Subject: [MLA-L] RE: the end of the CD and DVD (and the CD and DVD
> > player)?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> To answer this question I'd pose another, which is: For how many years
> > have
> >> we been seeing magazines with the question "Is this the year of the
> > e-book?"
> >> on their cover? (my answer: at least 15, and my answer is always "no").
> In
> >> spite of publishers really, really wanting to push e-books, we're still
> a
> >> long way from having anything like a decent amount of e-books to offer
> in
> >> the performing arts.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> IMHO.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> John
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> From: Stephen Thomson Moore [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> >> Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2014 7:09 AM
> >> To: [log in to unmask]
> >> Subject: [MLA-L] the end of the CD and DVD (and the CD and DVD player)?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Dear CW,
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Have you all seen any responsible prognostication on what the time frame
> >> might be for the end of CD as a commercial format for music, and of the
> > DVD
> >> as a commercial format for video? Do you individually have any wise
> words
> > in
> >> this regard? I already heard in 1995 that the CD would soon be history
> > (not
> >> yet).
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Inquiringly, Tom Moore
> >>
> >> FIU
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Fri, 16 May 2014 09:44:00 -0400
> From:    Music Hunter <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: [MLA-L] RE: the end of the CD and DVD (and the CD and DVD
> player)?
>
> Often, our library clients replace discs that have been ruined, lost, or
> stolen.
>
> At the recent MLA conference in Atlanta, I learned that some music
> librarians have a problem with professors not returning CDs/DVDs that they
> "
> borrowed " for classes.
>
> Your sticker idea has merit, especially if you find a way to get folks to
> read it, etc. The downside is that unfortunately in this day & age, too
> many
> folks lack RESPECT for others or for regulations that are set for the
> public's own good.
>
> Just my humble opinion.....
>
> Your search for sound & video ends here!
> Jay Sonin, General Manager
> Music Hunter Distributing Company
> 4880 North Citation Drive, Suite # 101
> Delray Beach, Florida 33445-6552
> [log in to unmask]
> 561-450-7152
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Tom Fine
> Sent: Friday, May 16, 2014 9:34 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] [MLA-L] RE: the end of the CD and DVD (and the CD
> and DVD player)?
>
> Jay, for libraries, what's the alternative? Despite the drawbacks (mainly
> the fact that librarians and customers tend to rough-handle 5" discs so
> they
> become unusable relatively quickly), US copyright laws make other
> alternatives non-viable for many libraries and patrons.
>
> I hate to say something too nice about cassettes, but those were the most
> bullet-proof library-circulation medium. The local librarians are forever
> bitching about how quickly expensive audiobooks get unusable because one CD
> out of many has been ruined by a clumsy patron or librarian.
> They tell me that in the cassette era, it was rare to have to replace a
> tape. The audiobook publishers are not always cooperative about replacing a
> single CD. It's the same with music -- one jerk can wreck a CD in his car
> with one careless handling move, and then the library has to pay full
> frieght to replace it. Cassettes were harder to render unusable, as bad as
> they sounded.
>
> I was thinking about doing the following as charity for my local library
> system:  having a bunch of rolls of stickers printed up that list concise
> and clearly-stated guidelines for handling CDs -- don't touch the surface,
> don't put the disc face-down on a surface, don't scrape the disc over any
> rough surfaces, insert and remove from players carefully, etc -- and
> handing
> out rolls of stickers to each library in the system so they can stick them
> on CD cases.
>
> Same points apply to DVDs, but even more so since they become completely
> useless when they're scratched up.
>
> -- Tom Fine
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Music Hunter" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Friday, May 16, 2014 9:23 AM
> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] [MLA-L] RE: the end of the CD and DVD (and the CD
> and DVD player)?
>
>
> > Hi Tom,
> >
> > I can tell you that our CD/DVD sales to libraries are better than ever,
> > literally great.
> >
> > Jay
> >
> > Your search for sound & video ends here!
> > Jay Sonin, General Manager
> > Music Hunter Distributing Company
> > 4880 North Citation Drive, Suite # 101
> > Delray Beach, Florida 33445-6552
> > [log in to unmask]
> > 561-450-7152
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List
> > [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Tom Fine
> > Sent: Friday, May 16, 2014 8:58 AM
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] [MLA-L] RE: the end of the CD and DVD (and the CD
> > and DVD player)?
> >
> > Hi Jay:
> >
> > We keep hearing pundits and prognosticators talk about the "coming end of
> > physical media," but as you say the record companies keep cranking out
> CDs.
> > As far as I know Sony, and maybe other record companies, still own and
> > operate CD manufacturing plants, so it may be in their interest to keep
> CDs
> > going at least until plants and equipment are well amortized.
> >
> > Also, can anyone point to a musician or group that garnered tremendous
> radio
> > play and/or record-music sales WITHOUT a CD release? Yes, you can break
> > through with a song made in your basement and placed on YouTube, and you
> may
> > sell a few thousand downloads DIY'ing it through iTunes (and make a few
> > thousand pennies on the deal), but I think you still need physical media
> for
> > mass market penetration. I may be wrong on that, but I'd like to hear
> some
> > specific facts and examples that prove me wrong.
> >
> > Now here's what's changed. If you're Led Zeppelin in the late 1990s, you
> get
> > together with a remastering engineer, comb your vaults and maybe put out
> > "Anniversary Edition" multi-CD sets with some studio out-takes and some
> new
> > artwork. You could count on brisk sales, because the first CD edition of
> > your albums probably sounded like garbage and probably wasn't cut from
> the
> > first-generation master tape.  Fast forward to 2014, and you can't just
> do
> a
> > CD release. You need to go multi-media:
> > http://www.ledzeppelin.com/buy/
> > I think it's called "multi-platform" nowadays. At multiple price points,
> > with multiple content configurations. There is a download component, but
> > notice that it's in the background with the marketing. Physical products
> are
> > still front and center.
> >
> > What I'm not so sure about is, how does this all play out with
> > less-mainstream (ie slower-selling) artists and genres. In classical and
> > jazz, the strategy in recent years has been to stick with CDs but greatly
> > reduce the price-per-disc of content. So you have, for instance, the
> Mercury
> > and Decca and RCA box sets selling for less than $2 per disc, vs. more
> than
> > $10 per disc when the material was originally released in single-disc
> > format. At these price points, forget about margin for deluxe remastering
> > like Led Zep can do. The most popular classical and jazz titles, the ones
> > proven popular over time and the rare break-out "hit" of more recent
> > vintage, do present a business model enabling high-resolution mastering
> and
> > multi-format sales.
