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ARSCLIST  September 2015

ARSCLIST September 2015

Subject:

Re: Chandos CD ALERT

From:

Tom Fine <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Wed, 30 Sep 2015 05:54:21 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (243 lines)

I've only seen the spongy kind in CD boxes. I call it "foam rubber," and would describe it as a thin 
sheet of what used to be used to pack delicate equipment in travel cases. The kind used in travel 
cases is usually black or gray colored, whereas the kind used in CD boxes was usually white or 
yellow-ish white. I haven't seen foam rubber used in CD packaging for years, maybe 10+ years. Almost 
no one uses 2-, 3- and 4-CD jewel cases anymore. I don't think most plants offer that option 
nowadays. 2CD is generally the slim-case variety, which is a varient of a single-CD jewel case. 
Many-CD sets generally use cardboard or paper sleeves, or insert the CDs into flaps in a book (which 
often results in scratches).

Hard-learned lesson on the cardboard slip-sleeves -- make sure the TOP (writing-printed side) of the 
CD is against the sleeve's seams. Do not put the BOTTOM (data side) against the seams, as sometimes 
there is excess glue or ink or other things that leave marks on the disc. Often, the discs arrive 
from the factory with the bottom against the seams, so flip them over when you get them.

One other note about CDs -- the spray cleaner/cleaning cloth sold by Sleeve City is very good. I've 
bought yard-sale CDs with both wet-basement marks and fingerprints that cleaned up just fine and 
play A-OK. The only kind of damage that I've found absolutely kills a CD is too large or too deep a 
horizontal or circular scratch, because it damages too many adjoining pits and lands and therefore 
creates unrecoverable errors and dropouts in the data. Stuff like fingerprints, mold, water stains, 
goo from food or lord knows what else, can be cleaned off and, as long as the plastic is not 
scratched in the fatal manner described, the discs tend to be playable in most CD players and 
definitely rip-able in something like a Plextor optical drive. On that topic, I've had cases where, 
with a scratched but not fatally scratched CD, I can recover some of the tracks with the LG drive 
built into my computer and the rest of the tracks from my external Plextor CD/DVD drive. This is 
using dBPowerAmp's CD ripper with Accurip verification. I've had LOTS of experience with this kind 
of thing because I've ripped most of my CDs to FLAC files on my networked music server.

-- Tom Fine

-- Tom Fine

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dave Burnham" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2015 12:57 AM
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Chandos CD ALERT


I would say they are spongy. The ones that are troublesome seem to be a darker orange colour, the 
whiter ones don't seem to be deteriorating yet.

