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ARSCLIST  November 2015

ARSCLIST November 2015

Subject:

Re: Wibdows 10?

From:

Jamie Howarth <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sun, 29 Nov 2015 13:56:26 -0500

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (323 lines)

All Mac. 5 of them and they never require maintenance. Two are from 2006 - running nonstop other than local power failures since the day they were new. Flash in Safari bogs one of them but I just avoid web browsing while working on that machine. 

Typically ProTools, RX5, Audition and Logic run on the main machine simultaneously - often at varying sampling rates without a hitch. 

There is one old custom demodulation routine that is PC -only that I rarely use, so one frozen in Amber XP machine is online but turned off.
And I'm getting that utility  recompiled for OSX when budget allows.


Please pardon the mispellings and occassional insane word substitution I'm on an iPhone

> On Nov 29, 2015, at 1:45 PM, John Haley <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> 
> Jamie, you are probably doing more intensive computering for Plangent
> Process than most of the rest of us.  What platform are you using?
> 
> Thanks,
> John
> 
> 
>> On Sun, Nov 29, 2015 at 1:34 PM, Jamie Howarth <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> 
>> If my maintaining platform was this labor intensive I'd never get anything
>> done.
>> 
>> Please pardon the mispellings and occassional insane word substitution I'm
>> on an iPhone
>> 
>>> On Nov 29, 2015, at 1:21 PM, John Haley <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>> 
>>> There were good reasons why Windows XP was the big workhorse for
>> Corporate
>>> America for so long, and why Corporate America resisted changing for as
>>> long as it could.  Microsoft had to take extraordinary measures to force
>> XP
>>> to die, murdering its own product to force in the new ones.
>>> 
>>> Best,
>>> John
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Sun, Nov 29, 2015 at 1:16 PM, Tom Fine <[log in to unmask]>
>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Richard's situation is more complex but in some ways similar to mine. I
>>>> run two XP machines, and will continue to for the foreseeable. One is
>> the
>>>> secondary DAW in the studio (formerly the primary DAW). I run XP on that
>>>> because the last reliable/stable/repeatable version of Roxio
>> disc-burning
>>>> software runs on XP. The new version, now owned by a different company,
>> is
>>>> awful, unstable and doesn't do some of its claimed DVD-authoring
>> features.
>>>> I also have an older version of Sony Vegas and Sony's DVD-authoring
>>>> software that runs well on XP and I did not want to fool with trying to
>>>> make it run well on W7. That computer also runs Soundforge 9, the last
>>>> version of Soundforge that seamlessly integrated with Sony's CDArchitect
>>>> software (current versions of Soundforge include a stand-alone version
>> of
>>>> CDArchitect which cannot be accessed and a projected dumped into it
>>>> directly from Soundforge). Finally, that machine has one of the older,
>>>> super-reliable Plextor Pro optical drives in it. That computer
>> continues to
>>>> be very useful for authoring, duplicating, ripping and otherwise working
>>>> with optical media.
>>>> 
>>>> In my home office, the main computer still runs XP. I have a bunch of
>>>> older programs on it, and prefer the older Office interfaces, the older
>>>> Photoshop setup and the older Outlook Express e-mail client. I know I
>> will
>>>> be forced to "upgrade" out of this world one day, but the computer still
>>>> does these tasks plenty fast, so that day is hopefully many months and
>>>> years away.
>>>> 
>>>> Everything else around here runs W7 except that one computer (now the
>>>> primary DAW in the studio), which runs W10. However, as I said, after
>>>> hearing Dave's tales of woe, I might swap back in the W7 drive. As I
>> also
>>>> said, W7-64 is a fast operating environment for the kinds of things I
>> do. I
>>>> don't prefer the W7 user interface to XP. I find things like navigating
>> and
>>>> moving files take more steps or mouse-clicks, and I prefer the "classic"
>>>> folders view. As I said, I was an early adopter of Windows 95, I learned
>>>> quickly how to do things efficiently. By the time of Office 2003, they
>> had
>>>> gotten all those apps running fast and almost always crash-free. So I
>> see
>>>> no need to re-learn any of this since I can do what I need to do very
>>>> quickly and know a bunch of control-key shortcuts. In most ways, XP was
>> an
>>>> ideal system because it brought all the good ideas of the original
>> Windows
>>>> forward, kept things familiar enough, made some things easier and more
>>>> refined, and finally made the old NT-style kernal rock-solid. I
>> understand
>>>> why they needed to do a bunch of things from scratch with Windows 7, but
>>>> they didn't need to redesign the Office interface, definitely didn't
>> need
>>>> to do all the stupid interface chances with Windows 8 and should spend
>> more