> >
> > I know from experience that these record companies watch the money like
> > hawks, and if something is out of print or hasn't been remastered since
> the
> > dawn of CDs, it's because their previous sales figures and future sales
> > projections tell them it won't be profitable to go any further with that
> > content. Sometimes, there is a niche player like a 3rd party vinyl
> reissuer,
> > who can make hay with specific titles ignored by the parent company, but
> > these are exceptions to the rule.
> >
> > Long and short, I think you'll be selling CDs well into old age, but it's
> > entirely possible that the universe of available content on CD will
> shrink
> > over time.
> >
> > -- Tom Fine
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Music Hunter" <[log in to unmask]>
> > To: <[log in to unmask]>
> > Sent: Friday, May 16, 2014 7:57 AM
> > Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] [MLA-L] RE: the end of the CD and DVD (and the CD
> > and DVD player)?
> >
> >
> >> Hi Tom & friends,
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Is there any evidence pointing to that happening?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I am still enjoying CDs obtained when CDs were first introduced in the
> > early
> >> '80's with no sign of self-degrading in over 30 years. I'm trying to
> think
> >> of what other products we have that have that still work as well as they
> > did
> >> when brand new.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Talk about value...
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Jay
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Your search for sound & video ends here!
> >>
> >> Jay Sonin, General Manager
> >> Music Hunter Distributing Company
> >> 4880 North Citation Drive, Suite # 101
> >> Delray Beach, Florida 33445-6552
> >> [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> >> 561-450-7152
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> From: Stephen Thomson Moore [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> >> Sent: Friday, May 16, 2014 7:33 AM
> >> To: Wagstaff, D John; Edmonds, Amy; [log in to unmask]
> >> Subject: Re: [MLA-L] RE: the end of the CD and DVD (and the CD and DVD
> >> player)?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Dear all,
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Another concern with the end of the CD and DVD seems to be that our
> > immense
> >> collections of Cds will self-degrade and be nothing more than shiny
> discs
> > in
> >> a few short years. What about that?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Best, Tom Moore
> >>
> >> FIU
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> From: <Wagstaff>, D John <[log in to unmask]>
> >> Reply-To: "Wagstaff, D John" <[log in to unmask]>
> >> Date: Thursday, May 15, 2014 5:54 PM
> >> To: "Edmonds, Amy" <[log in to unmask]>, "[log in to unmask]"
> >> <[log in to unmask]>
> >> Subject: [MLA-L] RE: the end of the CD and DVD (and the CD and DVD
> > player)?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I think maybe the issue is that, once we reach a tipping point with
> > e-books,
> >> the publishers might decide to move to an I-Tunes account-type
> > distribution
> >> model, i.e. a "one individual/one account, no libraries need apply thank
> > you
> >> very much have a nice day but get lost". We're already seeing this with
> > some
> >> textbooks, after all. Print surrogates will then become impossible to
> >> obtain, libraries are cut out of the equation, and first-sale doctrine
> is
> >> sacrificed to licensing agreements.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I don't write this in a "the-publisher-is-the-enemy" spirit, they
> clearly
> >> are only trying to make money and keep their businesses afloat, and
> > arguably
> >> if the roles were reversed we'd be doing the same. But I suspect that
> > that's
> >> definitely the commercial motivation behind the push towards e-books.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> John
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> John Wagstaff
> >>
> >> Head, Music & Performing Arts Library
> >>
> >> Interim Head, Literatures and Languages Library
> >>
> >> University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
> >>
> >> 1114 W. Nevada Street
> >>
> >> Urbana IL61801
> >>
> >> Tel. 217-244-4070
> >>
> >> e-mail: [log in to unmask]
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> From: Edmonds, Amy [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> >> Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2014 4:40 PM
> >> To: [log in to unmask]
> >> Subject: [MLA-L] RE: the end of the CD and DVD (and the CD and DVD
> > player)?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> The same thing that makes it easy to crank out e-books makes it easy to
> >> publish in paper!  Why are they whining?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I do read quite a bit on my kindle but for anything that I will be
> working
> >> with intellectually, I have to be able to put my sticky notes in it
> > (shhh!)
> >> and flip through the pages at will for the bits that I will recognize
> >> visually but can't remember well enough to do a good search on a device.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> From: Wagstaff, D John [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> >> Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2014 5:09 PM
> >> To: Stephen Thomson Moore; [log in to unmask]
> >> Subject: [MLA-L] RE: the end of the CD and DVD (and the CD and DVD
> > player)?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> To answer this question I'd pose another, which is: For how many years
> > have
> >> we been seeing magazines with the question "Is this the year of the
> > e-book?"
> >> on their cover? (my answer: at least 15, and my answer is always "no").
> In
> >> spite of publishers really, really wanting to push e-books, we're still
> a
> >> long way from having anything like a decent amount of e-books to offer
> in
> >> the performing arts.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> IMHO.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> John
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> From: Stephen Thomson Moore [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> >> Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2014 7:09 AM
> >> To: [log in to unmask]
> >> Subject: [MLA-L] the end of the CD and DVD (and the CD and DVD player)?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Dear CW,
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Have you all seen any responsible prognostication on what the time frame
> >> might be for the end of CD as a commercial format for music, and of the
> > DVD
> >> as a commercial format for video? Do you individually have any wise
> words
> > in
> >> this regard? I already heard in 1995 that the CD would soon be history
> > (not
> >> yet).
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Inquiringly, Tom Moore
> >>
> >> FIU
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Fri, 16 May 2014 09:00:01 -0500
> From:    Mark Durenberger <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: the end of the CD and DVD (and the CD and DVD player)?
>
> Oh man I'm with you on the vulnerability of the Cloud!  Back up your
> important stuff on two or three different (currently-playable) media and
> store them off-site (in one or more places).  Refresh as needed.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Mark Durenberger, CPBE
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tom Fine
> And wait until the majority of people have all their personal photos in
> "the
> cloud" and something goes very wrong like a cyber-warfare attack or
> something. I don't believe data can be "permanently" backed up in a way
> where it's easily
> retreivable like a printed book or black and white photo negative. It's
> much
> more a hope and pray
> thing with digital data, no matter how "fail safe" one thinks his system
> might be.
