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Tom,
Here are box.com links for the two images:
https://app.box.com/s/a86fcmc2jafb83fjl4sb6filnvpz5f84
https://app.box.com/s/7g830mxccty0ubhq4y9tepfu1dtxmff2
Dave Lewis
On Sun, Nov 22, 2015 at 7:27 AM, Tom Fine <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> Nola Studios -- as I understand the history, Tommy Nola's father started
> the business, in a part of Carnegie Hall or in the area. The space was
> originally a rehearsal studio, used by dance bands and then swing bands,
> among others. At some point in the disk-recording era, Nola Sr. put in
> recording equipment, and many demos and some commercial recordings were cut
> there. Tommy Nola built Nola Penthouse Studio, maybe in that same part of
> Carnegie Hall. It was definitely in the immediate Carnegie Hall area,
> because it was just down the block from Fine Recording (located in the
> Great Northern Hotel, down 57th Street from Carnegie Hall). When Fine
> Recording was under construction, my father arranged a deal with Tommy Nola
> where he could run sessions at Nola and feed the audio down the block to
> the control room at Fine Recording. I don't know why they didn't just run
> tape at Nola -- Bob Eberenz told me it had something to do with union rules
> -- but in any case, several jazz albums and many TV commercials were made
> this way during the several months it took to restore the Great Northern's
> Ballroom space and build a recording studio in it. My father built a
> control room/mixing/mastering facility in the Great Northern's penthouse
> floor, and the feed from Nola came into that space. Tommy Nola ran a
> successful studio throughout the 60's. A lot of excellent jazz was recorded
> there. His space was distinct because there were big gold-colored drapes
> all around, probably covering windows and also used to kill off standing
> waves. The ceilings were high and the space volume large enough that it
> provided a very nice sound for small-ensemble jazz groups, but some
> larger-group sessions were also held there. Among the albums recorded at
> Nola were the Jazztet albums made in NY, plus solo albums by Art Farmer and
> Benny Golson, also some Roland Kirk albums for Mercury. Jack Tracy,
> Mercury's jazz producer in the 60's, liked working at Nola, and used it
> often. He'd use Fine Recording, A&R or Capitol NYC for larger-group
> sessions. I think Nola transitioned his business more to sound-for-picture
> and other commerical recordings, as did my father (music albums didn't pay
> as well, and ad agencies paid their bills on time as opposed to some record
> companies).
>
> I don't know when Nola moved into Steinway Hall, which is down near 43rd
> Street.
>
> -- Tom Fine
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Haley" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2015 3:42 AM
>
> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Dating a Presto Recording Corp. Transcription Disc
> Label
>
>
> Hi Dave, I know nothing about these records or Nola, but the number
>> PL7-0750 looks like a phone number! The "PL" has to be for "Plaza" (as I
>> recall, that is "7-5"). In the 1950's, we had the two letters as the
>> first
>> two numbers, which were the "exchange," to help us remember the phone
>> numbers. The two "artists" probably put their phone number on the label
>> in
>> case someone fell in love with their song and wanted to contact them. I
>> guess you could always call the number and see who answers ... Or try
>> googling it first, preceded by your choice of area codes. But probably
>> only if you fell in love with the song ...
>>
>> There is an easier way, assuming you wanted to find these guys (I take it
>> Steve Lewis is not a cousin of yours). Look in the ASCAP database for
>> that
>> song title. It might not be there, but it's an idea.
>>
>> Best,
>> John
>>
>> On Sun, Nov 22, 2015 at 12:51 AM, David Lewis <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>
>> Since we're on the subject, I could use similar help with these two. They
>>> arrived as someone used them as packing material for a Homer Rodeheaver
>>> record that I ordered. From the sound and style of the 'music' I would
>>> place them about 1958, but is there something here that can date them
>>> more
>>> definitely?
>>> I had thought that the "1657 Broadway" address given for Nola Recording
>>> Studios -- which moved out of the Steinway Bldg. just last year -- might
>>> be
>>> a clue,
>>> but that is still Steinway Hall where it always was. With the other disc,
>>> does the number "PL-7-0570" mean anything to anyone?
