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ARSCLIST  June 2014

ARSCLIST June 2014

Subject:

Re: Odd warble

From:

Ellis Burman <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Tue, 3 Jun 2014 12:04:37 -0700

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (137 lines)

I'm unaware of any digital restoration tools in 1984.  Those came a little
later, around 1987 (Sonic Solutions and Cedar).

That said, these sound like interpolation artifacts.  Maybe there was some
crude form of interpolation back then, or even just using editing to fix a
loud thump.  It is made MUCH worse IMHO because, even though the audio is
mono, they used a stereo cartridge and interpolated each channel
separately, instead of combining the channels and working from a mono
source file.  The ear is VERY sensitive to minor phase differences between
channels.  If the work was done on a mono file instead, the interpolations
would be much more palatable, as they would not be constantly distracting
your ear away from the center mono image.

It doesn't sound like any (broadband) noise reduction was applied, but I
guess "impulse noise reduction processing" would be an appropriate term.

(the other) Ellis (from Los Angles)


On Tue, Jun 3, 2014 at 5:04 AM, Randy A. Riddle <[log in to unmask]>
wrote:

> Tom --
>
> Is the "warble" directly because of "nip and tuck" or do you think it's
> exacerbated by the use of digital tools?
>
> Were these digital tools commonly available around '84?
>
> I'm thinking the best description in the discography I could use might be
> "artifacts from noise reduction processing".  Some releases are worse than
> others - this is one of the more annoying examples.
>
> Randy
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 3, 2014 at 7:33 AM, Tom Fine <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
>
> > It sounds like a combination of two bad practices -- overuse of digital
> > "tools" which cause artifacts, and also bad nip and tuck splicing to
> remove
> > bad ticks. I doubt that's a direct transfer to master of the disk. I bet
> > the disk was dubbed to tape at some pre-digital time, the old nip and
> tuck
> > method was employed, and then when it was time to remaster for CD,
> someone
> > decided to over-use the newest "tools." The company that bought Goldin's
> > retail operation, Radio Spirits, is notorious for terrible digital
> > processing. The only people I know who consistently make good audio from
> > OTR transcriptions are Art Shifrin in Queens and a guy last name Ellis
> who
> > sells MP3 and WAV downloads out of Virginia.
> >
> > Speaking of Vic Damone, here's a dub of scatchy Mercury 78 promoting
> > Damone's first 78 album:
> > https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/55748706/Mercury_Promo%
> > 20-%20Virgil_Trucks.mp3
> > some context: Jackie Smith was Mercury's pop promotions person out of
> > Chicago. She ended up being a pioneering businesswoman in the midwest.
> > Virgil "Fireball" Trucks pitched for the Detroit Tigers and later for the
> > Washington Senators. He and Smith must have worked together during WWII.
> > "Merc" was a smiley-faced cartoon "trademark" for the label, briefly
> > replacing the stern-faced Mercury romanesque messenger head. It's clear
> > that a record company wanting to take itself seriously would do away with
> > "Merc" in its promotions, as Irving Green & Co quickly did. The other
> side
> > of the 78 is a Vic Damone side from that album. I'm not sure if the
> record
> > was meant to be played in stores or on-air. I didn't use anything to
> clean
> > up the sound, so it's noisy. If someone wants to play with digi-tools on
> > it, ping me offlist and I'll send you WAV.
> >
> > -- Tom Fine
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Randy A. Riddle" <
> > [log in to unmask]>
> > To: <[log in to unmask]>
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2014 6:26 AM
> > Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Odd warble
> >
> >
> >
> >  Here's a sample that includes some "warbles".  It's a 14 mb .wav file
> that
> >> was ripped directly from the cd "Pop Singers on the Air!".
> >>
> >> The cd was issued in 1984, so this would have been some kind of
> technology
> >> available during that time.  My guess is that it was some kind of
> hardware
> >> box that did click removal that was adjustable - in the sample, you hear
> >> the "warble" in addition to some broader surface noise on the original
> >> transcription.  Again, you can hear the same "warbles" on both the lp
> and
> >> cd versions of some of the Radiola releases, so it's in the master tape
> >> and
> >> not an artifact of the media.
> >>
> >> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/54210054/warble-sample-radiola.wav
> >>
> >> Randy
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Tue, Jun 3, 2014 at 12:52 AM, Paul Stamler <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
> >>
> >>  On 6/2/2014 8:03 PM, Ellis Burman wrote:
> >>>
> >>>  Hi Randy.  Can you make short mp3 of just that section?  Maybe 10
> >>>> seconds
> >>>> or so?  Then you could use a higher bit rate, and hopefully preserve
> it
> >>>> better.  If you make the section short enough, you can even send it as
> >>>> an
> >>>> uncompressed WAV.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> Or a .flac file.
> >>>
> >>> Peace,
> >>> Paul
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
>



-- 
Ellis
[log in to unmask]
818-846-5525

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