>
> -- Tom Fine
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Fri, 16 May 2014 12:58:06 -0400
> From:    Music Hunter <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: [MLA-L] Future of CDs
>
> I think that some/many in the general public have moved to downloads but
> fortunately our library sales are still very strong.
>
> I have a 24 year old daughter that used to ask me to get her CDs very often
> but not so for the past couple of years. I think that she has only asked
> for
> 1 CD so far in 2014.
>
> Jay
>
> Your search for sound & video ends here!
> Jay Sonin, General Manager
> Music Hunter Distributing Company
> 4880 North Citation Drive, Suite # 101
> Delray Beach, Florida 33445-6552
> [log in to unmask]
> 561-450-7152
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Richard Griscom [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Friday, May 16, 2014 11:29 AM
> To: MLA-L
> Subject: [MLA-L] Future of CDs
>
> The CD might not be dying anytime soon, but there is clearly a trend away
> from the purchase of physical objects toward the purchase of digital
> downloads:
>
>
> http://www.billboard.com/biz/articles/news/digital-and-mobile/5901188/cd-alb
> um-sales-fall-behind-album-downloads-is-2014-the
>
> Dick
>
> --
> Richard Griscom
> Head, Otto E. Albrecht Music Library and          office 215/898-3450
>   Eugene Ormandy Music and Media Center
> Interim Head, Fisher Fine Arts Library            office 215/573-4635
> University of Pennsylvania                 Philadelphia PA 19104-6206
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Fri, 16 May 2014 13:16:53 -0400
> From:    Tom Fine <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: [MLA-L] Future of CDs
>
> To my thinking, lossy downloads are the dumbest example of foolish
> over-paying for alleged
> "convenience." Only someone very mentally inept can't learn how to rip CDs
> into iTunes if they want
> to put the music on their devices. Meanwhile, CDs often cost less than the
> album price at iTunes
> (not always the case with Amazon, which generally has lower pricing for
> downloads). I'm OK in some
> cases to pay half or less CD pricing for 256 or 320kbps lossy files, but I
> have never paid a penny
> for 128kbps, and I only pay for the less-lossy versions when the CD is
> either unavailable or
> ridicu-priced. Fair pricing to me is: $5 or less per album for lossy (256
> or 320kbps) downloads,
> minus album art; $5-10 for a real-deal manufactured CD with a real-deal
> case and booklet; $10-15 per
> album for 96/24 or 192/24 downloads including a PDF of the CD booklet. The
> market right now
> generally provides that kind of pricing for CDs, but not for either lossy
> or high-rez downloads, so
> I buy mostly CDs right now.
>
> -- Tom Fine
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Music Hunter" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Friday, May 16, 2014 12:58 PM
> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] [MLA-L] Future of CDs
>
>
> >I think that some/many in the general public have moved to downloads but
> > fortunately our library sales are still very strong.
> >
> > I have a 24 year old daughter that used to ask me to get her CDs very
> often
> > but not so for the past couple of years. I think that she has only asked
> for
> > 1 CD so far in 2014.
> >
> > Jay
> >
> > Your search for sound & video ends here!
> > Jay Sonin, General Manager
> > Music Hunter Distributing Company
> > 4880 North Citation Drive, Suite # 101
> > Delray Beach, Florida 33445-6552
> > [log in to unmask]
> > 561-450-7152
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Richard Griscom [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> > Sent: Friday, May 16, 2014 11:29 AM
> > To: MLA-L
> > Subject: [MLA-L] Future of CDs
> >
> > The CD might not be dying anytime soon, but there is clearly a trend away
> > from the purchase of physical objects toward the purchase of digital
> > downloads:
> >
> >
> http://www.billboard.com/biz/articles/news/digital-and-mobile/5901188/cd-alb
> > um-sales-fall-behind-album-downloads-is-2014-the
> >
> > Dick
> >
> > --
> > Richard Griscom
> > Head, Otto E. Albrecht Music Library and          office 215/898-3450
> >  Eugene Ormandy Music and Media Center
> > Interim Head, Fisher Fine Arts Library            office 215/573-4635
> > University of Pennsylvania                 Philadelphia PA 19104-6206
> >
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Fri, 16 May 2014 10:35:22 -0700
> From:    Stewart Gooderman <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: [MLA-L] Future of CDs
>
> Am I wrong in this? It's my understanding that downloads do not =
> represent property. I can purchase a CD, then sell it to a friend or a =
> second hand business, but I can't do the same with a download, even if I =
> remove all traced of it from my possessions.
>
> It's this perception that makes me continually by CDs rather than =
> downloads (putting aside sound quality for the moment.)
>
> Stewart Gooderman aka DrG
>
> On May 16, 2014, at 10:16 AM, Tom Fine <[log in to unmask]> =
> wrote:
>
> > To my thinking, lossy downloads are the dumbest example of foolish =
> over-paying for alleged "convenience." Only someone very mentally inept =
> can't learn how to rip CDs into iTunes if they want to put the music on =
> their devices. Meanwhile, CDs often cost less than the album price at =
> iTunes (not always the case with Amazon, which generally has lower =
> pricing for downloads). I'm OK in some cases to pay half or less CD =
> pricing for 256 or 320kbps lossy files, but I have never paid a penny =
> for 128kbps, and I only pay for the less-lossy versions when the CD is =
> either unavailable or ridicu-priced. Fair pricing to me is: $5 or less =
> per album for lossy (256 or 320kbps) downloads, minus album art; $5-10 =
> for a real-deal manufactured CD with a real-deal case and booklet; =
> $10-15 per album for 96/24 or 192/24 downloads including a PDF of the CD =
> booklet. The market right now generally provides that kind of pricing =
> for CDs, but not for either lossy or high-rez downloads, so I buy mostly =
> CDs right now.
