LISTSERV mailing list manager LISTSERV 16.0

Help for ARSCLIST Archives


ARSCLIST Archives

ARSCLIST Archives


[email protected]


View:

Message:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Topic:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Author:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

Font:

Proportional Font

LISTSERV Archives

LISTSERV Archives

ARSCLIST Home

ARSCLIST Home

ARSCLIST  April 2015

ARSCLIST April 2015

Subject:

Re: SACD "surprise"

From:

David Lewis <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sun, 5 Apr 2015 10:13:53 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (197 lines)

My two cents on Pierre Boulez. I met him in 1995 and still have the t-shirt
DGG circulated on his behalf during that tour. I like Pierre very much
personally;
he is absolutely fearless, confident and actually thrives on negative
criticism in a way I never could. I like many of his old Domain Musicale
recordings and
even some of his earlier, un-tampered with compositions. His DG of "Le
Sacre" is as the 1947 score appears on the page; it sounds more or less
exactly as
the score reads. And that's my problem with it; it lacks personality and
fire. I agree more with Dorati and especially with Igor Markevitch who
preferred an old,
outdated version of the score and raised a lot of hell with it. I have
issues with Boulez' various announcements about where Western music should
go, and
what really matters in music today. I heard a radio interview with him the
other day and I hated all of the musical examples that they chose. Pierre
is 90,
best regards to him, but that doesn't mean I have to like what he's done.

Thanks,

David N. Lewis

On Sun, Apr 5, 2015 at 8:48 AM, Tom Fine <[log in to unmask]>
wrote:

> Hi John:
>
> I think what you're hearing with 96k is the 24-bit word length. I am not
> convinced that the super-high sampling rates capture anything audible above
> what 44.1 or 48k capture, but I do think that the Nyquist filtering and
> other factors make the audible top end sound better. However, many DACs
> up-sample 44.1k before filtering and converting anyway. For instance, the
> Benchmark design, of which there are many variants, up-samples everything
> to three hundred and something kiloHertz, re-clocking so as to strip out
> jitter, then converts to analog.
>
> Here's a "white paper" about Benchmark's DAC1 approach:
> http://benchmarkmedia.com/blogs/white-papers/13127453-
> asynchronous-upsampling-to-110-khz
>
> For the DAC2 series, the describe the "improved" system this way:
> -------------------------------------------
> UltraLock2™ Jitter Attenuation System
>
> UltraLock2™ is an improved version of the UltraLock™ system used in the
> DAC1 and ADC1 product families. DSP processing is 32-bits, DSP headroom is
> 3.5 dB, sample rate is 211 kHz, and jitter-induced distortion and noise is
> at least 140 dB below the level of the music - well below the threshold of
> hearing. Benchmark's UltraLock2™ system eliminates all audible jitter
> artifacts.
> ---------------------------------------------
>
> Up-sampling and over-sampling DAC designs have been around for a long
> time, but I do think modern designs are more sophisticated in how they
> strip out jitter from the source. The consumer high-end designers first got
> the jitter-rejection religion, especially when they started recognizing
> consumer demand for USB interfaces (USB is notorious for jitter due to
> inconsistent clocking built into typical computer CPUs). Companies like
> Benchmark and Mytek and Lynx, which have feet in both consumer and pro
> audio, have put out well-reviewed and good-sounding, to my ears,
> jitter-rejecting products in recent times. The other focus where I think
> some strides have been made recently is the analog stage after conversion,
> there are some super-quiet and near-transparent designs out there now. A
> modern digital system should operate so quietly that it essentially has no
> audible noise floor in even a quiet real-world room.
>
> A simple test would be to convert some well-known analog material at 96/16
> and 48/16 and see if you hear a difference. Then 96/24 and 48/24, and then
> compare the 24-bits to the 16-bits. I think that's where you'll hear the
> differences.
>
> To my ears, 24-bit makes a difference, especially with "air and space" in
> something like an orchestral recording. Just transferring in 24-bit makes a
> difference, if you've got a good dither-down conversion system to get to a
> CD master.
>
> -- Tom Fine
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Haley" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Sunday, April 05, 2015 2:44 AM
>
> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] SACD "surprise"
>
>
>  CORRECTION.  When I said "catching a whole octave above 48 kHz in
>> frequency," I meant "catching a whole octave in frequency above what is
>> captured by a 48 kHz sampling rate."  Sorry about that.
>>
>> Best,
>> John
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Apr 5, 2015 at 2:38 AM, John Haley <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>
>>  Thanks for posting the NY Times Boulez article, Tom, which could have
>>> been
>>> entitled "A bunch of famous musicians sitting around kissing up to Pierre
>>> Boulez."  They remark how "influential" (i.e, famous) he is.  That he is.
>>> Does that make him a great conductor? Nope.  I loved the Gunther Schiller
>>> quote.  Obviously, Boulez has occasionally succeeded with a piece of
>>> music.  Like they say, even a stopped clock is right twice a day.  And
>>> many
>>> great orchestras could occasionally deliver a great performance even
>>> while
>>> ignoring a monkey on the podium.
>>>
>>> If DGG digital recordings had max resolution of 48 kHz, as you know that
>>> is not an appreciable difference from 44.1 kHz.  The difference in
>>> frequencies (pitches) those sampling rates will capture is the difference
>>> between 22,500 and 24,000 Hz.  Way up there, that is a difference of
>>> only a
>>> note or two (think extended piano keyboard).  I have never been able to
>>> hear the slightest difference between a recording at 44.1 kHz and one at
>>> 48
>>> kHz.  Recording at 96 kHz is a whole 'nother thing, catching a whole
>>> octave
>>> above 48 kHz in frequency, but also seemingly able to capture more detail
>>> based on double the number of samples.  Or maybe I should say capture the
>>> detail with greater accuracy.
>>>
>>> Since we routinely make hi-def dubs (at least 96/24) from analog master
>>> tapes these days that can sound really great, I have to wonder if, all
>>> else
>>> being equal, those results will outshine an original digital recording
>>> made
>>> at only 48 kHz.
>>>
>>> I am another one who has never felt that your average DGG orchestral
>>> recording captured a lot of the sheer excitement of the sound of a great
>>> symphony orchestra.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> John
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Apr 4, 2015 at 8:21 PM, Tom Fine <[log in to unmask]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>  Hi Mark:
>>>>
>>>> So from what you're saying, I gather that the maximum resolution of that
>>>> Boulez/CSO master would be 48/24?
>>>>
>>>> -- Tom Fine
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Donahue" <
>>>> [log in to unmask]
>>>> >
>>>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>>> Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2015 6:13 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] SACD "surprise"
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  On Sat, Apr 4, 2015 at 10:31 AM, Tom Fine <[log in to unmask]
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>  I can't recall if it was Yamaha or Studer digital consoles, but I
>>>>> think
>>>>>
>>>>>> you are correct in your descriptions of "4D". being a true DDD system
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> that the last time anything was analog was when the mic plugged into
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> console and the mic preamp went to a ADC.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Tom,
>>>>> The DG 4D system was comprised of a stagebox containing custom remote
>>>>> mic
>>>>> preamps and Yamaha converters that connected digitally at 24
>>>>> bits/44.1/48k
>>>>> to an RTW bit splitter that allowed them to record 24 bit 16 track on a
>>>>> Sony3324. The signal was also distributed to the input of a pair of
>>>>> Yamaha
>>>>> DMC-1000 digital consoles.  The normal orchestral kit that I would see
>>>>> here
>>>>> in the states was a pair or three stage boxes with a pair of machines
>>>>> for
>>>>> 32 track recording. It was basically modular and could be scaled for
>>>>> the
>>>>> job.
>>>>> All the best,
>>>>> -mark
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>
>>

