There were Soundmirrors in the UK in 1950/51, and I think Benedetti was
recording Charlie Parker around this time on a Soundmirror. The first
deliveries of Scotch tape were 1948/9, I believe, so it seems just about
possible.
Likely? Don't really know...nobody was more surprised than I to find a
domestic FM off-air recording of a Goon Show from early 1954, as the BBC
VHF service didn't officially start until 1955, so odd events can slip
through the cracks, particularly if there was a knowledgable enthusiast
involved.
On 07/10/2014 10:32, John Haley wrote:
> Joining this string late here, but it relates to an issue I have at
> present.
>
> I have a tape recording of a NYC concert broadcast in late November, 1948.
> It doesn't look like a professional recording, being on a 7" reel in an old
> red and green plaid Scotch box made of thinner cardboard, all one piece,
> clearly very old. The reel itself is plastic from a later era, not the
> original one. The tape box has no printed number, just saying "Scotch
> Sound Recording Tape for High Fidelity Recording" but "NO 100" is stamped
> on there, on the front cover of the box. The tape length is 1200 ft. The
> tape itself looks like acetate (I have other early R2R tapes that are
> paper-backed, but not this one). I have assumed that it must be a copy
> made later from original instantaneous transcription discs of the concert,
> based on my belief that there were no home tape recorders around in 1948 in
> the US, which seems to be confirmed by this string.
>
> The thing is, it really doesn't sound like a disc source, and a disc source
> is not that hard to hear, especially for transcription discs. It also
> sounds more like a good line source than taped-off-the-air from 1948,
> although I can't be sure about that (it has legitimate high frequencies
> present up to something like 12-13,000 Hz). FM radio of course existed in
> 1948, although I believe that the number of such stations were not so
> plentiful as they were later. There is no doubt about the date of the
> concert.
>
> Is an original recording on tape possible? If possible, likely?
>
> Thanks,
> John Haley
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 7, 2014 at 1:44 AM, Michael Biel <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>> The use of magnetic tape for one album in late 1948 does not do anything
>> to salvage the Wallerstein story that Dennis Rooney has completely
>> eviscerated. I will go a step further and say that it is likely that
>> only the inserts were on tape on I Can Hear It Now, and that they were
>> played as Murrow narrated onto lacquer. For all we know the inserts
>> themselves were being played from lacquer, dubbed from the edited tapes.
>>
>>
>> Tape would have been entirely unnecessary for the miracle of 4:30 timing
>> of each of the ten segments because Murrow and Friendly were
>> accomplished broadcasters. EXACT timing of live broadcasts was in their
>> blood. Remember, Murrow spent many years doing programs like The World
>> News Round-Up where 5 or 6 different European cities provided reports
>> cued only by pre-arranged clock times because they usually couldn't hear
>> the other cities or even the moderator for cues. If you gave Murrow a
>> script and a clock and told him to read it five times in five different
>> time lengths he could have done them perfectly.
>>
>> Tom and others kept on bringing up Ampex as if they were the only game
>> in town. They had plenty of competition. While Mullen had Crosby's
>> program in Hollywood sewed up for Ampex, in Chicago ABC had their
>> national tape center with ten Stancil-Hoffman recorders providing
>> daylight saving time program delays for the whole country. During the
>> 1948 and 49 seasons they provided 7,100 hours of playback with a total
>> of only 3 minutes of outage due to tape breaks in 1948. The first time a
>> Crosby program was aired directly from a tape was only when this system
>> was put into service. Magnicorders provided a similar service for
>> Mutual. NBC used discs.
>>
>> Mike Biel [log in to unmask]
>>
>> -------- Original Message --------
>> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Ethics, was: Article on Charlie and Orchestra
>> and WWII Jazz propaganda records
>> From: "Barton, Matthew" <[log in to unmask]>
>> Date: Mon, October 06, 2014 9:38 am
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>
>> Magnetic tape played a vital role in at least one Columbia LP release
>> of 1948: "I Can Hear It Now," issued in November. Ultimately, it may
>> have been mastered from lacquers, but magnetic tape was used for the
>> editing process, and this is mentioned in reviews published at the time.
>> I think there's also a New Yorker article from early 1949 where Fred
>> Friendly talks about it. Each chapter of the album times out to within a
>> few second of 4:30, so that they could each fit on one side of a 5 disc
>> 12" 78 rpm set that Columbia issued simultaneously with the LP. Tape
>> must have been an enormous boon in accomplishing those timings.
>>
>>
>> Matthew Barton
>> Library of Congress
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List
>> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of David Lewis
>> Sent: Saturday, October 04, 2014 1:13 PM
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Ethics, was: Article on Charlie and Orchestra
>> and WWII Jazz propaganda records
>>
>> I would like to suggest Tempo Records in LA as a possible candidate for
>> early mastering from tape; the sound of some of their recordings from
>> 1948-9 suggests that tape was in the chain. Problem is we just don't
>> know that much about them -- they tried to beat Columbia to the
>> introduction of the LP, but there isn't much else to go on.
>>
>> UD
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 4, 2014 at 12:57 PM, Dennis Rooney
>> <[log in to unmask]>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > Edward Wallerstein's claim the Columbia was the first U.S. record
>> > company to master on tape is questionable to say the least. There may
>> > have been experimental tape masters by 1948 but no released product
>> > resulted from them, based on my experience researching the
>> Masterworks
>> > Division archives at Sony Music. Howard Scott directed the production
>> > of the initial release of Lps launched in 1948 and everything
>> released
>> > though 1949 originated from lacquer masters that were slip-cued to
>> > lacquer sub-masters for Lp production. Lacquer mastering was still
>> the
>> > norm when recording resumed in late 1948 after the second Petrillo
>> > Ban. Beecham's Columbia Symphony sessions in 1949 were mastered on
>> > tape with lacquer backups, and it was that year that marked the
>> > decisive transition to tape masters. Therefore, Wallerstein's quoted
>> > claim: "By mid-1947, we...had discontinued direct disc cutting" is
>> > incorrect, as is another quoted claim: "Of the originally issued LPs
>> > about 40% were from tape." That percentage would not have been
>> > accurate until at least mid-1950.