>>>
>>> By the way, the designation "BAD" on the Nola disc certainly fits; it's a
>>> sentimental 50s pop song, with a piano that does not obey the harmony
>>> implied by the
>>> melody line and amateurish sax breaks.
>>>
>>> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B1OUF9sGAJwvSGk1MjRxTGtnX00
>>> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B1OUF9sGAJwvUVpnSjR0TnQzTWM
>>>
>>> best,
>>>
>>> Dave Lewis
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Nov 18, 2015 at 11:30 AM, John Haley <[log in to unmask]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> > That's great, Matthew. That looks like very useful info. Maybe there
>>> is
>>> > some way Jesse could compare what he has (the sound file) to the
>>> > Jackson/Lomax tapes, if they have ever been made available in some
>>> format,
>>> > from which he could make a definite conclusion.
>>> >
>>> > Jesse, the paper labels were always glued on, in my experience, and
>>> they
>>> > often do come off (bits of the one on your disc are still there). I
>>> don't
>>> > know if the paper labels had glue already affixed that just needing
>>> > wetting, but I have always assumed so. We find acetate discs with many
>>> > kinds of paper labels on them, many bearing logos (just look up
>>> > "transcription disc" on Ebay), which is what I was referring to. The
>>> > Presto logo here is embossed into the blank disc that was used. If
>>> what
>>> > Matthew is suggesting were correct, the disc copy could have been made
>>> at
>>> > any point in time after the original recording was made, so dating the
>>> > blank itself would not be very useful. If you knew that the disc
>>> itself
>>> > was a live recording, that would be different, but as Matt suggests, it
>>> may
>>> > be a copy of the original recording.
>>> >
>>> > That is a common disappointment with instantaneous records, when you
>>> think
>>> > you have found something really important, only to discover that what
>>> you
>>> > have is a copy of a recording that is already "out there" and sometimes
>>> > even a commercial recording. You often can't tell that until you have
>>> > dubbed the record and compared it. I recently went thru exactly that
>>> > exercise myself, finding that the rare looking two-sided acetate was
>>> just a
>>> > copy of readily available commercial records. But like I always say,
>>> if
>>> > you don't look, you don't find.
>>> >
>>> > Even if your disc is a copy, that does not mean it is worthless. I
>>> have
>>> > found an instance where the original source had deteriorated to the
>>> extent
>>> > that an old copy of it made way back there was a good thing to have.
>>> >
>>> > Back to your label for a minute, the small clues that can be got from
>>> what
>>> > is left there are two typed word fragments, the first being "dier" and
>>> the
>>> > second being "ulation" or "olation." These match two of the song
>>> titles,
>>> > "Christian Soldier" and "The Church's Desolation," but I am sure you
>>> have
>>> > already figured that out, and this doesn't help.
>>> >
>>> > Good luck with this.
>>> >
>>> > Best,
>>> > John Haley
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On Wed, Nov 18, 2015 at 10:50 AM, Barton, Matthew <[log in to unmask]>
>>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > > Hello Jesse,
>>> > >
>>> > > This disc may have been copied from the field recordings of Sacred
>>> Harp
>>> > > Singers made by George Pullen Jackson and Alan Lomax in the summer of
>>> > 1942
>>> > > in Birmingham, AL. By this time, the Library of Congress had the
>>> means
>>> to
>>> > > make disc copies of original field recordings for artists and the
>>> public.
>>> > > Given that this is an aluminum based-disc, the copy may have been
>>> made
>>> > > after the war, or the Library's sound lab might still have had a
>>> supply
>>> > of
>>> > > aluminum-based lacquers. I checked, and all four of the titles you
>>> > provided
>>> > > were recorded by Jackson and Lomax in Birmingham. One of them,
>>> Christian
>>> > > Solider, was recorded twice with different leaders. As you probably
>>> know,
>>> > > there was an album release of 18 songs from these sessions, but the
>>> > titles
>>> > > you provided are not on it.