Top of Message | Previous Page | Permalink

Advanced Options


Options

Log In

Log In

Get Password

Get Password


Search Archives

Search Archives


Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Subscribe or Unsubscribe


Archives

March 2024
February 2024
January 2024
December 2023
November 2023
October 2023
September 2023
August 2023
July 2023
June 2023
May 2023
April 2023
March 2023
February 2023
January 2023
December 2022
November 2022
October 2022
September 2022
August 2022
July 2022
June 2022
May 2022
April 2022
March 2022
February 2022
January 2022
December 2021
November 2021
October 2021
September 2021
August 2021
July 2021
June 2021
May 2021
April 2021
March 2021
February 2021
January 2021
December 2020
November 2020
October 2020
September 2020
August 2020
July 2020
June 2020
May 2020
April 2020
March 2020
February 2020
January 2020
December 2019
November 2019
October 2019
September 2019
August 2019
July 2019
June 2019
May 2019
April 2019
March 2019
February 2019
January 2019
December 2018
November 2018
October 2018
September 2018
August 2018
July 2018
June 2018
May 2018
April 2018
March 2018
February 2018
January 2018
December 2017
November 2017
October 2017
September 2017
August 2017
July 2017
June 2017
May 2017
April 2017
March 2017
February 2017
January 2017
December 2016
November 2016
October 2016
September 2016
August 2016
July 2016
June 2016
May 2016
April 2016
March 2016
February 2016
January 2016
December 2015
November 2015
October 2015
September 2015
August 2015
July 2015
June 2015
May 2015
April 2015
March 2015
February 2015
January 2015
December 2014
November 2014
October 2014
September 2014
August 2014
July 2014
June 2014
May 2014
April 2014
March 2014
February 2014
January 2014
December 2013
November 2013
October 2013
September 2013
August 2013
July 2013
June 2013
May 2013
April 2013
March 2013
February 2013
January 2013
December 2012
November 2012
October 2012
September 2012
August 2012
July 2012
June 2012
May 2012
April 2012
March 2012
February 2012
January 2012
December 2011
November 2011
October 2011
September 2011
August 2011
July 2011
June 2011
May 2011
April 2011
March 2011
February 2011
January 2011
December 2010
November 2010
October 2010
September 2010
August 2010
July 2010
June 2010
May 2010
April 2010
March 2010
February 2010
January 2010
December 2009
November 2009
October 2009
September 2009
August 2009
July 2009
June 2009
May 2009
April 2009
March 2009
February 2009
January 2009
December 2008
November 2008
October 2008
September 2008
August 2008
July 2008
June 2008
May 2008
April 2008
March 2008
February 2008
January 2008
December 2007
November 2007
October 2007
September 2007
August 2007
July 2007
June 2007
May 2007
April 2007
March 2007
February 2007
January 2007
December 2006
November 2006
October 2006
September 2006
August 2006
July 2006
June 2006
May 2006
April 2006
March 2006
February 2006
January 2006
December 2005
November 2005
October 2005
September 2005
August 2005
July 2005
June 2005
May 2005
April 2005
March 2005
February 2005
January 2005
December 2004
November 2004
October 2004
September 2004
August 2004
July 2004
June 2004
May 2004
April 2004
March 2004
February 2004
January 2004
December 2003
November 2003
October 2003
September 2003
August 2003
July 2003
June 2003
May 2003
April 2003
March 2003
February 2003
January 2003

ATOM RSS1 RSS2



LISTSERV.LOC.GOV

CataList Email List Search Powered by the LISTSERV Email List Manager