At one point in time, our gifts form included a required field for phone
number.  Some gifts came from deceased donors, and I had a hard time
explaining that I did not know their area code, let alone their phone
numbers.  I suppose that e-mails would just go to the ether, so to speak.

By definition spirits would not have an address, even if they did have a
"haunt."  If the spirit is the spirit of a human individual and presumed
to have been connected to a body at some point, then there would be a
birthplace and date of birth.  Otherwise not.  No death date in either
case.  The question of gender and occupation would depend on the religious
tenets involved (which are likely to be somewhat less than orthodox
anything and could be those of the one recording the information or those
attributed to the spirit).  Could one call Beethoven, Ludwig van,
1770-1827 (Spirit), a decomposer?

I must say that I like Richard Moore's suggestion of linking the spirit to
the name of the individual reporting the work of the spirit.  "Channeled,"
may not be appropriate in all cases, however.



Larry
-- 
Laurence S. Creider
Head, Archives and Special Collections Dept.
University Library
New Mexico State University
Las Cruces, NM  88003
Work: 575-646-4756
Fax: 575-646-7477
[log in to unmask]

On Wed, May 14, 2014 10:40 am, Stephen Hearn wrote:
> What attribute information would be appropriate to record when describing
> the spirit of a person? Does a spirit have a birthplace? occupation?
> gender? current address?
>
> Stephen
>
>
> On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 11:25 AM, Matthew C. Haugen <
> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>> I suppose it depends on your theological disposition whether dates of
>> biological birth and death correspond with dates of incarnation and
>> disembodiment of the spirit. Leaving that aside, we could also or
>> instead
>> record the spirit's presumably later dates of activity in 046 $s and/or
>> $t,
>> if known, perhaps based on the dates of activity of mediums/channelers,
>> or
>> beginning at the date of death of the person.
>>
>> I can't think of any case in which a person's spirit is held to be
>> channeled by another while still alive or before birth, but maybe this
>> could be claimed in cases of reincarnation, astral projection,
>> out-of-body,
>> near-death, trances, hallucinogenic, etc. experiences.
>>
>> In any case, dates of activity of the spirit could overlap or not with
>> the
>> dates of birth of the person, and either way is probably the more useful
>> data.
>>
>> Matthew
>>
>>
>> On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 10:02 AM, Moore, Richard
>> <[log in to unmask]>wrote:
>>
>>>  Hello Ben
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> “Do we need a relator term "spirit of" to connect the ARs?”
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Possibly, although the connection should be apparent from the name, and
>>> we might appear to suggest more than we want to.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I think it would be useful to link the name of the spirit to the name
>>> of
>>> the medium who actually wrote the work…  “Chaneller” and
>>> “Channelled by”
>>> (with the obligatory transatlantic discussion about spelling).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>> Richard
>>>
>>> _________________________
>>>
>>> Richard Moore
>>>
>>> Authority Control Team Manager
>>>
>>> The British Library
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Tel.: +44 (0)1937 546806
>>>
>>> E-mail: [log in to unmask]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Program for Cooperative Cataloging [mailto:
>>> [log in to unmask]] *On Behalf Of *Benjamin A Abrahamse
>>> *Sent:* 14 May 2014 14:12
>>> *To:* [log in to unmask]
>>> *Subject:* Re: [PCCLIST] Dates for Spirits
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I certainly agree the 046 is nonsensical.  Who can say if spirits have
>>> biographical (thanatographical?) data.  (Perhaps someone should pour
>>> out
>>> two long glasses brimmed with muscatel on All Soul's Night and ask.)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> So it would be this weird case where you need to include the 100 $d to
>>> make it clear this is the spirit of the John Smith who was born in 1790
>>> and
>>> died in 1856, but no accompanying 046. (This is what the second example
>>> in
>>> 9.19.1.2.5 would suggest.)  Do we need a relator term "spirit of" to
>>> connect the ARs?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --Ben
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Benjamin Abrahamse
>>>
>>> Cataloging Coordinator
>>>
>>> Acquisitions and Discovery Enhancement
>>>
>>> MIT Libraries
>>>
>>> 617-253-7137
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Program for Cooperative Cataloging [
>>> mailto:[log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>] *On Behalf
>>> Of *Moore, Richard
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 14, 2014 7:12 AM
>>> *To:* [log in to unmask]
>>> *Subject:* [PCCLIST] Dates for Spirits
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Would people agree that it would be incorrect to record, in 046 of a
>>> NAR
>>> for a spirit, the dates of the deceased person whose spirit is being
>>> described?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> For (hypothetical) example:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 046 $a $f 1790 $g 1856
>>>
>>> 1001 $a Smith, John, $d 1790-1856
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> is correct, because these dates of birth and death are attributes of
>>> the
>>> entity “John Smith”, whose authority record this is. John Smith was
>>> born in
>>> 1790 and died in 1856.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> However:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 046 $a $f 1790 $g 1856
>>>
>>> 1001 $a Smith, John, $d 1790-1856 $c (Spirit)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> is wrong, because these dates and birth are not attributes of the
>>> entity
>>> “John Smith (Spirit)” whose authority record this is. The spirit
>>> did not
>>> have dates of birth and death, and must also (purportedly) still have
>>> existed when the work was channelled. The whole point of the spirit of
>>> a
>>> deceased person (as a bibliographic entity) is that it is still around
>>> after the person has died, to write things through a medium….
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>> Richard
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _________________________
>>>
>>> Richard Moore
>>>
>>> Authority Control Team Manager
>>>
>>> The British Library
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Tel.: +44 (0)1937 546806
>>>
>>> E-mail: [log in to unmask]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> --
>> Matthew C. Haugen
>> Rare Book Cataloger
>> 102 Butler Library
>> Columbia University Libraries
>> E-mail: [log in to unmask]
>>
>> Phone: 212-851-2451
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Stephen Hearn, Metadata Strategist
> Technical Services, University Libraries
> University of Minnesota
> 160 Wilson Library
> 309 19th Avenue South
> Minneapolis, MN 55455
> Ph: 612-625-2328
> Fx: 612-625-3428
>