>> >
>> > DDR
>> >
>> > On Sat, Oct 4, 2014 at 11:10 AM, George Brock-Nannestad
>> > <[log in to unmask]>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > > From: Patent Tactics, George Brock-Nannestad
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Hi Tom,
>> > >
>> > > "Columbia also had an advantage in that we were the first people in
>> > > the U.S.
>> > > to use tape for master recording. Murphy was one of the first to
>> see
>> > > a German Magnetophon tape recorder in newly liberated Luxemburg
>> > > after the war. He quickly packed it up and shipped it back to CBS.
>> > > Not long thereafter both EMI and Ampex came out with machines, and
>> > > we immediately placed an order for both. By mid-1947, we were using
>> > > them and had discontinued direct disc cutting. The Ampex proved to
>> > > be the better machine, so we sent the EMI machines back. Of the
>> > > originally issued LPs about 40% were from tape originals." (Edward
>> > > Wallerstein)
>> > >
>> > > (http://www.musicinthemail.com/audiohistoryLP.html, which to me is
>> > > as good as virtually no attribution)
>> > >
>> > > As to the first to market tape recorders in Europe (apart from
>> > Telefunken)
>> > > after WW2 I would think that virtually all questions you might want
>> > > to
>> > ask
>> > > about early tape recording is found in the essential book
>> > > (information taken from German Amazon):
>> > >
>> > > Zeitschichten: Magnetbandtechnik als Kulturträger -
>> > > Erfinder-Biographien und Erfindungen - Chronologie der
>> > > Magnetbandtechnik und ihr Einsatz in der Hörfunk-, Musik-, Film-
>> und
>> > > Videoproduktion.
>> > >
>> > > Joachim Polzer (Herausgeber),
>> > > Friedrich Engel
>> > > Gerhard Kuper
>> > > Frank Bell
>> > >
>> > > I have the book in its second edition, which has also sold out. It
>> > > is, however, available as an e-book from the publisher Polzer at a
>> > > very reasonable price. My book is visible from below, but not
>> > > accessible just now.
>> > >
>> > > It is in German, which is not read by as many technicians in the US
>> > > as there would have been in the late 1930s. At some stage
>> > > GoogleTranslate will be
>> > so
>> > > good that it will be accessible to everyone.
>> > >
>> > > The EMI group issued their first LP records in 1952 but had
>> > > obviously
>> > used
>> > > tape before then.
>> > >
>> > > Best wishes,
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > George
>> > >
>> > > Alas, very far from ethics by now!
>> > > ------------------------------------------------------------
>> > > From: Tom Fine <[log in to unmask]>
>> > > To: [log in to unmask]
>> > > Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Ethics, was: Article on Charlie and
>> > > Orchestra and
>> > > WWII Jazz propaganda records
>> > > Date sent: Sat, 4 Oct 2014 10:31:40 -0400
>> > >
>> > > > Hi George:
>> > > >
>> > > > What I said was, "What's relevant from Mullin is that he was a
>> > > > main
>> > > force in
>> > > > spreading and
>> > > > commercializing high fidelity magnetic recording in the massive
>> U.S.
>> > > > market." Note U.S. MARKET. I
>> > > > agree that EMI, and others, stepped right into the European
>> > > > market. In
>> > > the
>> > > > U.S., Ampex dominated the
>> > > > early years of PROFESSIONAL magnetic tape recorders. As I said,
>> > > > Brush SoundMirror (Armour) was first, but the sound quality and
>> > > > capabilities were primative compared
>> > to
>> > > an
>> > > > Ampex 200, and the Brush
>> > > > machine was not adopted by the top tier of broadcasters and
>> record
>> > > > companies. As I understand it, Col. Ranger was also peddling an
>> > > > adaption of Magnetophons that he
>> > brought
>> > > > back from Germany, and he
>> > > > eventually gained a foothold in the market for
>> > > tape-sync'd-to-movie-camera
>> > > > recorders, but he was not
>> > > > a force supplying tape machines to broadcaster (the really big
>> > > > market)
>> > > and
>> > > > music recording
>> > > > operations (an important market, but not lucrative like the
>> > > broadcasters).
>> > > > Fairchild got in early,
>> > > > too (circa 1948), but their machines were not widely adopted, I
>> > > > assume
>> > > due
>> > > > to limited marketing and
>> > > > limited manufacturing capability. That said, Fairchild Pic-Sync
>> > > > was
>> > > somewhat
>> > > > broadly adopted in NYC
>> > > > sound-for-film operations, to the point that at least one
>> > post-production
>> > > > place in Manhattan still
>> > > > has an operating machine and can still "demodulate" (playback and
>> > > > speed-sync) a Pic-Sync tape.
>> > > >
>> > > > Question for you -- was the EMI the first non-German company in
>> > > > Europe
>> > to
>> > > > make a magnetic tape
>> > > > recorder? What year did they debut their first machine? Did
>> > > > Philips
>> > also
>> > > get
>> > > > in early? I am under
>> > > > the impression that European record companies outside of Germany
>> > > > were
>> > > later
>> > > > switching from disk
>> > > > recording than U.S. companies, although Philips had used the
>> > > Philips-Miller
>> > > > mechanical-optical
>> > > > system as far back as the 1930s.