> >=20
> > -- Tom Fine
> >=20
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Fri, 16 May 2014 14:07:08 -0400
> From:    Tom Fine <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: [MLA-L] Future of CDs
>
> You may well be technically correct, but I know that in practice,
> downloads get "shared" all over
> the place. Any attempts at ownership-verification, watermark enforcement
> or any other mechanisms to
> prevent any but the most brazen "sharing" have failed and invoked the ire
> of consumers. That said,
> given what we discussed about the fragility of hard drive, vulnerability
> of "cloud" storage, you
> sure own something more substantial when you buy a physical CD.
>
> -- Tom Fine
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Stewart Gooderman" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Friday, May 16, 2014 1:35 PM
> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] [MLA-L] Future of CDs
>
>
> > Am I wrong in this? It's my understanding that downloads do not
> represent property. I can purchase
> > a CD, then sell it to a friend or a second hand business, but I can't do
> the same with a download,
> > even if I remove all traced of it from my possessions.
> >
> > It's this perception that makes me continually by CDs rather than
> downloads (putting aside sound
> > quality for the moment.)
> >
> > Stewart Gooderman aka DrG
> >
> > On May 16, 2014, at 10:16 AM, Tom Fine <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
> >
> >> To my thinking, lossy downloads are the dumbest example of foolish
> over-paying for alleged
> >> "convenience." Only someone very mentally inept can't learn how to rip
> CDs into iTunes if they
> >> want to put the music on their devices. Meanwhile, CDs often cost less
> than the album price at
> >> iTunes (not always the case with Amazon, which generally has lower
> pricing for downloads). I'm OK
> >> in some cases to pay half or less CD pricing for 256 or 320kbps lossy
> files, but I have never
> >> paid a penny for 128kbps, and I only pay for the less-lossy versions
> when the CD is either
> >> unavailable or ridicu-priced. Fair pricing to me is: $5 or less per
> album for lossy (256 or
> >> 320kbps) downloads, minus album art; $5-10 for a real-deal manufactured
> CD with a real-deal case
> >> and booklet; $10-15 per album for 96/24 or 192/24 downloads including a
> PDF of the CD booklet.
> >> The market right now generally provides that kind of pricing for CDs,
> but not for either lossy or
> >> high-rez downloads, so I buy mostly CDs right now.
> >>
> >> -- Tom Fine
> >>
> >
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Fri, 16 May 2014 17:40:32 -0400
> From:    Rebecca Feynberg <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: the end of the CD and DVD (and the CD and DVD player)?
>
> The Library of Congress is investigating the aging of CD-Audio media using
> an accelerated aging process.
>
> http://www.loc.gov/preservation/resources/rt/studyofCDlongevity.pdf
>
> Here is one of many articles from the last few days about it, "The Library
> of Congress is destroying CDs to save CDs"
>
> http://www.theverge.com/2014/5/14/5715972/how-do-cds-age-research
>
>
> Those interested in donating old CDs to Library of Congress for destructive
> testing can email [log in to unmask]
>
>
> --Rebecca
>
>
> On Fri, May 16, 2014 at 10:00 AM, Mark Durenberger <[log in to unmask]
> >wrote:
>
> > Oh man I'm with you on the vulnerability of the Cloud!  Back up your
> > important stuff on two or three different (currently-playable) media and
> > store them off-site (in one or more places).  Refresh as needed.
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Mark Durenberger, CPBE
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message----- From: Tom Fine
> >
> > And wait until the majority of people have all their personal photos in
> > "the cloud" and something goes very wrong like a cyber-warfare attack or
> > something. I don't believe data can be "permanently" backed up in a way
> > where it's easily
> > retreivable like a printed book or black and white photo negative. It's
> > much more a hope and pray
> > thing with digital data, no matter how "fail safe" one thinks his system
> > might be.
> >
> > -- Tom Fine
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Fri, 16 May 2014 17:57:25 -0400
> From:    Tom Fine <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: the end of the CD and DVD (and the CD and DVD player)?
>
> Realizing it's just a spec microbe in the time continuum, the 30-year
> period I've owned my first CD
> purchases has done nothing audible to them. I just popped one in the
> player, back to 1984. Really
> bad made-in-Germany remaster of "Van Halen II". I think the first US-made
> discs were 1985 or 1986,
> Sony from Terre Haute. I think Philips-DuPont Optical in North Carolina
> got going by late 1986.
>
> LOC should test what fingerprints do to the plastic, even if they are
> cleaned off months or years
> after being gooped on. I've cleaned fingerprints off library CDs and there
> were still little
> off-color areas remaining, I assume the oil un-cleared the plastic somehow
> (yep, I sure didn't take
> any chemistry classes so I have no idea about the correct terminology).
>
> -- Tom Fine
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Rebecca Feynberg" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Friday, May 16, 2014 5:40 PM
> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] the end of the CD and DVD (and the CD and DVD
> player)?
>
>
> > The Library of Congress is investigating the aging of CD-Audio media
> using
> > an accelerated aging process.
> >
> > http://www.loc.gov/preservation/resources/rt/studyofCDlongevity.pdf
> >
> > Here is one of many articles from the last few days about it, "The
> Library
> > of Congress is destroying CDs to save CDs"
> >
> > http://www.theverge.com/2014/5/14/5715972/how-do-cds-age-research
> >
> >
> > Those interested in donating old CDs to Library of Congress for
> destructive
> > testing can email [log in to unmask]
> >
> >
> > --Rebecca
> >
> >
> > On Fri, May 16, 2014 at 10:00 AM, Mark Durenberger <
> [log in to unmask]>wrote:
> >
> >> Oh man I'm with you on the vulnerability of the Cloud!  Back up your
> >> important stuff on two or three different (currently-playable) media and
> >> store them off-site (in one or more places).  Refresh as needed.
> >>
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >>
> >> Mark Durenberger, CPBE
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message----- From: Tom Fine
> >>
> >> And wait until the majority of people have all their personal photos in
> >> "the cloud" and something goes very wrong like a cyber-warfare attack or
> >> something. I don't believe data can be "permanently" backed up in a way
> >> where it's easily
> >> retreivable like a printed book or black and white photo negative. It's
> >> much more a hope and pray
> >> thing with digital data, no matter how "fail safe" one thinks his system
> >> might be.