>>>> time making sure W7, W8 and W10 are as rock-solid as XP ended up being.
>>>> 
>>>> -- Tom Fine
>>>> 
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard L. Hess" <
>>>> [log in to unmask]>
>>>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>>> Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2015 11:37 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Wibdows 10?
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Hi, John,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Your eagle eye was working...as I stated in the other message, Windows
>> XP
>>>>> is very peripheral to the vast majority of my work. I keep it around
>> for my
>>>>> thermal transfer CD/DVD printer. Although I intended to switch to
>> inkjet
>>>>> printable CDs, I haven't had the need to place an order for the blanks
>>>>> yet...my usage of optical media has gone WAY down. I have been able to
>>>>> convince almost all my software...or find substitutes for it...to run
>> on
>>>>> Windows 10. Remember, I've been running Windows 7 since early 2011,
>> and I
>>>>> found that a far more difficult transition. All but one of the W7 and
>> later
>>>>> machines I'm responsible for have been 64 bit. I was very conservative
>> with
>>>>> one friend who does writing and editing, so her first post-XP machine
>> was
>>>>> W7/32. Her second machine was W8.1/64.
>>>>> We had 10 W7 and and 2 W8.1 machines in our family of four. The
>>>>> Historical Society I do IT work for has 4 W7 and 1 W8.1 machine and
>> then
>>>>> there is the aforementioned friend with two machines. So, that brings
>> me to
>>>>> 18 post XP machines to care for and worry about.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I have actually done 7 of the 12 machines here. My three towers and two
>>>>> laptops and the two oldest (now surplus) machines when the boys each
>> got an
>>>>> 8.1 laptop as their original primary machine had issues. Issues fixed,
>>>>> older backup machines made surplus. One of those updated has the W10
>>>>> install on a HD in a drawer and a new HD with Open SUSE Linux on it
>> just
>>>>> for my amusement...I am easily amused.
>>>>> 
>>>>> To complete the picture, I have three "keeper" XP machines. The
>> original
>>>>> 2003 XP machine I bought is the one doing the printer support in the
>>>>> studio. I have a later machine set up as an audio workstation that has
>> been
>>>>> used for massive optical disk burning projects in the past and also
>> for DAT
>>>>> ingest in the past with a second operator. A third machine is kept as a
>>>>> backup for the one in the studio. I have a crummy machine in a nice
>> case
>>>>> and a nice 2004 laptop that was even too slow for Linux, so it stays
>> XP.
>>>>> Those two machines are heading out the door someday soon. The tower
>>>>> probably to recycling and hopefully someone will take the laptop via
>>>>> Kijiji. I also have an HP 100 LX and HP 200 LX palmtop DOS computers
>> which
>>>>> I rarely use now.
>>>>> 
>>>>> So, since Microsoft is offering free upgrades until July 29, 2016, I
>>>>> thought I should get started soonish.
>> http://windows.microsoft.com/en-ca/windows-10/upgrade-to-windows-10-faq
>>>>> 
>>>>> I first upgraded my "good" laptop (4th gen i5, 8 GB, orig W7 Home
>>>>> Premium) to W10 and was able to use it without a hitch. I researched
>> the
>>>>> drivers for most of my equipment and tried one particularly fussy piece
>>>>> (Nikon Super Coolscan 5000ED/LS5000) on the laptop. All was good.
>>>>> 
>>>>> So, I went ahead and over about a week upgraded the three towers and
>> the
>>>>> workshop laptop. Then I upgraded the two older machines as described
>> above.
>>>>> I was surprised that the little single-core "netbookish" PC ran
>>>>> surprisingly well, but don't ask it to multitask! If you are familiar
>> with
>>>>> the Passmark CPU ratings, the netbookish has a rating about 500 (the
>> same
>>>>> as a Pentium IV 3.2 GHz machine) but the system seems faster (64 vs 32
>>>>> bits?). The HP that became a Linux machine scores about 1400. The boys'
>>>>> newer laptops and mine score around 4000 as does my ingest desktop.
>> The two
>>>>> other desktops score around 6000 and the W8.1 machine at the Historical
>>>>> Society scores over 10,000 and has a boot SSD--it screams. Our other
>>>>> laptops are around 2500.
>>>>> 
>>>>> So with the two spares and my five done, my further deployment will be
>>>>> the boys' pairs over Christmas and my wife's and the five Historical
>>>>> Society machines and my other friend's two in the late winter
>> (Feb-Mar).
>>>>> 
>>>>> It works because we will no longer have the mix of 7 and 8.1 for
>>>>> different users/organizations.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Windows 10 plusses:
>>>>> --boots faster
>>>>> --resolves some driver/hardware/software issues
>>>>> (one remains unresolved on one of two machines)
>>>>> --A superior UI to W8.1 and more like W7 in some respects
>>>>> --Improved UI functionality on many fronts
>>>>> --quite compatible (I Had to install a new driver to get
>>>>> expected results from a 8-9 year old HP laser printer
>>>>> HP had the driver available (HP P2015dn)
>>>>> 