>>> > >
>>> > > As you point out, these were popular hymns and all might have been
>>> sung
>>> > at
>>> > > any given Sacred Harp gathering, but I thought I'd put this theory
>>> > forward.
>>> > >
>>> > > I hope this helps.
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > Matthew Barton
>>> > > Library of Congress
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > -----Original Message-----
>>> > > From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List [mailto:
>>> > > [log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Jesse P. Karlsberg
>>> > > Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2015 10:01 AM
>>> > > To: [log in to unmask]
>>> > > Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Dating a Presto Recording Corp. Transcription
>>> > Disc
>>> > > Label
>>> > >
>>> > > Dear Tom, Franz, John, Steve, and others,
>>> > >
>>> > > Thanks to all for sharing insights and resources in response to my
>>> > > question yesterday about dating a Presto transcription disc label. To
>>> > add a
>>> > > bit more information:
>>> > >
>>> > > 1. From examining the disc my impression was that the paper label was
>>> > > home-made and pasted over the Presto logo and has since largely been
>>> torn
>>> > > off. The Presto logo underneath is blue-green and appears to be
>>> stamped
>>> > or
>>> > > printed directly on the acetate.
>>> > > Franz: is that what you're referring to when you mention a "green
>>> stamped
>>> > > Presto," and what leads you to associate such a label with the late
>>> > 1930s?
>>> > > John: what is a "logo label"? In this case it doesn't look like the
>>> label
>>> > > was stuck onto the disc, but rather, that it was printed directly
>>> onto
>>> > the
>>> > > acetate if that's possible.
>>> > > 2. As John speculates, the disc is aluminum and is covered by acetate
>>> or
>>> > > some similar substance. Although the disc is indeed delaminating we
>>> > > fortunately were able to have it digitized by Michael Graves of
>>> Osiris
>>> > > Studio before any serious damage was done to playability.
>>> > > 3. The material on the recording itself doesn't help us date the
>>> item.
>>> > The
>>> > > disc contains four songs sung by a medium-sized group of Sacred Harp
>>> > > singers. The sound is more consistent with a live singing convention
>>> than
>>> > > with a studio setting. For those interested, the songs are "Raymond"
>>> (p.
>>> > > 441 in The Sacred Harp) and "Cowper" (p. 168) on side A and "The
>>> Church's
>>> > > Desolation" (p. 89) and "Christian Soldier" (p. 57) on side B. All
>>> are
>>> > > relatively common songs that have been in active use over the entire
>>> > period
>>> > > when the disc could have been recorded. The person from whom the
>>> Sacred
>>> > > Harp Museum purchased the disc believed that the recording had been
>>> made
>>> > > some time in the 1940s in East Central Alabama but had no specific
>>> > > information.
>>> > >
>>> > > What I am hoping is that others may have encountered identically
>>> designed
>>> > > stamped Presto labels. I recognize that the disc might have sat
>>> around
>>> > for
>>> > > a while before it was used, but am hopeful that if any other such
>>> discs
>>> > > have been dated it might at least help us approximate the earliest
>>> the
>>> > > recording could have been made, and may offer other clues as well.
>>> > >
>>> > > One last question: in the 1940 Presto catalog linked from the
>>> > Preservation
>>> > > Sound blog, the final page in the second file lists various discs for
>>> > sale.
>>> > > (http://www.preservationsound.com/wp-
>>> > > content/uploads/2011/09/Presto_1940_cat_2.pdf) All but one, the
>>> > "monogram"
>>> > > disc, mention a colored seal, yet the monogram disc has a
>>> "composition
>>> > > base." Is the stamped label on the disc in question a "monogram"?
>>> What
>>> > is a
>>> > > composition base?
>>> > > Does anyone have access to earlier or later Presto Recording Corp.
>>> > > catalogs with different listings of available Presto discs?
>>> > >
>>> > > Thanks again for all your help. I appreciate it.
>>> > >
>>> > > Best,
>>> > > Jesse
>>> > >
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
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