LISTSERV mailing list manager LISTSERV 16.0

Help for ARSCLIST Archives


ARSCLIST Archives

ARSCLIST Archives


ARSCLIST@LISTSERV.LOC.GOV


View:

Message:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Topic:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Author:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

Font:

Proportional Font

LISTSERV Archives

LISTSERV Archives

ARSCLIST Home

ARSCLIST Home

ARSCLIST  September 2014

ARSCLIST September 2014

Subject:

Re: Duke Ellington accidental stereo comparison

From:

Tom Fine <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Fri, 5 Sep 2014 22:08:18 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (87 lines)

Hi Mike:

The Lomax and Asch comparison is very interesting. I always had the impression that Lomax was 
collecting sound first and music second, whereas Asch was running a commercial music label. If that 
assumption is true, then Asch would want a result that sounds like a professional music recording, 
with a sonic reference buyers would be accustomed to, even if the music itself or the artist was new 
to their ears. Lomax, on the other hand, started out working for the government (with no need to be 
concerned with a commerical product aesthetics) and his recordings indicate a really interesting 
fascination with the background sounds as well as the primary performances. Take the Son House 
recording in Klack's Store. A train runs right through town, loudly passing the store even rattling 
the recorder. Does Lomax stop and try a re-take? No. In fact he didn't even ask for a second 
performance of that song. I have to assume he thought the train passing was a part of what he was 
capturing, not just Son House but also Klack's store and the rural Mississippi of that time. The 
same is true of his recordings of the fife and drum band and also the prisoner singing. He made 
recordings where we hear not just the musical performances but also the environmental audio around 
the performers. In those cases, it's fascinating.

Emory Cook's approach seemed more Lomax than Asch. In fact, plenty of his commercially-released 
products were ONLY environmental audio (trains, weather, a strip club, etc).

Regarding your comments in another posting about early stereo, I have plenty of demo tapes and 
records from the early and mid 50s. Every which way of stereophony was recorded and commercially 
released. I don't think the industry settled into anything approaching accepted norms until the 70s. 
Then, the accepted norms for rock and pop and even a lot of jazz was near-mono (most information 
placed loudly in the center with some stuff mixed to the sides mainly so FM radio didn't sound just 
like AM radio). I've always thought it ironic that recording techniques moved to where a "mix" of 
tracks not recorded at the same time or even in the same place was then built into an artificial 
(illusionary) sound-field, yet many producers and engineers chose to just build a bigger and muddier 
mono mix.

-- Tom Fine

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Michael Biel" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Friday, September 05, 2014 9:01 PM
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Duke Ellington accidental stereo comparison


> From: Tom Fine <[log in to unmask]>
> Date: Fri, September 05, 2014 8:05 pm
>
>> [to George B-N] I disagree somewhat with your statement that
>> accidental stereo "has no relevance. . . .
>> On the Duke Ellington recordings, I hear more clearly how dry
>> the studio was (heavily draped, almost claustrophobic), but
>> also I hear more clearly individual brass and woodwind parts.
>> In mono, Duke's arrangements are somewhat dense and his guys
>> played in almost perfect lock-step, so it's harder to pick out
>> individual parts. For instance, in the second medley, the snippet
>> from "Black and Tan Fantasy" appears to have two muted trumpets,
>> playing exactly the same thing, sitting on each end of the section,
>> with the players in the middle playing different parts. I can't hear
>> that, or the separation of the saxes, in mono.  -- Tom Fine
>
> I was just going over our video of Vince Giordano's ARSC NYC talk where
> he discusses the problems of trying to recreate an arrangement from
> recordings.  I know he would welcome this type of perspective in the
> recordings he has to use.  The only analogous aid are films of the band
> performing where you can see who plays what. I was literally
> front-row-center for Vince's Town Hall Whiteman concert on Feb 12, and
> there was one piece where four reeds sitting side by side were trading
> off measure-by-measure.  It was amazing -- in mono it would have sounded
> like one player.  (I had my Zoom recorder in my tote bag -- I wish I
> would have had the guts -- and permission -- to have recorded that in
> stereo.)
>
> This use of multi-channel recording -- stereo or not -- was something
> that Alan Lomax embraced in his field recording when portable stereo
> tape recorders became available.  On the other hand, Moe Asch HATED
> stereo, and preferred his folk recordings to be a dense mono mix of
> instruments and voices all coming from one point.  I don't think Lomax
> minded if the soundstage was a beautiful curtain of sound -- he was
> pinpointing individual instruments or voices for transcription and
> analysis.
>
> Mike Biel  [log in to unmask]
>
> Section omitted from George's above quote:
>>> By relevance I mean something that will teach us something
>>> about the soundscape at the time, or recording practices
>>> or -- by giving greater transparency -- a deeper insight
>>> into the performance that was manifestly going on while
>>> recordings took place.
>
> 

