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ARSCLIST  December 2014

ARSCLIST December 2014

Subject:

Re: Sony 601-esd pcm audiio processor decoder

From:

John Gledhill <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Thu, 11 Dec 2014 22:54:44 -0500

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (116 lines)

Tom -
o    The tape are recorded in the 14 bit mode with TOSHIBA DX-900. They 
actually have FM tracks of the same material
o    I am capturing both the FM and PCM

To David Glasser
o        I understand re the sample rate.
o      live performance recordings - 6 hours per tape

I have the 14 bit recovery working well with the EP tapes and have a 
solid right green on (or flashing) MOST of the time.
I just wanted to know the significance of the LEDs

I actually record a new tape through the coax in from a CD player to the 
601-esd (16 bit) , and then played the tape back and captured through 
spdif to compare the waveforms. I think the the 601 saturates slightly 
before 0x7ffff (around 0x7fef) but the lower values were a bit for bit 
match.

To Rob Poretti
o I agree re the 14 bit versus the 16 bit - if  the 601-esd does not 
like the VCR then more error correction will win.
o However, from watching the screen it is no 1 party bit versus two 
parity bits.
I think all of the stuff on the right hand side of the screen is error 
correction data. Each line has 3 word pairs and a huge pile of ECC . 
Roughly 3 * 15.75 minus the time lost during the vertical will give you 
the 44.056 This is also confirmed by the fact I can pop up the on-screen 
diiplay from the VCR and mot hear any errors,. Like a CD the ECC is 
spread over tape space = time to work around dropouts

Is it  important to correct for a 1/2 sample offset. Is this not the 
same as moving one speaker in a stereo pair 3mm  further back.

Slightly interesting aside.
While doing my experimenting for this I tried feeding the video from a 
vcr through a time base corrector to clean it up before going to the 
601-esd. Video looked much more stable on the screen but the 601-esd did 
not like this arrangement and the tracking bar stayed on the left. 
Perhaps it was the digital re-sampling in the TBC that cause this result.


Anyways - I am getting very clean audio back from the ep tapes and 
wanted to know about the lights.

I might guess that the guy who designed the LSI to do the decoding put 
the logic outputs there for his own diagnostic purposes and a bright 
marketing guy said "we have left oer LEDs - lets use em" with no one 
really writing down what they meant.





On 12/11/2014 7:44 PM, Tom Fine wrote:
> Hi John:
>
> My experience is that NO F1 decoder works well with 16-bit recordings 
> made at EP speed. I also think that later VHS machines with 
> auto-tracking may not align best for F1 recovery because they were 
> designed to also take into account VHS-HIFI signal. A 
> professional-quality VHS deck, even a late-era VHS-HIFI deck, will 
> have a tracking control, but the consumer models lost the tracking 
> control shortly after VHS-HIFI was developed.
>
> I'm curious, what sort of material are you working with and how many 
> tapes?
>
> -- Tom Fine
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Gledhill" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2014 4:45 PM
> Subject: [ARSCLIST] Sony 601-esd pcm audiio processor decoder
>
>
>> I am recovering sony F1 type audio (PCM and ECC in the video image) 
>> from some VHS tapes (ep speed 6 hr per tape)  - it was actually 
>> recorded with a Toshiba version.
>> I have the manual for the Sony 601-esd and I think is says the boobie 
>> lights (Red, FlashRed, FlashGreen, FlashGreen, SteadyGreen) is a 
>> logical procession from poor signal to good signal.
>> Additionally there is a tracking indicator (bar graph moving to the 
>> right)
>>
>> I can see from the schematic the LED's are driven from the decoding 
>> logic (didn't really need a schematic for that one).
>>
>> However, I an not find out at which point errors are still being 
>> corrected (apparently a few red flashes are fine) and at what point I 
>> can not count on the data.
>> I am recovering through the spdif -> PC.
>>
>> I am hoping there there is a audio archivists list with somebody who 
>> used these 30 years ago and thought to ask Sony exactly what was 
>> being measured with the lights.
>>
>> P.S. I found the Sony 601-esd encoder/decoder is not a good match 
>> with most later model VCR's and ep tapes. (the data on the back of a 
>> VCR switch disappeared years ago).
>>
>> -- 
>> John Gledhill
>> BIT WORKS Inc.
>> 905 881 2733
>> [log in to unmask]
>>
>>
>

-- 
John Gledhill
BIT WORKS Inc.
905 881 2733
[log in to unmask]

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