LISTSERV mailing list manager LISTSERV 16.0

Help for PCCLIST Archives


PCCLIST Archives

PCCLIST Archives


PCCLIST@LISTSERV.LOC.GOV


View:

Message:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Topic:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Author:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

Font:

Monospaced Font

LISTSERV Archives

LISTSERV Archives

PCCLIST Home

PCCLIST Home

PCCLIST  May 2014

PCCLIST May 2014

Subject:

Re: Dates for Spirits

From:

"Laurence S. Creider" <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Program for Cooperative Cataloging <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Wed, 14 May 2014 12:12:58 -0600

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (338 lines)

At one point in time, our gifts form included a required field for phone
number. Some gifts came from deceased donors, and I had a hard time
explaining that I did not know their area code, let alone their phone
numbers. I suppose that e-mails would just go to the ether, so to speak.

By definition spirits would not have an address, even if they did have a
"haunt." If the spirit is the spirit of a human individual and presumed
to have been connected to a body at some point, then there would be a
birthplace and date of birth. Otherwise not. No death date in either
case. The question of gender and occupation would depend on the religious
tenets involved (which are likely to be somewhat less than orthodox
anything and could be those of the one recording the information or those
attributed to the spirit). Could one call Beethoven, Ludwig van,
1770-1827 (Spirit), a decomposer?

I must say that I like Richard Moore's suggestion of linking the spirit to
the name of the individual reporting the work of the spirit. "Channeled,"
may not be appropriate in all cases, however.



Larry
--
Laurence S. Creider
Head, Archives and Special Collections Dept.
University Library
New Mexico State University
Las Cruces, NM 88003
Work: 575-646-4756
Fax: 575-646-7477
[log in to unmask]