Top of Message | Previous Page | Permalink

Advanced Options


Options

Log In

Log In

Get Password

Get Password


Search Archives

Search Archives


Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Subscribe or Unsubscribe


Archives

November 2019
October 2019
September 2019
August 2019
July 2019
June 2019
May 2019
April 2019
March 2019
February 2019
January 2019
December 2018
November 2018
October 2018
September 2018
August 2018
July 2018
June 2018
May 2018
April 2018
March 2018
February 2018
January 2018
December 2017
November 2017
October 2017
September 2017
August 2017
July 2017
June 2017
May 2017
April 2017
March 2017
February 2017
January 2017
December 2016
November 2016
October 2016
September 2016
August 2016
July 2016
June 2016
May 2016
April 2016
March 2016
February 2016
January 2016
December 2015
November 2015
October 2015
September 2015
August 2015
July 2015
June 2015
May 2015
April 2015
March 2015
February 2015
January 2015
December 2014
November 2014
October 2014
September 2014
August 2014
July 2014
June 2014
May 2014
April 2014
March 2014
February 2014
January 2014
December 2013
November 2013
October 2013
September 2013
August 2013
July 2013
June 2013
May 2013
April 2013
March 2013
February 2013
January 2013
December 2012
November 2012
October 2012
September 2012
August 2012
July 2012
June 2012
May 2012
April 2012
March 2012
February 2012
January 2012
December 2011
November 2011
October 2011
September 2011
August 2011
July 2011
June 2011
May 2011
April 2011
March 2011
February 2011
January 2011
December 2010
November 2010
October 2010
September 2010
August 2010
July 2010
June 2010
May 2010
April 2010
March 2010
February 2010
January 2010
December 2009
November 2009
October 2009
September 2009
August 2009
July 2009
June 2009
May 2009
April 2009
March 2009
February 2009
January 2009
December 2008
November 2008
October 2008
September 2008
August 2008
July 2008
June 2008
May 2008
April 2008
March 2008
February 2008
January 2008
December 2007
November 2007
October 2007
September 2007
August 2007
July 2007
June 2007
May 2007
April 2007
March 2007
February 2007
January 2007
December 2006
November 2006
October 2006
September 2006
August 2006
July 2006
June 2006
May 2006
April 2006
March 2006
February 2006
January 2006
December 2005
November 2005
October 2005
September 2005
August 2005
July 2005
June 2005
May 2005
April 2005
March 2005
February 2005
January 2005
December 2004
November 2004
October 2004
September 2004
August 2004
July 2004
June 2004
May 2004
April 2004
March 2004
February 2004
January 2004
December 2003
November 2003
October 2003
September 2003
August 2003
July 2003
June 2003
May 2003
April 2003
March 2003
February 2003
January 2003

ATOM RSS1 RSS2



LISTSERV.LOC.GOV

CataList Email List Search Powered by the LISTSERV Email List Manager