> >>
> >> -- Tom Fine
> >>
> >
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Fri, 16 May 2014 17:12:46 -0700
> From:    Frank Scott <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: [MLA-L] Future of CDs
>
> Tom
>
> I don't know what circles you move in but I know a lot of people who
> neither
> nor care to know how to rip CDs and none of them are mentally inept. In my
> business I deal with a lot of older folks who fall into that category - I'm
> 71 and have no problems but that's because I was trained as engineer and I
> need to know about all the latest advances because of my business - which I
> will soon be closing. But I think that there are a lot of people my age and
> older who either are not interested in the internet (yes, it's true) or
> just
> use a computer for email.
>
> I do agree with you that paying for 128 kbps files is ridiculous but I
> don't
> think any of the official download services go that low. Personally I wish
> there was the option to get files in FLAC formbut there are very few
> organizations offering this.
>
> Frank
>
> Frank Scott
> Roots & Rhythm
> P.O. Box 837
> El Cerrito, CA 94530, USA
> [log in to unmask]
> 510-526-8373
> TOLL FREE:  888-ROOTS-66
> www.rootsandrhythm.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Tom Fine
> Sent: Friday, May 16, 2014 10:17 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] [MLA-L] Future of CDs
>
> To my thinking, lossy downloads are the dumbest example of foolish
> over-paying for alleged "convenience." Only someone very mentally inept
> can't learn how to rip CDs into iTunes if they want to put the music on
> their devices. Meanwhile, CDs often cost less than the album price at
> iTunes
> (not always the case with Amazon, which generally has lower pricing for
> downloads). I'm OK in some cases to pay half or less CD pricing for 256 or
> 320kbps lossy files, but I have never paid a penny for 128kbps, and I only
> pay for the less-lossy versions when the CD is either unavailable or
> ridicu-priced. Fair pricing to me is: $5 or less per album for lossy (256
> or
> 320kbps) downloads, minus album art; $5-10 for a real-deal manufactured CD
> with a real-deal case and booklet; $10-15 per album for 96/24 or 192/24
> downloads including a PDF of the CD booklet. The market right now generally
> provides that kind of pricing for CDs, but not for either lossy or high-rez
> downloads, so I buy mostly CDs right now.
>
> -- Tom Fine
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Music Hunter" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Friday, May 16, 2014 12:58 PM
> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] [MLA-L] Future of CDs
>
>
> >I think that some/many in the general public have moved to downloads but
> > fortunately our library sales are still very strong.
> >
> > I have a 24 year old daughter that used to ask me to get her CDs very
> often
> > but not so for the past couple of years. I think that she has only asked
> for
> > 1 CD so far in 2014.
> >
> > Jay
> >
> > Your search for sound & video ends here!
> > Jay Sonin, General Manager
> > Music Hunter Distributing Company
> > 4880 North Citation Drive, Suite # 101
> > Delray Beach, Florida 33445-6552
> > [log in to unmask]
> > 561-450-7152
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Richard Griscom [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> > Sent: Friday, May 16, 2014 11:29 AM
> > To: MLA-L
> > Subject: [MLA-L] Future of CDs
> >
> > The CD might not be dying anytime soon, but there is clearly a trend away
> > from the purchase of physical objects toward the purchase of digital
> > downloads:
> >
> >
>
> http://www.billboard.com/biz/articles/news/digital-and-mobile/5901188/cd-alb
> > um-sales-fall-behind-album-downloads-is-2014-the
> >
> > Dick
> >
> > --
> > Richard Griscom
> > Head, Otto E. Albrecht Music Library and          office 215/898-3450
> >  Eugene Ormandy Music and Media Center
> > Interim Head, Fisher Fine Arts Library            office 215/573-4635
> > University of Pennsylvania                 Philadelphia PA 19104-6206
> >
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Fri, 16 May 2014 20:49:01 -0400
> From:    Tom Fine <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: [MLA-L] Future of CDs
>
> Hi Frank:
>
> I didn't figure a typical old person would know about, care about or use
> an iPod, much less pay for
> music downloads. So they definitely don't fit into the class of people I
> was talking about. I was
> more referring to people who have more money than initiative and choose to
> pay for low-quality
> downloads to save the few minutes it takes to rip a CD into iTunes. The
> whole idea of paying more
> for less is knuckleheaded, in my opinion.
>
> By the way, do you write the descriptive text on your website? This is
> just priceless, the beginning
> of the description of the JSP Chet Atkins set:
>
> "Two things are certain: Chet Atkins was one hell of a guitar player, and
> his recordings grew less
> interesting after 1954, when he stopped writing material and started
> relying on songwriters such as
> Chopin and Bach, neither of whom could write a country song to save his
> life. But then RCA had that
> effect on everyone."
>
> -- Tom Fine
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Frank Scott" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Friday, May 16, 2014 8:12 PM
> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] [MLA-L] Future of CDs
>
>
> > Tom
> >
> > I don't know what circles you move in but I know a lot of people who
> neither
> > nor care to know how to rip CDs and none of them are mentally inept. In
> my
> > business I deal with a lot of older folks who fall into that category -
> I'm
> > 71 and have no problems but that's because I was trained as engineer and
> I
> > need to know about all the latest advances because of my business -
> which I
> > will soon be closing. But I think that there are a lot of people my age
> and
> > older who either are not interested in the internet (yes, it's true) or
> just
> > use a computer for email.
> >
> > I do agree with you that paying for 128 kbps files is ridiculous but I
> don't
> > think any of the official download services go that low. Personally I
> wish
> > there was the option to get files in FLAC formbut there are very few
> > organizations offering this.
> >
> > Frank
> >
> > Frank Scott
> > Roots & Rhythm
> > P.O. Box 837
> > El Cerrito, CA 94530, USA
> > [log in to unmask]
> > 510-526-8373
> > TOLL FREE:  888-ROOTS-66
> > www.rootsandrhythm.com
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List
> > [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Tom Fine
> > Sent: Friday, May 16, 2014 10:17 AM
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] [MLA-L] Future of CDs
> >
> > To my thinking, lossy downloads are the dumbest example of foolish
> > over-paying for alleged "convenience." Only someone very mentally inept
> > can't learn how to rip CDs into iTunes if they want to put the music on
> > their devices. Meanwhile, CDs often cost less than the album price at
> iTunes
> > (not always the case with Amazon, which generally has lower pricing for
> > downloads). I'm OK in some cases to pay half or less CD pricing for 256
> or
> > 320kbps lossy files, but I have never paid a penny for 128kbps, and I
> only
> > pay for the less-lossy versions when the CD is either unavailable or
> > ridicu-priced. Fair pricing to me is: $5 or less per album for lossy
> (256 or
> > 320kbps) downloads, minus album art; $5-10 for a real-deal manufactured
> CD
> > with a real-deal case and booklet; $10-15 per album for 96/24 or 192/24
> > downloads including a PDF of the CD booklet. The market right now
> generally
> > provides that kind of pricing for CDs, but not for either lossy or
> high-rez
> > downloads, so I buy mostly CDs right now.