>> > > >
>> > > > -- Tom Fine
>> > > >
>> > > > ----- Original Message -----
>> > > > From: "George Brock-Nannestad" <[log in to unmask]>
>> > > > To: <[log in to unmask]>
>> > > > Sent: Saturday, October 04, 2014 10:01 AM
>> > > > Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Ethics, was: Article on Charlie and
>> > > > Orchestra
>> > and
>> > > > WWII Jazz propaganda
>> > > > records
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > > From: Patent Tactics, George Brock-Nannestad
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Hi reader,
>> > > > >
>> > > > > I could elaborate on the "Philips man's article", but it is not
>> > > > > a
>> > chip
>> > > on
>> > > > my
>> > > > > shoulder, so it would take an inordinate amount of digging to
>> > > > > find
>> > this
>> > > > old
>> > > > > correspondence.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > At the end Mullin wrote in response to my letter:
>> > > > >
>> > > > > "Perhaps I can be taken to task for a sentence in my paper
>> > > > > which,
>> > > indeed,
>> > > > may
>> > > > > have prompted Mr. Brock-Nannestad's letter to the editor: "By
>> > > > > this
>> > time
>> > > > > Germany was at war, so the outside world heard nothing of the
>> > > > > story
>> > of
>> > > > the
>> > > > > high-performance Mgnetophon" For this I heartily apologize and
>> > > > > thank
>> > > Mr.
>> > > > > Brock-Nannestad for his concern in clarifying this matter of
>> > > > > historic interest".
>> > > > >
>> > > > > It was the peddling of a myth that I opposed, not the personal
>> > > memories of
>> > > > a
>> > > > > person who was involved. I have the tape (now DVD) of an
>> > > > > afternoon
>> > with
>> > > > Jack
>> > > > > Mullin, and it is most enjoyable.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > I highly recommend signing up for the AES E-library; it is for
>> > > > > all
>> > > > intents
>> > > > > and purposes an inexhaustible source of information. Perhaps
>> for
>> > > > > non-subscribers it is a bit unfair that both Mullin's paper in
>> > > > > the
>> > > > "golden
>> > > > > issue" of JAES 1977 and my brief letter with response cost the
>> > > > > same
>> > in
>> > > > the
>> > > > > AES E-library: $5 for plain AES members and $20 for
>> non-members.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > As to the importance of Mullin in establishing the tape
>> recorder
>> > > > > in
>> > the
>> > > > US;
>> > > > > first of all we talk about the professional tape recorder, and
>> > > > > here
>> > it
>> > > > seems
>> > > > > he had competition from EMI, cf. Ed. Wallerstein's memoirs,
>> > > > > which are available on the web, but for which I can find no
>> proper source.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Best wishes,
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > George
>> > > > >
>> > > > > ---------------------------------------------------
>> > > > >
>> > > > > From: Tom Fine <[log in to unmask]>
>> > > > > To: [log in to unmask]
>> > > > > Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Ethics, was: Article on Charlie and
>> > > > > Orchestra
>> > > > and
>> > > > > WWII Jazz propaganda records
>> > > > > Date sent: Sat, 4 Oct 2014 07:17:29 -0400
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >> Hi George:
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >> Could you elaborate on the "Philips man's" article and what
>> you
>> > claim
>> > > > was
>> > > > >> incorrect in it? Can you
>> > > > >> document/prove your claims? Thanks.
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >> For what it's worth, I don't see how anyone can "prove" that
>> > > > >> Jack
>> > > > Mullin
>> > > > >> DIDN'T hear tape-delayed
>> > > > >> German broadcasts in England and DIDN'T wonder about a live
>> > orchestra
>> > > > >> concert in the middle of the
>> > > > >> night and then DIDN'T make a connection _in his own mind_ that
>> > > > >> the Magnetofons he saw after the war were the "culprit." I
>> > > > >> don't know why this is suddenly a "myth."
>> > It's a
>> > > > >> recollection, not a statement
>> > > > >> of wide historical fact. It's one man's history, hard to
>> > > > >> disprove
>> > > > because
>> > > > >> only he experienced it.
>> > > > >> Furthermore, it's innocuous, it's not like Les Paul claiming
>> to
>> > invent
>> > > > >> things he clearly did not
>> > > > >> invent, for example.
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >> All of that said, this raises what is my major trepidation
>> with
>> > > > >> the
>> > > AES
>> > > > >> aggressively marketing its
>> > > > >> oral history interviews. On the one hand, they are very
>> > > > >> interesting
>> > > > because
>> > > > >> you get a flavor for and
>> > > > >> hear the words of people who have shaped the recording
>> industry
>> > > > >> in
>> > > > modern
>> > > > >> (and not so modern) times.
>> > > > >> On the other hand, it's potentially a massive myth amplifier
>> > > > >> because
>> > > > it's
>> > > > >> all unsourced one-person
>> > > > >> recollections many years removed from the events and facts. As
>> > > > >> long
>> > as
>> > > > >> people understand it as such,
>> > > > >> that's fine. But remember, we have a generation plus of people
>> > > > >> who
>> > > were
>> > > > not
>> > > > >> thoroughly schooled due
>> > > > >> to a lousy education system and who are known to, in general,
>> > > > >> have
>> > > > trouble
>> > > > >> discerning fact from
>> > > > >> myth. They see a DVD of a "legend" and take the stories to all
>> > > > >> by
>> > true
>> > > > by
>> > > > >> authority of the person's
>> > > > >> "legend" status. Perhaps I'm doing that very thing with Jack
>> > Mullin's
>> > > > story,
>> > > > >> although I see it as so
>> > > > >> innocuous it's irrelevant to actual history. Mullin's role in
>> > > > >> audio
>> > > > history
>> > > > >> took place from the time
>> > > > >> he shipped a German tape machine home, so him listening to
>> > broadcasts
>> > > > in
>> > > > >> England years earlier makes
>> > > > >> no difference except in his personal telling of the tale.