On Wed, May 14, 2014 10:40 am, Stephen Hearn wrote:
> What attribute information would be appropriate to record when describing
> the spirit of a person? Does a spirit have a birthplace? occupation?
> gender? current address?
>
> Stephen
>
>
> On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 11:25 AM, Matthew C. Haugen <
> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>> I suppose it depends on your theological disposition whether dates of
>> biological birth and death correspond with dates of incarnation and
>> disembodiment of the spirit. Leaving that aside, we could also or
>> instead
>> record the spirit's presumably later dates of activity in 046 $s and/or
>> $t,
>> if known, perhaps based on the dates of activity of mediums/channelers,
>> or
>> beginning at the date of death of the person.
>>
>> I can't think of any case in which a person's spirit is held to be
>> channeled by another while still alive or before birth, but maybe this
>> could be claimed in cases of reincarnation, astral projection,
>> out-of-body,
>> near-death, trances, hallucinogenic, etc. experiences.
>>
>> In any case, dates of activity of the spirit could overlap or not with
>> the
>> dates of birth of the person, and either way is probably the more useful
>> data.
>>
>> Matthew
>>
>>
>> On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 10:02 AM, Moore, Richard
>> <[log in to unmask]>wrote:
>>
>>> Hello Ben
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> “Do we need a relator term "spirit of" to connect the ARs?”
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Possibly, although the connection should be apparent from the name, and
>>> we might appear to suggest more than we want to.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I think it would be useful to link the name of the spirit to the name
>>> of
>>> the medium who actually wrote the work… “Chaneller” and
>>> “Channelled by”
>>> (with the obligatory transatlantic discussion about spelling).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>> Richard
>>>
>>> _________________________
>>>
>>> Richard Moore
>>>
>>> Authority Control Team Manager
>>>
>>> The British Library
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Tel.: +44 (0)1937 546806
>>>
>>> E-mail: [log in to unmask]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Program for Cooperative Cataloging [mailto:
>>> [log in to unmask]] *On Behalf Of *Benjamin A Abrahamse
>>> *Sent:* 14 May 2014 14:12
>>> *To:* [log in to unmask]
>>> *Subject:* Re: [PCCLIST] Dates for Spirits
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I certainly agree the 046 is nonsensical. Who can say if spirits have
>>> biographical (thanatographical?) data. (Perhaps someone should pour
>>> out
>>> two long glasses brimmed with muscatel on All Soul's Night and ask.)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> So it would be this weird case where you need to include the 100 $d to
>>> make it clear this is the spirit of the John Smith who was born in 1790
>>> and
>>> died in 1856, but no accompanying 046. (This is what the second example
>>> in
>>> 9.19.1.2.5 would suggest.) Do we need a relator term "spirit of" to
>>> connect the ARs?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --Ben
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Benjamin Abrahamse
>>>
>>> Cataloging Coordinator
>>>
>>> Acquisitions and Discovery Enhancement
>>>
>>> MIT Libraries
>>>
>>> 617-253-7137
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Program for Cooperative Cataloging [
>>> mailto:[log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>] *On Behalf
>>> Of *Moore, Richard
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 14, 2014 7:12 AM
>>> *To:* [log in to unmask]
>>> *Subject:* [PCCLIST] Dates for Spirits
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Would people agree that it would be incorrect to record, in 046 of a
>>> NAR
>>> for a spirit, the dates of the deceased person whose spirit is being
>>> described?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> For (hypothetical) example:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 046 $a $f 1790 $g 1856
>>>
>>> 1001 $a Smith, John, $d 1790-1856
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> is correct, because these dates of birth and death are attributes of
>>> the
>>> entity “John Smith”, whose authority record this is. John Smith was
>>> born in
>>> 1790 and died in 1856.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> However:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 046 $a $f 1790 $g 1856
>>>
>>> 1001 $a Smith, John, $d 1790-1856 $c (Spirit)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> is wrong, because these dates and birth are not attributes of the
>>> entity
>>> “John Smith (Spirit)” whose authority record this is. The spirit
>>> did not
>>> have dates of birth and death, and must also (purportedly) still have
>>> existed when the work was channelled. The whole point of the spirit of
>>> a
>>> deceased person (as a bibliographic entity) is that it is still around
>>> after the person has died, to write things through a medium….
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>> Richard
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _________________________
>>>
>>> Richard Moore
>>>
>>> Authority Control Team Manager
>>>
>>> The British Library
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Tel.: +44 (0)1937 546806
>>>
>>> E-mail: [log in to unmask]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ******************************************************************************************************************
>>>
>>> Experience the British Library online at www.bl.uk
>>>
>>> The British Library’s latest Annual Report and Accounts :
>>> www.bl.uk/aboutus/annrep/index.html
>>>
>>> Help the British Library conserve the world's knowledge. Adopt a Book.
>>> www.bl.uk/adoptabook
>>>
>>> The Library's St Pancras site is WiFi - enabled
>>>
>>>
>>> *****************************************************************************************************************
>>>
>>> The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be
>>> legally privileged. It is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you
>>> are
>>> not the intended recipient, please delete this e-mail and notify the
>>> [log in to unmask] : The contents of this e-mail must not be disclosed or
>>> copied without the sender's consent.
>>>
>>> The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the
>>> author and do not necessarily reflect those of the British Library. The
>>> British Library does not take any responsibility for the views of the
>>> author.
>>>
>>> *****************************************************************************************************************
>>>
>>>
>>> Think before you print
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ******************************************************************************************************************
>>> Experience the British Library online at www.bl.uk
>>> The British Library’s latest Annual Report and Accounts :
>>> www.bl.uk/aboutus/annrep/index.html
>>> Help the British Library conserve the world's knowledge. Adopt a Book.
>>> www.bl.uk/adoptabook
>>> The Library's St Pancras site is WiFi - enabled
>>>
>>> *****************************************************************************************************************
>>> The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be
>>> legally privileged. It is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you
>>> are
>>> not the intended recipient, please delete this e-mail and notify the
>>> [log in to unmask] : The contents of this e-mail must not be disclosed or
>>> copied without the sender's consent.
>>> The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the
>>> author and do not necessarily reflect those of the British Library. The
>>> British Library does not take any responsibility for the views of the
>>> author.
>>> *****************************************************************************************************************
>>>
>>> Think before you print
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> --
>> Matthew C. Haugen
>> Rare Book Cataloger
>> 102 Butler Library
>> Columbia University Libraries
>> E-mail: [log in to unmask]
>>
>> Phone: 212-851-2451
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Stephen Hearn, Metadata Strategist
> Technical Services, University Libraries
> University of Minnesota
> 160 Wilson Library
> 309 19th Avenue South
> Minneapolis, MN 55455
> Ph: 612-625-2328
> Fx: 612-625-3428
>