> >
> > -- Tom Fine
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Music Hunter" <[log in to unmask]>
> > To: <[log in to unmask]>
> > Sent: Friday, May 16, 2014 12:58 PM
> > Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] [MLA-L] Future of CDs
> >
> >
> >>I think that some/many in the general public have moved to downloads but
> >> fortunately our library sales are still very strong.
> >>
> >> I have a 24 year old daughter that used to ask me to get her CDs very
> > often
> >> but not so for the past couple of years. I think that she has only asked
> > for
> >> 1 CD so far in 2014.
> >>
> >> Jay
> >>
> >> Your search for sound & video ends here!
> >> Jay Sonin, General Manager
> >> Music Hunter Distributing Company
> >> 4880 North Citation Drive, Suite # 101
> >> Delray Beach, Florida 33445-6552
> >> [log in to unmask]
> >> 561-450-7152
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Richard Griscom [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> >> Sent: Friday, May 16, 2014 11:29 AM
> >> To: MLA-L
> >> Subject: [MLA-L] Future of CDs
> >>
> >> The CD might not be dying anytime soon, but there is clearly a trend
> away
> >> from the purchase of physical objects toward the purchase of digital
> >> downloads:
> >>
> >>
> >
> http://www.billboard.com/biz/articles/news/digital-and-mobile/5901188/cd-alb
> >> um-sales-fall-behind-album-downloads-is-2014-the
> >>
> >> Dick
> >>
> >> --
> >> Richard Griscom
> >> Head, Otto E. Albrecht Music Library and          office 215/898-3450
> >>  Eugene Ormandy Music and Media Center
> >> Interim Head, Fisher Fine Arts Library            office 215/573-4635
> >> University of Pennsylvania                 Philadelphia PA 19104-6206
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Fri, 16 May 2014 20:42:31 -0400
> From:    "Randy A. Riddle" <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: [MLA-L] Future of CDs
>
> On the overall market for the cd and what the future could hold, it might
> be instructive to look at what's happening with the movie industry right
> now.
>
> Currently, the studios are moving towards streaming and download models as
> they see sales of physical discs decline and fewer retail outlets to carry
> them.  Screen Archives Entertainment has been licensing older films for
> release on blu-ray from the studios in limited editions of 3,000 copies -
> basically, the studio has a hi-def master, but doesn't think they can sell
> enough copies to justify pressing a run of the discs.
>
> In general, the new release of older catalogue titles has stopped on dvd,
> replaced by moving the titles to "manufacture on demand".  The older titles
> released on blu-ray have been limited to some of the "big name" classics or
> films featuring specific stars that the studios know they can generate
> volume on and get in retail outlets like Walmart.
>
> Warners hopes to have pretty much every catalogue title they own available
> on MOD eventually.  At the same time, they're selling digital download
> versions of the films on sites like Vudu and offering a monthly streaming
> service.
>
> Of course, with MOD, you're paying more for catalogue titles and getting a
> "burned" disc that will probably not be as stable in the long run as a
> pressed disc.
>
> Smaller "indie" and art house distributors are still pressing dvds, but
> some smaller restoration projects are going the MOD route since the
> audience is fairly small and its difficult to predict how well they will
> sell.
>
> My guess is that the first record label to offer a MOD service for out of
> print or catalogue titles will set off a trend where older albums are taken
> out of print on pressed compact discs, similar to what's happening with the
> movie studios, and only new popular releases or major "star" reissues that
> can generate volume get a press run.
>
> Younger listeners aren't buying physical product as much and are moving to
> online downloads or streaming.  Eventually, physical media will become a
> kind of "niche" product - the real question is how long will it be before
> pressing plants start shutting down so that pressing a cd becomes a more
> expensive "boutique" proposition.
>
> A similar thing has happened with the lp.  It never really "died", but has
> continued as a specialty product.  It's not as cheap as it was in the 80s
> to press up a run of lps - there are fewer pressing plants handling much
> less volume - and represents a small part of the overall music market.
>
> Randy
>
> ______________________
> Randy A. Riddle
> [log in to unmask]
> www.coolcatdaddy.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Fri, 16 May 2014 19:56:54 -0600
> From:    Paul Stamler <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: [MLA-L] Future of CDs
>
> On 5/16/2014 6:12 PM, Frank Scott wrote:
> > I do agree with you that paying for 128 kbps files is ridiculous but I
> don't
> > think any of the official download services go that low. Personally I
> wish
> > there was the option to get files in FLAC formbut there are very few
> > organizations offering this.
>
> Smithsonian/Folkways being the notable exception.
>
> Peace,
> Paul
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Fri, 16 May 2014 21:22:58 -0400
> From:    Tom Fine <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: [MLA-L] Future of CDs
>
> The only kind of music "rental" model that may work, if it's priced very
> cheap, is all-you-can-eat
> with very large libraries of choices and working across all devices.
> Spotify and the like are the
> pioneers there. I can't see how the music companies make money letting
> those services have access to
> their libraries, but it seems inevitable that a large amount of music
> consumption will go that way.
> The only thing worse-sounding than 128kbps MP3 is streaming Spotify and
> Pandora.
>
> The major difference between movies and music is that movies are a fully
> emersive experience and
> there are always people willing to pay premium prices for that experience.
> Especially for the
> younger generation, music is background noise at commodity prices or
> stolen for no price.
>
> -- Tom Fine
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Randy A. Riddle" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Friday, May 16, 2014 8:42 PM
> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] [MLA-L] Future of CDs
>
>
> > On the overall market for the cd and what the future could hold, it might
> > be instructive to look at what's happening with the movie industry right
> > now.