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >> What's relevant from Mullin is that he was a main force in
>> > > > >> spreading
>> > > > and
>> > > > >> commercializing high
>> > > > >> fidelity magnetic recording in the massive U.S. market. What
>> > > > >> made
>> > him
>> > > > >> different from Ranger and from
>> > > > >> Armour Foundation? He hooked up with Ampex and Bing Crosby and
>> > > therefore
>> > > > had
>> > > > >> instant financial and
>> > > > >> marketing power behind his version of a commercial tape
>> > > > >> machine,
>> > plus
>> > > he
>> > > > had
>> > > > >> an unmatched stable of
>> > > > >> design engineers at Ampex. Compare a circa 1949 Ampex 200
>> > > > >> machine to
>> > > > what
>> > > > >> Ranger and Armour were
>> > > > >> peddling and you can see why Mullin is now associated with
>> > > professional
>> > > > tape
>> > > > >> recording in America.
>> > > > >> What about Fairchild, which was in-market at just about the
>> > > > >> same
>> > time
>> > > > with a
>> > > > >> commercial-grade tape
>> > > > >> recorder? As far as I can tell, not enough of a marketing
>> > > > >> behind it,
>> > > > not
>> > > > >> enough production to build
>> > > > >> quickly to supply a major radio network like Ampex could do
>> > > > >> with
>> > ABC,
>> > > and
>> > > > no
>> > > > >> ability to follow up
>> > > > >> with a machine that can do the same thing in a smaller size
>> for
>> > > > >> a
>> > > lower
>> > > > cost
>> > > > >> (Ampex did it with the
>> > > > >> 300 and then the 350, over the course of just a few years).
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >> -- Tom Fine
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >> ----- Original Message -----
>> > > > >> From: "George Brock-Nannestad" <[log in to unmask]>
>> > > > >> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>> > > > >> Sent: Friday, October 03, 2014 6:15 PM
>> > > > >> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Ethics, was: Article on Charlie and
>> > Orchestra
>> > > > and
>> > > > >> WWII Jazz propaganda
>> > > > >> records
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >> > From: Patent Tactics, George Brock-Nannestad
>> > > > >> >
>> > > > >> >
>> > > > >> >
>> > > > >> > Hello,
>> > > > >> >
>> > > > >> > at a time when we oldtimers begin to refer to our firsts and
>> > defend
>> > > > our
>> > > > >> turf,
>> > > > >> > perhaps it is o.k. to note that searching for my name as an
>> > > > >> > author
>> > > in
>> > > > the
>> > > > >> AES
>> > > > >> > E-Library will bring some 15 hits, the earliest of which is:
>> > > > >> >
>> > > > >> > "Comments on -The History of Magnetic Recording- " and
>> > > > >> > "Author's
>> > > > Reply"
>> > > > >> >
>> > > > >> > Authors: Brock-Nannestad, George; Mullin, John T.
>> > > > >> > JAES Volume 29 Issue 7/8 pp. 524-525; August 1981
>> > > > >> >
>> > > > >> > Here I take Jack Mullin to task for peddling his story in
>> the
>> > > > >> > 1977 Anniversary Issue of the Journal of the AES (otherwise
>> > > > >> > well worth
>> > > > >> obtaining),
>> > > > >> > and I prove that technical literature available outside
>> > > > >> > Germany
>> > even
>> > > > >> during
>> > > > >> > WW2 was quite open about the (re-)discovery by Weber of AC
>> > > > >> > bias
>> > and
>> > > > the
>> > > > >> > tremendous increase in quality obtained. It was published as
>> > > > >> > early
>> > > as
>> > > > >> July
>> > > > >> > 1941. His response was not really to the point, if I
>> remember
>> > > > correctly.
>> > > > >> And
>> > > > >> > it seems he continued his narrative (much like when Bruce
>> > > > >> > Swedien
>> > > > with
>> > > > >> gusto
>> > > > >> > tells a story about how he smacked the bottom of a famous
>> > > > >> > singer
>> > --
>> > > > name
>> > > > >> > escapes me).
>> > > > >> >
>> > > > >> > I had slightly later correspondence with the JAES where I
>> > > > >> > wished
>> > to
>> > > > put
>> > > > >> > certain assertions in a two-part historical overview by a
>> > > > >> > Philips
>> > > man
>> > > > >> right
>> > > > >> > -- once again someone peddling stupid misunderstandings --
>> > > > >> > but
>> > they
>> > > > did
>> > > > >> not
>> > > > >> > want to publish. That was probably because they thought that
>> > > > >> > such
>> > a
>> > > > big
>> > > > >> > institution (which it was then) could not be mistaken.
>> > > > >> >
>> > > > >> > Ah, we have to stand up for ourselves!
>> > > > >> >
>> > > > >> > Kind regards,
>> > > > >> >
>> > > > >> >
>> > > > >> > George
>> > > > >> >
>> > > > >> >
>> > > > >> > --------------------------------------------
>> > > > >> >
>> > > > >> > Tom Fine wrote
>> > > > >> >> As I understand it, by the time Mullin was monitoring those
>> > > > broadcasts,
>> > > > >> the
>> > > > >> >> Germans were using AC
>> > > > >> >> bias and were making very high-quality tape recordings,
>> > > > >> >> higher
>> > > > quality
>> > > > >> than
>> > > > >> >> any competing media at
>> > > > >> >> the time. You are correct that early Magnetofons that used
>> > > > >> >> DC
>> > bias
>> > > > >> produced
>> > > > >> >> a distorted,
>> > > > >> >> low-fidelity sound quality. See Jay McKnight's paper on how
>> > > > >> >> the
>> > > > >> Germans
>> > > > >> >> appear to have
>> > > > >> >> independently "discovered" the idea of AC bias years after
>> > > > >> >> it was
>> > > > >> discovered
>> > > > >> >> and written about by
>> > > > >> >> Bell Labs scientists.