Top of Message | Previous Page | Permalink

Advanced Options


Options

Log In

Log In

Get Password

Get Password


Search Archives

Search Archives


Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Subscribe or Unsubscribe


Archives

October 2020
September 2020
August 2020
July 2020
June 2020
May 2020
April 2020
March 2020
February 2020
January 2020
December 2019
November 2019
October 2019
September 2019
August 2019
July 2019
June 2019
May 2019
April 2019
March 2019
February 2019
January 2019
December 2018
November 2018
October 2018
September 2018
August 2018
July 2018
June 2018
May 2018
April 2018
March 2018
February 2018
January 2018
December 2017
November 2017
October 2017
September 2017
August 2017
July 2017
June 2017
May 2017
April 2017
March 2017
February 2017
January 2017
December 2016
November 2016
October 2016
September 2016
August 2016
July 2016
June 2016
May 2016
April 2016
March 2016
February 2016
January 2016
December 2015
November 2015
October 2015
September 2015
August 2015
July 2015
June 2015
May 2015
April 2015
March 2015
February 2015
January 2015
December 2014
November 2014
October 2014
September 2014
August 2014
July 2014
June 2014
May 2014
April 2014
March 2014
February 2014
January 2014
December 2013
November 2013
October 2013
September 2013
August 2013
July 2013
June 2013
May 2013
April 2013
March 2013
February 2013
January 2013
December 2012
November 2012
October 2012
September 2012
August 2012
July 2012
June 2012
May 2012
April 2012
March 2012
February 2012
January 2012
December 2011
November 2011
October 2011
September 2011
August 2011
July 2011
June 2011
May 2011
April 2011
March 2011
February 2011
January 2011
December 2010
November 2010
October 2010
September 2010
August 2010
July 2010
June 2010
May 2010
April 2010
March 2010
February 2010
January 2010
December 2009
November 2009
October 2009
September 2009
August 2009
July 2009
June 2009
May 2009
April 2009
March 2009
February 2009
January 2009
December 2008
November 2008
October 2008
September 2008
August 2008
July 2008
June 2008
May 2008
April 2008
March 2008
February 2008
January 2008
December 2007
November 2007
October 2007
September 2007
August 2007
July 2007
June 2007
May 2007
April 2007
March 2007
February 2007
January 2007
December 2006
November 2006
October 2006
September 2006
August 2006
July 2006
June 2006
May 2006
April 2006
March 2006
February 2006
January 2006
December 2005
November 2005
October 2005
September 2005
August 2005
July 2005
June 2005
May 2005
April 2005
March 2005
February 2005
January 2005
December 2004
November 2004
October 2004
September 2004
August 2004
July 2004
June 2004
May 2004
April 2004
March 2004
February 2004
January 2004
December 2003
November 2003
October 2003
September 2003
August 2003
July 2003
June 2003
May 2003
April 2003
March 2003
February 2003
January 2003
December 2002
November 2002
October 2002
September 2002
August 2002
July 2002
June 2002
May 2002
April 2002
March 2002
February 2002
January 2002
December 2001
November 2001
October 2001
September 2001
August 2001
July 2001
June 2001
May 2001
April 2001
March 2001
February 2001
January 2001
December 2000
November 2000
October 2000
September 2000
August 2000
July 2000
June 2000
May 2000
April 2000
March 2000
February 2000
January 2000
December 1999
November 1999
October 1999
September 1999
August 1999
July 1999
June 1999
May 1999
April 1999
March 1999
February 1999
January 1999
December 1998
November 1998
October 1998
September 1998
August 1998
July 1998
June 1998
May 1998
April 1998
March 1998
February 1998
January 1998
December 1997
November 1997
October 1997

ATOM RSS1 RSS2



LISTSERV.LOC.GOV

CataList Email List Search Powered by the LISTSERV Email List Manager