> >
> > Currently, the studios are moving towards streaming and download models
> as
> > they see sales of physical discs decline and fewer retail outlets to
> carry
> > them.  Screen Archives Entertainment has been licensing older films for
> > release on blu-ray from the studios in limited editions of 3,000 copies -
> > basically, the studio has a hi-def master, but doesn't think they can
> sell
> > enough copies to justify pressing a run of the discs.
> >
> > In general, the new release of older catalogue titles has stopped on dvd,
> > replaced by moving the titles to "manufacture on demand".  The older
> titles
> > released on blu-ray have been limited to some of the "big name" classics
> or
> > films featuring specific stars that the studios know they can generate
> > volume on and get in retail outlets like Walmart.
> >
> > Warners hopes to have pretty much every catalogue title they own
> available
> > on MOD eventually.  At the same time, they're selling digital download
> > versions of the films on sites like Vudu and offering a monthly streaming
> > service.
> >
> > Of course, with MOD, you're paying more for catalogue titles and getting
> a
> > "burned" disc that will probably not be as stable in the long run as a
> > pressed disc.
> >
> > Smaller "indie" and art house distributors are still pressing dvds, but
> > some smaller restoration projects are going the MOD route since the
> > audience is fairly small and its difficult to predict how well they will
> > sell.
> >
> > My guess is that the first record label to offer a MOD service for out of
> > print or catalogue titles will set off a trend where older albums are
> taken
> > out of print on pressed compact discs, similar to what's happening with
> the
> > movie studios, and only new popular releases or major "star" reissues
> that
> > can generate volume get a press run.
> >
> > Younger listeners aren't buying physical product as much and are moving
> to
> > online downloads or streaming.  Eventually, physical media will become a
> > kind of "niche" product - the real question is how long will it be before
> > pressing plants start shutting down so that pressing a cd becomes a more
> > expensive "boutique" proposition.
> >
> > A similar thing has happened with the lp.  It never really "died", but
> has
> > continued as a specialty product.  It's not as cheap as it was in the 80s
> > to press up a run of lps - there are fewer pressing plants handling much
> > less volume - and represents a small part of the overall music market.
> >
> > Randy
> >
> > ______________________
> > Randy A. Riddle
> > [log in to unmask]
> > www.coolcatdaddy.com
> >
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Fri, 16 May 2014 21:41:36 -0400
> From:    "Randy A. Riddle" <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: [MLA-L] Future of CDs
>
> "All you can stream" music rental is really taking the place of radio for a
> younger generation.  With the way that you can personalize the streaming
> experience to suit your own taste, it makes having a cd or download less
> interesting.
>
> With movies and tv shows, the "kids" I see at college are watching more and
> more on portable devices, like an iPad or laptop.  On move-in day, you
> don't see as many with a tv they're bringing into the dorm room.
>
> I've seen some articles looking at the current crop of college students and
> how they're less interested in physical media, not developing the "habit"
> of collecting.  If you think about it, even someone only slightly
> interested in music in the 70s or 80s, would have had a small collection of
> 8-tracks, cassettes or lps that they listened to in their car or dorm room.
>
> If you think about it, the movie towards something "virtual" makes sense
> when you're in your late teens and twenties and moving around a lot.  It's
> less "stuff" to deal with.
>
> Randy
>
> __________________
> Randy A. Riddle
> [log in to unmask]
> www.coolcatdaddy.com
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, May 16, 2014 at 9:22 PM, Tom Fine <[log in to unmask]
> >wrote:
>
> > The only kind of music "rental" model that may work, if it's priced very
> > cheap, is all-you-can-eat with very large libraries of choices and
> working
> > across all devices. Spotify and the like are the pioneers there. I can't
> > see how the music companies make money letting those services have access
> > to their libraries, but it seems inevitable that a large amount of music
> > consumption will go that way. The only thing worse-sounding than 128kbps
> > MP3 is streaming Spotify and Pandora.
> >
> > The major difference between movies and music is that movies are a fully
> > emersive experience and there are always people willing to pay premium
> > prices for that experience. Especially for the younger generation, music
> is
> > background noise at commodity prices or stolen for no price.
> >
> > -- Tom Fine
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Randy A. Riddle" <
> > [log in to unmask]>
> > To: <[log in to unmask]>
> > Sent: Friday, May 16, 2014 8:42 PM
> >
> > Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] [MLA-L] Future of CDs
> >
> >
> >  On the overall market for the cd and what the future could hold, it
> might
> >> be instructive to look at what's happening with the movie industry right
> >> now.
> >>
> >> Currently, the studios are moving towards streaming and download models
> as
> >> they see sales of physical discs decline and fewer retail outlets to
> carry
> >> them.  Screen Archives Entertainment has been licensing older films for
> >> release on blu-ray from the studios in limited editions of 3,000 copies
> -
> >> basically, the studio has a hi-def master, but doesn't think they can
> sell
> >> enough copies to justify pressing a run of the discs.
> >>
> >> In general, the new release of older catalogue titles has stopped on
> dvd,
> >> replaced by moving the titles to "manufacture on demand".  The older
> >> titles
> >> released on blu-ray have been limited to some of the "big name" classics
> >> or
> >> films featuring specific stars that the studios know they can generate
> >> volume on and get in retail outlets like Walmart.
> >>
> >> Warners hopes to have pretty much every catalogue title they own
> available
> >> on MOD eventually.  At the same time, they're selling digital download
> >> versions of the films on sites like Vudu and offering a monthly
> streaming
> >> service.
> >>
> >> Of course, with MOD, you're paying more for catalogue titles and
> getting a
> >> "burned" disc that will probably not be as stable in the long run as a
> >> pressed disc.
> >>
> >> Smaller "indie" and art house distributors are still pressing dvds, but
> >> some smaller restoration projects are going the MOD route since the
> >> audience is fairly small and its difficult to predict how well they will
> >> sell.
> >>
> >> My guess is that the first record label to offer a MOD service for out
> of
> >> print or catalogue titles will set off a trend where older albums are
> >> taken
> >> out of print on pressed compact discs, similar to what's happening with
> >> the
> >> movie studios, and only new popular releases or major "star" reissues
> that
> >> can generate volume get a press run.