>> > > > >> >>
>> > > > >> >> Philips-Miller is not a "tape" system by any stretch. It is
>> > OPTICAL
>> > > > >> >> playback, just like common at the time sound-film. The
>> > > > >> >> recording is not optical, it is a
>> > > > mechanical
>> > > > >> >> etching stylus that creates an optical soundtrack on
>> > > > >> >> black-coated film. The sound quality was
>> > > > better
>> > > > >> than
>> > > > >> >> most 78RPM disk recorders
>> > > > >> >> but not on par with AC bias magnetic tape.
>> > > > >> >>
>> > > > >> >> Bell Labs/WECO did indeed produce disk recording systems
>> > > > >> >> capable
>> > of
>> > > > >> higher
>> > > > >> >> fidelity than what was
>> > > > >> >> typically used for commercial recordings in the 1930s, but
>> I
>> > would
>> > > > say
>> > > > >> that,
>> > > > >> >> side-by-side, AC bias
>> > > > >> >> magnetic tape would sound higher-fidelity to most if not
>> all
>> > ears.
>> > > > >> >>
>> > > > >> >> -- Tom Fine
>> > > > >> >>
>> > > > >> >> ----- Original Message -----
>> > > > >> >> From: "Michael Biel" <[log in to unmask]>
>> > > > >> >> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>> > > > >> >> Sent: Friday, October 03, 2014 2:24 PM
>> > > > >> >> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Ethics, was: Article on Charlie and
>> > > > Orchestra
>> > > > >> and
>> > > > >> >> WWII Jazz propaganda
>> > > > >> >> records
>> > > > >> >>
>> > > > >> >>
>> > > > >> >> >I think the story about hearing high quality recordings on
>> > > > >> >> >Nazi
>> > > > radio
>> > > > >> >> > and wondering how they did it is bull. For years he
>> > > > >> >> > talked
>> > about
>> > > > >> Hitler
>> > > > >> >> > speeches given at odd times and places. That was just
>> > > > >> >> > plain
>> > > dumb,
>> > > > >> >> > because a speaker is where the announcer says he is. Same
>> > > > >> >> > with
>> > > an
>> > > > >> >> > orchestra. It is in the city where the announcer says it
>> is.
>> > > Odd
>> > > > >> >> > times? It had been possible to make recordings of
>> > > > >> >> > sparkling
>> > high
>> > > > >> >> > fidelity -- MUCH better than the Magnetophon and
>> certainly
>> > > > >> >> > much
>> > > > >> better
>> > > > >> >> > than long-range AM and SW broadcasting -- since the early
>> > > > >> >> > 30s
>> > on
>> > > > >> Western
>> > > > >> >> > Electric Wide Range Vertical. No side joins? How about
>> > Philips
>> > > > >> Miller
>> > > > >> >> > tape? It was well known by broadcasters, often used in
>> > > > >> >> > Europe,
>> > > > and
>> > > > >> had
>> > > > >> >> > better sound quality than the early Magnetophon. Listen
>> > > > >> >> > to the air-checks of German radio made during the war.
>> > > > >> >> > ANY thought
>> > that
>> > > > >> >> > Mullin's stories are any more than wishful thinking and
>> > downright
>> > > > >> >> > self-aggrandizing fairy tales is nonsense. By the way,
>> > although
>> > > I
>> > > > >> talk
>> > > > >> >> > about AM radio being capable of high frequency response
>> is
>> > > > >> >> > ONLY concerning the United States. There were top-end
>> > > > >> >> > filtering
>> > > > >> requirements
>> > > > >> >> > in Europe. Plus, the communications receivers used by
>> > monitoring
>> > > > >> >> > stations were designed for selectivity, and thus were
>> > relatively
>> > > > >> >> > narrowband so that they could squeeze inbetween stations.
>> > > > >> >> >
>> > > > >> >> >
>> > > > >> >> > Mike Biel [log in to unmask]
>> > > > >> >> >
>> > > > >> >> >
>> > > > >> >> >
>> > > > >> >> > -------- Original Message --------
>> > > > >> >> > Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Ethics, was: Article on Charlie
>> > > > >> >> > and
>> > > > Orchestra
>> > > > >> >> > and WWII Jazz propaganda records
>> > > > >> >> > From: Tom Fine <[log in to unmask]>
>> > > > >> >> > Date: Fri, October 03, 2014 1:55 pm
>> > > > >> >> > To: [log in to unmask]
>> > > > >> >> >
>> > > > >> >> > Not only did the Nazis consider broadcast of high-quality
>> > > > >> >> > music
>> > > to
>> > > > be
>> > > > >> >> > essential for homefront
>> > > > >> >> > morale, they also somewhat confounded those Allied forces
>> > > > listening
>> > > > >> in
>> > > > >> >> > on their broadcasts. Jack
>> > > > >> >> > Mullin often told the story of hearing German broadcasts
>> > > > >> >> > of
>> > > > classical
>> > > > >> >> > orchestras in the middle of the night, the sound quality
>> > > > >> >> > being like a live broadcast. He
>> > and
>> > > > his
>> > > > >> >> > colleagues were surprised that German broadcasters would
>> > > > >> >> > keep orchestras going all night, and
>> > > > that
>> > > > >> >> > audiences would show up to hear them and applaud. At the
>> > > > >> >> > end of the war, he found out they were
>> > > > using
>> > > > >> >> > the AC bias Magnetofon to
>> > > > >> >> > delay-broadcast recorded content, and the tape recordings
>> > > > >> >> > were
>> > > > >> near-live
>> > > > >> >> > quality when broadcast over shortwave to England.
