Hi Richard:

You should make an appointment to visit Gerald Fabris at the Edison Site and discuss this in detail. 
Bring your engineer along.

There is also a guy in the Midwest who does Edison recording demos. He visits the Pavek Museum of 
Broadcasting in St. Paul. Contact Steve Raymer there for details and the guy's name.

Edison and staff never stopped experimenting with acoustic recording. Screaming into a small horn 
and recording on foil or soft wax will produce only the most primative low-fidelity results. Their 
methods got much more elaborate and heavy-duty (ie big horns) to get better fidelity. I've never 
heard any Edison recordings that I would say approach "high" fidelity, but some of the Blue Amberols 
that I've heard sound somewhat like what I imagine the source sounds might sound like in a room (ie 
the "tone" is somewhat accurate), and there's much less background noise than more primative 
recordings from earlier days.

The only acoustical recordings I've heard that have pretty good fidelity are late-era EMI. There are 
some Noel Coward recordings that sound more realistic than electrical recordings did, by and large, 
until the 1940s. I've never heard similar fidelity in any Victor or Columbia USA recordings from the 
pre-electric days, but that doesn't mean they don't exist.

The bottom line of what I'm saying is that it's no easy feat to make a good-sounding cylinder 
recording. Luckily, you can talk to a guy like Gerald Fabris and thus avoid having to repeat they 
years of experimentation that Edison and his engineers did (because they kept notebooks).

-- Tom Fine

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Richard Grimes" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2014 8:46 PM
Subject: [ARSCLIST] Edison recording techniques?


> lot's to consider here.  thank you all for your support and insight.   i will keep you posted on 
> my progress.
>
> one more somewhat related question: where can i study good techniques  for recording onto an 
> Edison way cylinder?  i have seen people do i  well on outlets like youtube, but when I do it, it 
> comes out very  poorly, very distorted and/or soft.  I have been working on this with  a 
> professional engineer, and we have had no luck.  Is there a source  that discusses techniques for 
> getting the best recording possible on  these machines?
>
> I appreciate the consideration,
> Richard
> On Sep 3, 2014, at 8:34 PM, Aaron Levinson wrote:
>
>> I agree. Could be very memorable in performance and I think the  vinyl cactus rubber mat idea is 
>> a very good premise.
>>
>> AA
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Sep 3, 2014, at 7:53 PM, Tom Fine <[log in to unmask]>  wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Richard:
>>>
>>> Tim's the man! He sold me a beautifully restored Edison player,  which has a prominent place in 
>>> my living room. Next time I get  some pennies from heaven, he'll sell me a wood-horn Victor 
>>> player.
>>>
>>> See what Tim says about this issue. Maybe he's got some way to  play VINYL 78's. You could get a 
>>> 78 cut, for instance by Charles  Bork, from your tape or digital file. Then get one of the 
>>> small- run presses to make you 100 or so copies. Then, you'll long have  extras for when they 
>>> wear out. Tim might have a solution (maybe a  cactus needle?) to play vinyl. I think 200-gram 
>>> vinyl would be  thick enough not to slip, but you could also craft a rubber  platter mat to deal 
>>> with that issue.
>>>
>>> Thinking about how this could come across in performance, I don't  consider it even 
>>> semi-ridiculous anymore. I think it's kewl. More  power to you and your band.
>>>
>>> -- Tom Fine
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Grimes"  <[log in to unmask]>
>>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2014 5:04 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] shellac 78 problem
>>>
>>>
>>>> Thanks Tom; This is all very helpful.  There's a fellow out of   Minneapolis, Kim Gutzke of 
>>>> Custom Records, who talked of trying  to do  the shellac, but years have gone by and nothing 
>>>> has come  to pass, so  i've lost hope in that possibility.  When we first  began this effort 
>>>> to work with the Victor, it was under the  assumption that this  possibility would eventually 
>>>> work out.  now  we are stuck with the  very likely prospect of faking it, which I  always hate. 
>>>> It's hard to  believe that nobody out there does  this.  I guess there's just no a  void to be 
>>>> filled anymore?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks again for your input.
>>>> Richard
>>>>
>>>> p.s. Tim sold us our Victor IV, as well as an Edison wax  cylinder  player/recorder.  He has 
>>>> been very helpful with so many  things.
>>>>> On Sep 3, 2014, at 4:21 PM, Tom Fine wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Richard:
>>>>>
>>>>> This query comes across as semi-ridiculous, but you can fudge   things. No, you can't get 
>>>>> shellac disks pressed today and no,  you  can't play laquer disks, either wide-groove or not, 
>>>>> on a  Victor IV.  But, you could easily rig up a system onstage where  an iPod plays  into a 
>>>>> little speaker hidden in the throat of the  horn. Buy some  terrible junk 78 record (because 
>>>>> it will be  destroyed). Get someone  like Tim Fabrizio to send you a junker  Victor diaphram, 
>>>>> disconnected from the needle. This will then  put no sound into the  horn to interfere with 
>>>>> the speaker sound.  Drop the needle on the  record and at the same time hit play on  the iPod 
>>>>> and the audience  will be none the wiser.
>>>>>
>>>>> In case, for your recording, you want a real 78RPM wide-groove   record, there's a guy named 
>>>>> Charles Bork out in Seattle who can  cut  it for you. This can then be plated and pressed as a 
>>>>> 10"  vinyl  record, playable with a 78 stylus but not playable on an  old Victor  turntable 
>>>>> (it will be chewn to bits on its first play).
>>>>>
>>>>> -- Tom Fine
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Grimes"   <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2014 3:57 PM
>>>>> Subject: [ARSCLIST] shellac 78 problem
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Greetings ARSC!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am new to the list, so I hope I am corresponding with you  all  in  the proper manner with 
>>>>>> this email.  If not, just let  me know  and I  will redress accordingly.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am the Artistic Director of an eclectic contemporary group   called  cordis - and I am in a 
>>>>>> pickle - hoping you or one of  your  members  might be able to assist, or at least point me 
>>>>>> in  a direction.  I very  recently aquired a Victor IV talking  machine,  with the foolish 
>>>>>> assumed there would some boutique  sources out  there that would be  able to press shellac 
>>>>>> discs.   My research has  indicated otherwise,  and I am now in a bit of  a panic as the 
>>>>>> ensemble is knee deep in the recording of a new  album that is  dependent upon the use of our 
>>>>>> trusty
>>>>>> Victor.  We can always fake it in the studio, but live, we cannot.
>>>>>> Do you know of any sources who might be able to assist us here?  i  am  a neophyte when it 
>>>>>> comes to understanding this early   technology, so  please forgive me if my query comes 
>>>>>> across as  ridiculous. any  direction you might be able to offer is  greatly  appreciated.
>>>>
>
>