db

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 29, 2015, at 7:19 PM, John Schroth <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> Hi Tom -
>
> Agreed - But the exercise is interesting. If the CD is not on the endangered species list, there 
> will be others in the future with the same issue, that are.
>
> Another thought came to mind. Are these foam inserts (I myself have never seen one) spongy type 
> foam or styrene type foam? Styrene foam dissolves with simple unleaded gas. This might be another 
> chemical to try.
>
> A lot of this experimentation depends on how the foam has effected the polycarbonate CD base. Has 
> it just dissolved and the dissolved layer is just stuck to the polycarbonate CD base layer or has 
> it dissolved INTO the polycarbonate CD base layer?
>
> If the latter, a disk resurfacing machine may be the only option if the dissolved portion has not 
> gone too far into the base.
>
> Regards,
>
> John Schroth
> MTS
>
>> On 9/29/2015 6:44 PM, Tom Fine wrote:
>> Hi John:
>>
>> Agree with you all the way.
>>
>> Question for Dave -- is this CD out of print? It might just be easier to buy a new copy on Amazon 
>> or from "new and used" associated sellers. Or borrow it from your library, make a bit-perfect 
>> copy, and be done with it.
>>
>> -- Tom Fine
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Schroth" <[log in to unmask]>
>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>> Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2015 6:02 PM
>> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Chandos CD ALERT
>>
>>
>>> Another great chemical to try is Eucalyptus oil. It is natural and in most cases as good as 
>>> "goo-gone" without the harsh chemicals. I've been using this for years on other types of media 
>>> with great success to remove goo, adhesives, even sharpie markings. Easy to get at a 
>>> health/natural food store and many pharmacies. I don't know what the short-term or long-term 
>>> effect Eucalyptus oil has on CD plastic is though. I'm presently out - otherwise I'd test it on 
>>> a CD for you. My gut feeling is that it would not cloud the CD plastic - at least not right 
>>> away.
>>>
>>> As soon as you do find a way to remove the foam/glue, I'd copy or rip the disk to file be safe.
>>>
>>> I'd like to add a step 4 - NOTE: The following would be a last resort if the only chemical that 
>>> removed the foam, also clouded the CD plastic, and you had no other option.
>>>
>>> Using a straight edge safety razor blade to remove or "shave" off the foam/goo off the surface 
>>> of the CD (like using a straight edge razor at an extreme angle to remove your car's inspection 
>>> sticker). Granted glass is much harder than CD disk plastic. There would likely be resultant 
>>> surface scratches but these can be removed with a good disk surface re-finisher. Not that it 
>>> fits in everyone's budget, but our shop is lucky enough to have an RTI disk resurfacing machine 
>>> and they do a fantastic job on removing even moderate to aggressive scratches and the disk looks 
>>> and plays like new after. I've refinished disks 4-5 times without getting down to the 
>>> photo-sensitive dye layer.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>> John Schroth
>>> MTS
>>>
>>>> On 9/29/2015 5:18 PM, Tom Fine wrote:
>>>> I would say, hot tap water and don't handle the disc too aggressively because you might well 
>>>> warp it. Boiling water, no, at least not with a disc you care about. Maybe boiling water isn't 
>>>> so hot it would warp or melt the plastic, maybe it is. I wouldn't want to find out it is by 
>>>> boiling a disc I cared about!
>>>>
>>>> In thinking about this thread, if I were you I'd try:
>>>>
>>>> 1. hot tap water and gentle pressure on the disc surface, supporting the disc on a flat surface 
>>>> if possible
>>>> and if that doesn't work ...
>>>> 2. isopropynol on something akin to a pelon wipe, appyling as gentle pressure as will remove 
>>>> the goo
>>>> and if that doesn't work ...
>>>> 3. Naptha, same technique as the isopropynol.
>>>>
>>>> Let us know what works, and if isoprop or naptha cloud up the plastic (I don't think they will, 
>>>> but I don't know this for a fact). It would be good to have some actual experience-based 
>>>> knowledge!
>>>>
>>>> -- Tom Fine
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Burnham" <[log in to unmask]>
>>>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2015 5:09 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Chandos CD ALERT
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> How hot are we talking about, hot tap water, tap water too hot to touch, or water heated on a 
>>>> stove? Wouldn't that damage the disc?
>>>>
>>>> db
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>>> On Sep 29, 2015, at 4:44 PM, Tom Fine <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Dave Burnham, I think John makes a good suggestion -- try very hot water first, see how you 
>>>>> do. And please report back if you try it! I'd like to know if water alone will remove the goo.
>>>>>
>>>>> -- Tom Fine
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Schroth" <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2015 4:10 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Chandos CD ALERT
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Interestingly enough - I have a rather large camera collection in my lobby and the 
>>>>>> leatherette finish on some of the 1970's Kodak Camera products (such as the Super 8mm motion 
>>>>>> picture cameras) are also turning to goo.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What about using very hot water to soften and remove the foam from between the CD's? In that 
>>>>>> way one does not stand the risk of clouding the CD surface with a chemical.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> John Schroth
>>>>>> MTS
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 9/29/2015 2:03 PM, Tom Fine wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi Alan:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yes, agree. However, let me report that I just salvaged several Kodak slide carousel trays 
>>>>>>> from the 1980s, and the foam was in good shape. I still threw it out, knowing it would 
>>>>>>> eventually go bad.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I do think the US and European versions of this foam were different "recipes," and that the 
>>>>>>> US version tends to last longer and deteriorate more as a somewhat sticky powder rather than 
>>>>>>> a ruinous gooey ooze. It probably also depends on climate (temp and humidity).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -- Tom Fine
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Lewis" <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2015 1:55 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Chandos CD ALERT
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The same foam warning should be applied to many AV products and  containers:
>>>>>>>>  -  3M 2" videotape cases from the  1960s used a foam gasket that
>>>>>>>> deteriorates.
>>>>>>>>  -  Some Kodak 35mm Carousel slide drum  cardboard boxes had a sheet of
>>>>>>>> foam in them.
>>>>>>>>  -  Some electronic component  packaging and carrying cases were/are
>>>>>>>> foam lined.
>>>>>>>>  -  Some 3M 1" and 2" videotape reels had a  foam lined upper flange.
>>>>>>>> in this case, the problem was not with the  foam but rather with the adhesive
>>>>>>>> that leaked through the foam onto the tape  pack.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Alan Lewis
>>>>>>>> Washington, DC
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In a message dated 9/29/2015 12:41:16 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
>>>>>>>> [log in to unmask] writes:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Last  night I pulled out a Chandos CD set that I had bought in the mid-'80s
>>>>>>>> and was  horrified to see that the foam sheet that was placed between
>>>>>>>> facing CDs was  rotting and adhering to the CDs. This residue seems to be
>>>>>>>> unremovable,  rendering the CDs unplayable. When I got home I checked other Chandos
>>>>>>>> box sets  and found the same problem developing. Strangely I looked at
>>>>>>>> other brands  similarly packaged and there didn't seem to be a problem. However
>>>>>>>> I am now  removing these sheets from ALL such sets.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> db=
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----
>>>>>>> No virus found in this message.
>>>>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>>>>>> Version: 2016.0.7134 / Virus Database: 4431/10726 - Release Date: 09/29/15
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----
>>>> No virus found in this message.
>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>>> Version: 2016.0.7134 / Virus Database: 4431/10727 - Release Date: 09/29/15
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> -----
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 2016.0.7134 / Virus Database: 4431/10727 - Release Date: 09/29/15
>>
>>

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