>> > > > >> >> >
>> > > > >> >> > Regarding the topic at hand, I sympathize with Rainer
>> > > > >> >> > about
>> > > > pirates
>> > > > >> and
>> > > > >> >> > gray-market peddlers. This is a slimy way to take
>> > > > >> >> > advantage of overly liberal copyright
>> > laws
>> > > > in
>> > > > >> >> > some European countries. I have no problem with small
>> > > > >> >> > labels issuing material not in print from
>> > > > major
>> > > > >> >> > labels, but I think they
>> > > > >> >> > should pay a licensing fee and use a high-quality
>> transfer
>> > > > >> >> > of
>> > > > master
>> > > > >> >> > media if it exists. I realize this isn't always possible,
>> > > > >> >> > and I think there should be reform
>> > of
>> > > > >> >> > copyright laws to compel master media owners to either
>> > > > >> >> > issue material or put it in the PD, with
>> > > > the
>> > > > >> >> > requirement that a reasonable fee be paid to license a
>> > > > >> >> > high quality transfer of the master
>> > > media.
>> > > > I
>> > > > >> am
>> > > > >> >> > vehemently opposed to
>> > > > >> >> > crapola gray-market needle-drop junk, and I wish more
>> > > > >> >> > legal
>> > > action
>> > > > >> were
>> > > > >> >> > taken against those who
>> > > > >> >> > purvey it. It is harmful to artists and copyright owners
>> > because
>> > > > the
>> > > > >> >> > poor quality degrades the brand equity and credibility of
>> > > > >> >> > those who made the master media. It's
>> > > > also
>> > > > >> not
>> > > > >> >> > worth one penny to would-be buyers because it's generally
>> > > > >> >> > garbage audio. It's also worth
>> > > > noting
>> > > > >> that
>> > > > >> >> > people who do legitimate
>> > > > >> >> > speciality-market reissues are telling me that the major
>> > > copyright
>> > > > >> >> > owners are easier to deal with than they were several
>> > > > >> >> > years ago, so if one were right now in
>> > the
>> > > > >> >> > cellar-dweller gray market and wanted to go legit, it's
>> > > > >> >> > probably easier than ever to make a
>> > > > >> licensing
>> > > > >> >> > agreement and get high
>> > > > >> >> > quality transfers of master media.
>> > > > >> >> >
>> > > > >> >> > -- Tom Fine
>> > > > >> >> >
>> > > > >> >> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > > > >> >> > From: "Michael Biel" <[log in to unmask]>
>> > > > >> >> > To: <[log in to unmask]>
>> > > > >> >> > Sent: Friday, October 03, 2014 1:35 PM
>> > > > >> >> > Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Ethics, was: Article on Charlie
>> > > > >> >> > and
>> > > > Orchestra
>> > > > >> >> > and WWII Jazz propaganda
>> > > > >> >> > records
>> > > > >> >> >
>> > > > >> >> >
>> > > > >> >> >>I added another part to my comment to the article :" It
>> is
>> > > > >> >> >>also inaccurate to suggest that the Nazis did not attempt
>> > > > >> >> >>to use
>> > the
>> > > > >> finest
>> > > > >> >> >> of their musical arts in their propaganda broadcasts
>> > > > >> >> >> because
>> > > they
>> > > > >> did.
>> > > > >> >> >> The amount of their classical music broadcasts and
>> > > > >> >> >> recordings
>> > > > made
>> > > > >> for
>> > > > >> >> >> broadcast during the war are staggering. Charlie was
>> only
>> > > > >> >> >> a
>> > very
>> > > > >> small
>> > > > >> >> >> part."
>> > > > >> >> >>
>> > > > >> >> >>
>> > > > >> >> >> The first part of the post is:"
>> > > > >> >> >> "ALL of the basic research on Charlie and His Orchestra,
>> > > > including
>> > > > >> >> >> identifying who the participants in the recordings were,
>> > > > >> >> >> and
>> > ALL
>> > > > of
>> > > > >> the
>> > > > >> >> >> details of where and when each of the recordings were
>> > > > >> >> >> made,
>> > was
>> > > > done
>> > > > >> by
>> > > > >> >> >> noted German researcher and discographer Rainer E. Lotz.
>> > > > >> >> >> There
>> > > > have
>> > > > >> >> >> been several authorized releases of recordings from Herr
>> > Lotz's
>> > > > >> >> >> collection starting in 1975, but the Properbox mentioned
>> > > > >> >> >> in
>> > the
>> > > > >> article
>> > > > >> >> >> was not one of them. They also copied some of the
>> > > > >> >> >> information
>> > > and
>> > > > >> >> >> exclusive photographs and captions from his book
>> > > > >> >> >> "Hitler's
>> > > > Airwaves"
>> > > > >> >> >> without attribution. My friend Will Friedwald and the
>> WSJ
>> > should
>> > > > >> >> >> support the legitimate researchers and sources of
>> recordings."
>> > > > >> >> >>
>> > > > >> >> >>
>> > > > >> >> >> Mike Biel mbiel@
>> > > > >> >> >> mbiel.com
>> > > > >> >> >>
>> > > > >> >> >> -------- Original Message --------
>> > > > >> >> >> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Ethics, was: Article on Charlie
>> > > > >> >> >> and
>> > > > >> Orchestra
>> > > > >> >> >> and WWII Jazz propaganda records
>> > > > >> >> >> From: "Dr Rainer E. Lotz" <[log in to unmask]>
>> > > > >> >> >> Date: Fri, October 03, 2014 1:27 pm
>> > > > >> >> >> To: [log in to unmask]
>> > > > >> >> >>
>> > > > >> >> >> Mike, the link is
>> > > > >> >> >>
>> > http://online.wsj.com/articles/charlie-his-orchestra-1412202368
>> > > > >> >> >> and here Friedwald joins many other reviewers commenting
>> > > > >> >> >> on
>> > the
>> > > > >> stage
>> > > > >> >> >> play "Propaganda Swing", just google "Billy Arnott" and
>> > > > "Propaganda
>> > > > >> >> >> Swing".