>>>>> Windows 10 minuses:
>>>>> --you actually have to DO IT. Although the upgrade process is
>>>>> automated you still need to go through all the functions and
>>>>> see if anything is not working.
>>>>> --A very few programs will not run. I can't recall anything that
>>>>> needed a paid-for license to run. I do recall buying a few things,
>>>>> but don't remember the reason...think it was "nice to have."
>>>>> --W7 gadgets won't run, but the performance meters are available as
>>>>> part of 8gadgetpak which runs fine on 10. I use a very cut-down
>>>>> version of just the CPU on the netbook.
>>>>> http://8gadgetpack.net/
>>>>> Seems safe http://bit.ly/1NjsMFp
>>>>> I have used the "suite" from Addgadgets.com which are included:
>>>>> All CPU Meter, Drives Meter, Network Meter plus the Microsoft
>>>>> analog clock, also included.
>>>>> 
>>>>> This is one thing I don't have to worry about until 2025 or so and I
>>>>> won't have to spend money or needlessly dispose of machines in 2020
>> due to
>>>>> the cost of upgrade then. I might want to, but most of our machines are
>>>>> pretty competent.
>>>>> 
>>>>> As to Microsoft Office, I have been using Libre Office for a while. It
>> is
>>>>> not perfect, but it's good and is being actively developed. We've been
>>>>> under a bunch of pressure to save money at the Historical Society (for
>> good
>>>>> reasons) and I suggested one way to do that on the three new machines
>> we
>>>>> purchased last year was to use Libre Office instead of Microsoft
>> Office.
>>>>> People are adapting well, from what I hear. Unless the boys require an
>>>>> updated version of MS Office, I don't see a reason to go beyond version
>>>>> 2010.
>>>>> 
>>>>> The replacement for Publisher and Visio is more difficult. The Libre
>>>>> Office Draw is a simple drawing program, not Visio, but can be used for
>>>>> many things. Scribus is a full-featured desktop publishing application
>> and
>>>>> having never been a fan of Publisher, I did a project last year in
>> Scribus
>>>>> that worked fine. I don't do enough DTP to warrant keeping InDesign
>>>>> current. I have old versions (pre-CS) and the free CS2 version, but
>> opted
>>>>> for Scribus the last time I needed to do something to make certain
>> that the
>>>>> licensing was valid. (CS2's licensing is a bit iffy if you haven't
>> bought
>>>>> that version, which I hadn't). I like InDesign CS2 better than Scribus,
>>>>> partially because I learned a bunch of things on InDesign. With that
>> said,
>>>>> Publisher 2003 seems to at least open and load a template on W10.
>>>>> 
>>>>> There are Win 9x programs that were written for various digital
>>>>> multimeters that sometimes ran under XP but balk at 64 bit OSs. I don't
>>>>> have any post-XP 32-bit machines here.
>>>>> 
>>>>> The W7 XP 32 bit virtual machine is gone from Windows 10, although my
>> CD
>>>>> printer software did not run under it. My old version of Visio did,
>> but I
>>>>> stopped using that long ago so I wouldn't create more documents. Libre
>>>>> Office spent a lot of time on importing Visio docs to their draw
>> program
>>>>> and I thank them for that. Not perfect,  but good.
>>>>> 
>>>>> That's all I can think of...think I'll turn this into a blog post.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Richard
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 11/29/2015 9:51 AM, John Haley wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I noticed in the separate string about "laptop upgrade" (really about
>>>>>> external small DAC's), that you, Richard Hess, said you have upgraded
>>>>>> most
>>>>>> of your computers to Windows 10.  I have been hesitating to do that
>>>>>> myself,
>>>>>> simply because things are working now the way they are, using various
>>>>>> other
>>>>>> Windows versions (except XP, which has now unfortunately left the
>>>>>> building
>>>>>> for me, along with some great programs that I lost).  I don't want to
>>>>>> invite trouble, and as we all know, Microsoft is not really our
>> friend.
>>>>>> And I have read somewhere online that Windows 10 has had a bug
>> involving
>>>>>> hi-def audio files.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> But if you are using Windows 10 for audio work, Richard, and all is
>> going
>>>>>> well, maybe I will do the free upgrades to Windows 10 on all my
>>>>>> computers.
>>>>>> Microsoft sure wants me to, with all the constant nagging upgrade
>>>>>> messages.  That in itself is almost a reason not to.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> How has your experience been with Windows 10?  Any problems?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> And others on the list?  Liking it?  Not liking it?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>> John Haley
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> --
>>>>> Richard L. Hess                   email: [log in to unmask]
>>>>> Aurora, Ontario, Canada                             647 479 2800
>>>>> http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm
>>>>> Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes.
>> 

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