> >>
> >> Younger listeners aren't buying physical product as much and are moving
> to
> >> online downloads or streaming.  Eventually, physical media will become a
> >> kind of "niche" product - the real question is how long will it be
> before
> >> pressing plants start shutting down so that pressing a cd becomes a more
> >> expensive "boutique" proposition.
> >>
> >> A similar thing has happened with the lp.  It never really "died", but
> has
> >> continued as a specialty product.  It's not as cheap as it was in the
> 80s
> >> to press up a run of lps - there are fewer pressing plants handling much
> >> less volume - and represents a small part of the overall music market.
> >>
> >> Randy
> >>
> >> ______________________
> >> Randy A. Riddle
> >> [log in to unmask]
> >> www.coolcatdaddy.com
> >>
> >>
> >>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Sat, 17 May 2014 02:59:43 +0100
> From:    CJB <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: <No subject given>
>
> RISKS-LIST: Risks-Forum Digest  Friday 15 May 2014  Volume 27 : Issue 93
>
> Date: May 16, 2014 at 12:49:14 AM EDT
> From: Dewayne Hendricks <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Can This Web Be Saved? Mozilla Accepts DRM, and We All Lose
>   (Danny O'Brien via Dave Farber)
>
> Danny O'brien, EFF, 14 May 2014
> <https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2014/05/mozilla-and-drm>
>
> It's official: the last holdout for the open web has fallen. Flanked on all
> sides by Google, Microsoft, Opera, and (it appears) Safari's support and
> promotion of the EME DRM-in-HTML standard, Mozilla is giving in to pressure
> from Hollywood, Netflix, et al, and will be implementing its own
> third-party
> version of DRM. It will be rolled out in Desktop Firefox later this
> year. Mozilla's CTO, Andreas Gal, says that Mozilla ``has little choice.''
> Mozilla's Chair, Mitchell Baker adds, ``Mozilla cannot change the industry
> on
> DRM at this point.''
>
> At EFF, we disagree. We've had over a decade of watching this ratchet at
> work, and we know where it can lead. Technologists implement DRM with great
> reticence, because they can see it's not a meaningful solution to anything
> but rather a font of endless problems. It doesn't prevent infringement,
> which continues regardless. Instead, it reduces the security of our
> devices,
> reduces user trust, makes finding and reporting of bugs legally risky,
> eliminates fair use rights, undermines competition, promotes secrecy, and
> circumvents open standards.
>
> It's clear from the tone of Gal and Baker's comments, and our own
> discussions with Mozilla, that you'll find no technologist there who is
> happy with this step. The fact that Mozilla, in opposition to its mission,
> had to prepare and design this feature in secret without being able to
> consult the developers and users who make up its community is an indication
> of how much of a contradiction DRM is in a pro-user open-source browser.
>
> Unchecked, that contradiction is only going to grow. Mozilla's DRM
> code,imported from Adobe as a closed-source binary, will sit in a cordoned
> sandbox, simultaneously Mozilla's responsibility but beyond its
> control. Mozilla will be responsible for updates to the DRM blackbox, which
> means users will have to navigate browser updates that will either fix
> security bugs or strip features from their video watching. Mozillians have
> already been warned of the danger of talking too much about how DRM works
> (and doesn't work), lest they trigger the provisions in the Digital
> Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) that forbid `trafficking' in circumvention
> knowledge.
>
> Baker may think that Mozilla cannot change the industry on its own (despite
> it having done so many years ago). Sadly, it changes the industry by
> accepting DRM. It is these repeated compromises to the needs of DRM
> advocates by tech company after tech company that are changing the nature
> of
> personal computing, transforming it into a sector that is dominated by
> established interests and produces locked-down devices, monitored and
> managed by everyone but their users.
>
> Past experience has shown that standing up to DRM and calling it out does
> have an effect. As we have said to the W3C, and Cory Doctorow spells out to
> Mozilla in this Guardian article, we can do much more to fight the negative
> consequences of DRM than simply attempt to mitigate the damage of its
> adoption. [...]
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Fri, 16 May 2014 20:03:51 -0700
> From:    Lou Judson <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: [MLA-L] Future of CDs
>
> I have never heard it myself, but I've been told that XM satellite =
> "radio" is the worst sounding medium around. Izzit true?
>
> ALL pubic radio is distributed via 128 (mono) and 256k MP2, and I hear =
> some good stuff on NPR occasionally, in the car and clock radio =
> mainly...
>
> <L>
> Lou Judson
> Intuitive Audio
> 415-883-2689
>
> On May 16, 2014, at 6:22 PM, Tom Fine wrote:
>
> The only thing worse-sounding than 128kbps MP3 is streaming Spotify and =
> Pandora.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Fri, 16 May 2014 22:38:00 -0500
> From:    "[log in to unmask]" <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: [MLA-L] Future of CDs
>
> Yes, it's true. I have SiriusXM. I've been listening to mainly 75 & 76,
> the classical channels, and the OTR channel. The 40s is not currently
> available, having been hijacked for Billy Joel for a period of some months.
>
> The sound is very artifacted. There is a lack of hi freq content, a
> great deal of dynamic compression, and  - get this, and this is a big
> one - signal is lost going under a bridge or pulling into the gas
> station, or into the garage. That is looking back to AM radio.
>
> I can also listen to 75 & 76 in the house as I get those 2 channels on
> Dish Network. There must be more bandwidth on satellite, as the
> artifacting, it's there, is not nearly as bad. Compression is.
>
> joe salerno
>
> On 5/16/2014 10:03 PM, Lou Judson wrote:
> > I have never heard it myself, but I've been told that XM satellite
> "radio" is the worst sounding medium around. Izzit true?
> >
> > ALL pubic radio is distributed via 128 (mono) and 256k MP2, and I hear
> some good stuff on NPR occasionally, in the car and clock radio mainly...
> >
> > <L>
> > Lou Judson
> > Intuitive Audio
> > 415-883-2689
> >
> > On May 16, 2014, at 6:22 PM, Tom Fine wrote:
> >
> > The only thing worse-sounding than 128kbps MP3 is streaming Spotify and
> Pandora.
> >
>
> --
> Joe Salerno
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of ARSCLIST Digest - 15 May 2014 to 16 May 2014 (#2014-132)
> ***************************************************************
>

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