>> > > > >> >> >> (Actually, I coined the term for a CD-reissue, but there
>> > > > >> >> >> is
>> > > > >> certainly
>> > > > >> >> >> no
>> > > > >> >> >> copyright on THAT - it is just a catchy phrase...).
>> > > > >> >> >> What upsets me most is the recommendation of a pirate
>> label.
>> > We
>> > > > had
>> > > > >> a
>> > > > >> >> >> discussion about that recently on facebook, involving
>> > > > >> >> >> Lance
>> > > > >> Ledbetter,
>> > > > >> >> >> John Ward, John Tefteller and me on the one hand, and
>> > > > >> >> >> Hans
>> > > > Eekhoff
>> > > > >> on
>> > > > >> >> >> the other hand.
>> > > > >> >> >> I have not seen the play and all I know I gather from
>> the
>> > > > internet
>> > > > >> >> >> reviews and publicity.
>> > > > >> >> >> (As a funny aside: The box is called "Swing tanzen
>> > > > >> >> >> verboten",
>> > > and
>> > > > >> the
>> > > > >> >> >> reproduction of a metal sign is shown on the cover. That
>> > > > >> >> >> sign
>> > > was
>> > > > a
>> > > > >> >> >> hoax
>> > > > >> >> >> design invented by a graphic designer in the 1970 or
>> > > > >> >> >> 1980s -
>> > no
>> > > > such
>> > > > >> >> >> sign was ever in use in Nazi Germany).
>> > > > >> >> >> Rainer
>> > > > >> >> >>
>> > > > >> >> >>
>> > > > >> >> >>
>> > > > >> >> >>
>> > > > >> >> >>
>> > > > >> >> >> Am 03.10.2014 18:43, schrieb Michael Biel:
>> > > > >> >> >> > Since the article by Will is not available on the web
>> > > > >> >> >> > today,
>> > > > and
>> > > > >> >> >> since
>> > > > >> >> >> > apparently, according to the discussion, has seen fit
>> > > > >> >> >> > to
>> > > borrow
>> > > > >> >> >> Rainer's
>> > > > >> >> >> > research without attribution, and has promoted a
>> > > > >> >> >> > similar
>> > > > pirating
>> > > > >> >> >> > source, can someone give us a cut-and-paste of the
>> article?
>> > I
>> > > > know
>> > > > >> >> >> Will
>> > > > >> >> >> > and would like to discuss this with him from the
>> > > > >> >> >> > standpoint
>> > of
>> > > > >> >> >> knowing
>> > > > >> >> >> > what he has written. Considering the WSJ is a Rupert
>> > > > >> >> >> > Murdoch publication, there is a possibility that any
>> > > > >> >> >> > lack of ethics
>> > > > might
>> > > > >> >> >> have
>> > > > >> >> >> > come from the editing and management of the paper
>> > > > >> >> >> > rather
>> > than
>> > > > the
>> > > > >> >> >> author
>> > > > >> >> >> > of the article. They deserve NO protection at this
>> point.
>> > > > >> >> >> >
>> > > > >> >> >> > Mike Biel [log in to unmask]
>> > > > >> >> >> >
>> > > > >> >> >> > -------- Original Message --------
>> > > > >> >> >> > Subject: [ARSCLIST] Ethics, was: Article on Charlie
>> and
>> > > > Orchestra
>> > > > >> and
>> > > > >> >> >> > WWII Jazz propaganda records
>> > > > >> >> >> > From: "Dr Rainer E. Lotz" <[log in to unmask]>
>> > > > >> >> >> > Date: Fri, October 03, 2014 7:19 am
>> > > > >> >> >> > To: [log in to unmask]
>> > > > >> >> >> >
>> > > > >> >> >> > Am 03.10.2014 13:32, schrieb Don Cox:
>> > > > >> >> >> >> On 02/10/2014, Dr Rainer E. Lotz wrote:
>> > > > >> >> >> >>
>> > > > >> >> >> >>> It is amazing how many people copy and plagiarize
>> the
>> > story
>> > > > that
>> > > > >> I
>> > > > >> >> >> >>> have unveiled in a monograph ("Hitler's Airwaves",
>> > > > >> >> >> >>> 1997,
>> > it
>> > > > won
>> > > > >> an
>> > > > >> >> >> >>> ARSC award) and the many LPs and CDs I have prepared
>> > > > >> >> >> >>> since
>> > > > 1975,
>> > > > >> as
>> > > > >> >> >> >>> well as a movie film ("Propaganda Swing", 1991) all
>> > > > >> >> >> >>> using
>> > > > discs
>> > > > >> and
>> > > > >> >> >> >>> paperwork from my personal collection. Here then are
>> > > > >> >> >> >>> a
>> > > couple
>> > > > >> more
>> > > > >> >> >> >>> authors who not only manage NOT to mention my name
>> > > > >> >> >> >>> and
>> > > > original
>> > > > >> >> >> >>> research (Friedwald does mention Kater, who touches
>> > > > >> >> >> >>> the
>> > > > subject
>> > > > >> >> >> only
>> > > > >> >> >> >>> in passing), but even more disturbing: he recommends
>> > > > >> >> >> >>> the
>> > > > Proper
>> > > > >> >> >> Box.
>> > > > >> >> >> >>> Proper is one of the most notorious and disgusting
>> > > > >> >> >> >>> pirates
>> > > in
>> > > > >> the
>> > > > >> >> >> >>> "business" and the entire content of the box is
>> > > > >> >> >> >>> stolen
>> > from
>> > > > CDs
>> > > > >> >> >> that I
>> > > > >> >> >> >>> have published. We live in an unethical world.
>> Rainer
>> > > > >> >> >> >>>
>> > > > >> >> >> >> Once something is on the web, you have given it away.
>> > > > >> >> >> > Probably true, to a certain extent. But in this case,
>> > > > >> >> >> > it was
>> > > > not
>> > > > >> on
>> > > > >> >> >> the
>> > > > >> >> >> > web, it was in print, on CDs, and on film. Proper even
>> > > > >> >> >> > went
>> > to
>> > > > the
>> > > > >> >> >> > extent of copying images from my book and had the
>> > > > >> >> >> > chuzpe to
>> > > > also
>> > > > >> copy
>> > > > >> >> >> > the captions.
>> > > > >> >> >> >
>> > > > >> >> >> >
>> > > > >> >> >> >> Hasn't the world always been unethical ? At least,
>> > > > >> >> >> >> since
>> > the
>> > > > >> first
>> > > > >> >> >> >> appearance of life on this planet.
>> > > > >> >> >> > Well, maybe since the evolution of mankind. But my
>> > > > >> >> >> > feeling
>> > is
>> > > > that
>> > > > >> >> >> the
>> > > > >> >> >> > moral barriers against stealing, robbing, copying,
>> > > > plagiarizing,
>> > > > >> >> >> > bootlegging, pirating are lower than ever. And the
>> > > > >> >> >> > greed
>> > among
>> > > > >> buyers
>> > > > >> >> >> is
>> > > > >> >> >> >
>> > > > >> >> >> > such that illegal copies are often being purchased
>> even
>> > though
>> > > > the
>> > > > >> >> >> buyer
>> > > > >> >> >> >
>> > > > >> >> >> > KNOWS it is a pirated product.
>> > > > >> >> >> > Legitimate CD producers invest a lot of money, time,
>> > > > >> >> >> > and
>> > > > research
>> > > > >> in
>> > > > >> >> >> > order to identify and purchase the best surviving
>> > > > >> >> >> > copies of
>> > > the
>> > > > >> >> >> sounds
>> > > > >> >> >> > and images, use specialists to obtain the best
>> possible
>> > > > transfers,
>> > > > >> >> >> have
>> > > > >> >> >> > the liner notes written by experts in the field. This
>> > applies
>> > > > also
>> > > > >> to
>> > > > >> >> >> > items which are otherwise in the public domain. The
>> > > > >> >> >> > pirate
>> > > > simply
>> > > > >> >> >> buys a
>> > > > >> >> >> >
>> > > > >> >> >> > recordable blank CD, and copies everything 1:1 for
>> less
>> > than a
>> > > > >> >> >> dollar.
>> > > > >> >> >> > Sometimes even burning on demand.
>> > > > >> >> >> >
>> > > > >> >> >> > Yes, you can challenge this in court. IF the case is
>> > accepted
>> > > > in
>> > > > >> the
>> > > > >> >> >> > first place, and that is by no means certain, you
>> spend
>> > > perhaps
>> > > > >> tens
>> > > > >> >> >> of
>> > > > >> >> >> > thousands of dollars for lawyers and fees. And even IF
>> > > > >> >> >> > you
>> > win
>> > > > the
>> > > > >> >> >> case,
>> > > > >> >> >> >
>> > > > >> >> >> > the culprit announces bankruptcy, and opens another
>> > > > >> brick-in-the-wall
>> > > > >> >> >> > business around the corner.
>> > > > >> >> >> >
>> > > > >> >> >> > That may be a fact of life. But I, a confessing Don
>> > Quichotte,
>> > > > >> refuse
>> > > > >> >> >> to
>> > > > >> >> >> >
>> > > > >> >> >> > accept it.
>> > > > >> >> >> >
>> > > > >> >> >> > And lastly, I notice with discomfort that many
>> > "journalists",
>> > > > who
>> > > > >> >> >> earn
>> > > > >> >> >> > their living as freelance writers, google the internet
>> > > > >> >> >> > for
>> > > > >> >> >> interesting
>> > > > >> >> >> > items and then publish stories under their own name as
>> > > > >> >> >> > if
>> > they
>> > > > had
>> > > > >> >> >> just
>> > > > >> >> >> > discovered the facts themselves. One of the tricks is
>> > > > >> >> >> > to use
>> > > > >> >> >> Wikipedia
>> > > > >> >> >> > and to mention secondary sources, but to obtain the
>> > > > >> >> >> > meat and
>> > > > flesh
>> > > > >> >> >> from
>> > > > >> >> >> > the original source which is not disclosed. I may be
>> > paranoid,
>> > > > but
>> > > > >> I
>> > > > >> >> >> > seem to noticed quite a few such occurrences recently.
>> > > > >> >> >> >
>> > > > >> >> >> > Rainer
>> > > > >> >> >> >
>> > > > >> >> >>
>> > > > >> >> >>
>> > > > >> >> >> --
>> > > > >> >> >> Dr. Rainer E. Lotz
>> > > > >> >> >> Rotdornweg 81
>> > > > >> >> >> 53177 Bonn (Germany)
>> > > > >> >> >>
>> > > > >> >> >> Tel: 0049-228-352808
>> > > > >> >> >> Fax: 0049-228-365142
>> > > > >> >> >> Web: www.lotz-verlag.de
>> > > > >> >> >>
>> > > > >> >> >>
>> > > > >> >> >
>> > > > >> >> >
>> > > > >> >
>> > > > >> >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > 1006 Langer Way
>> > Delray Beach, FL 33483
>> > 212.874.9626
>> >
>>
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