Wow, I wonder what makes the tapes go so much more sticky in NZ?

-- Tom Fine

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Scott Phillips" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Friday, January 29, 2016 3:29 PM
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Ampex 456 Grand Master: What To Expect?


Interesting!

For yet another data point, I have a client in Colorado that has several
hundred 2" and perhaps 100 1/4" 456 tapes dating from the late 1970's
through perhaps 1990. None of them have ever gone SSS at all, I've seen the
tapes myself. On the other hand, I worked for years in the Miami Fla. area
and saw plenty of the problem there. Both were constantly in climate
controlled rooms except when removed for use. Storage temperatures were
about 72 degrees F in Miami, more like 62 degrees F in Colorado, with a few
rare dips colder during power failures during the winter. The big standout
difference? The humidity in the case of the Colorado tapes was rarely over
25%, in Miami it was always much higher. These are not the only examples
I've run across like this.

Not saying that is absolutely the reason, but the Humid storage and use
conditions I've personally seen made a world of difference with 456. I will
say I've never had to bake a 2" tape longer than 24 hours anywhere, but I
don't deal with the quantity Marie or Richard do. Having said this, I
haven't needed to repeatedly bake the same tapes over years of time, once a
good transfer was made. I can easily imagine that it is different if
repeated baking and transfer of a particular tape over and over the years
might need longer and longer times, the chemistry of the degradation
marches on....

The discussions on this topic have been most enlightening. There is so much
to do, and the free flow of information and ideas helps us all.

Best Regards,

Scott Phillips

On Fri, Jan 29, 2016 at 1:23 PM, Marie O'Connell <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> I am talking mainly 1/4 inch but also 2 inch Ampex 456.
> Marie
>
> On Sat, Jan 30, 2016 at 6:12 AM, Tom Fine <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
>
> > Are you guys talking about 2" 456? I haven't had this extreme a problem
> > with 1/4" 456 and 406. The one I've had to go 24+ hours with is Scotch
> 227.
> > I just recently did some circa early 1980s 456, two 7" reels. They played
> > just fine and left no residue I could see on the cleaning swabs, with 12
> > hours baking and 12 hours cool-down.
> >
> > -- Tom Fine
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ted Kendall" <
> > [log in to unmask]>
> > To: <[log in to unmask]>
> > Sent: Friday, January 29, 2016 11:12 AM
> >
> > Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Ampex 456 Grand Master: What To Expect?
> >
> >
> > This chimes with my own experience - days are required now where once
> >> hours sufficed.
> >>
> >> About a week is the minimum bake that has had any real effect for some
> >> time now.
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marie O'Connell" <[log in to unmask]
> >
> >> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> >> Sent: Friday, January 29, 2016 5:20 AM
> >> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Ampex 456 Grand Master: What To Expect?
> >>
> >>
> >> Hello
> >>
> >> See Ampex 456, bake Ampex 456, loathe it!  We have hundreds of tapes in
> >> our
> >> collections on this stock, and it continues to come in with the new
> >> accessions.
> >>
> >> I bake them now for about 7 to 14 days at 52C for more success,
> otherwise
> >> I
> >> have to keep putting them back in the oven.  12 hours does nothing
> anymore
> >> and our vaults are humidity/temperature controlled.  The really bad
> ones I
> >> do use a pellon wipe and then, if required, my isopropyl technique (last
> >> resort).  My low friction Studers have eliminated much use of iso.
> >>
> >> Cheers
> >> Marie
> >>
> >> On Fri, Jan 29, 2016 at 11:13 AM, Richard L. Hess <
> >> [log in to unmask]>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi, Steve,
> >>>
> >>> The Ampex patent has in its claims both 50 and 54 °C. That was where
> the
> >>> higher temperature came from. It is still well below the Tg of the base
> >>> film. (67 - 81 °C) (
> >>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyethylene_terephthalate)
> >>>
> >>> Ampex patent here:
> >>> http://www.richardhess.net/restoration_notes/USP5236790.pdf
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 1/28/2016 4:10 PM, Steve Greene wrote:
> >>>
> >>> I used to bake 15" quad reels with a high degree of success at 120F for
> >>>> 24
> >>>> hours, with a long ramp down time of another 24 hours before handling
> >>>> it.
> >>>> Knowing what I know now, I might go as high as 125F. 54C (130F) seems
> >>>> high
> >>>> to me.
> >>>>
> >>>> Steve
> >>>>
> >>>> Steve Greene
> >>>> Audiovisual Archivist
> >>>> Nixon Presidential Library and Museum
> >>>> National Archives and Records Administration
> >>>> (301) 837-1772
> >>>>
> >>>> On Wed, Jan 27, 2016 at 8:38 PM, Corey Bailey <
> [log in to unmask]>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Hi David,
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> My experience with baking 2" tapes comes from my experiences at
> Warner
> >>>>> Bros. Studios, Burbank, CA. As Richard Hess said: "456 is the poster
> >>>>> child
> >>>>> for SSS" so, don't ask, just bake it.! Regarding the question of how
> >>>>> long
> >>>>> to bake is dependent on the size and type of oven, the number of
> tapes
> >>>>> to
> >>>>> be baked at one time and (obviously) the condition of the tapes
> >>>>> themselves.
> >>>>> The oven at WB is commercial grade, capable of baking 34, 10.5" reels
> >>>>> at
> >>>>> a
> >>>>> time. I've baked as few as two reels on up to an oven full. For two
> >>>>> reels
> >>>>> of 2", the average baking time is 18 - 24 hours. I would suggest that
> >>>>> you
> >>>>> only bake as many tapes as you can process in a day so that the
> >>>>> stabilization process is as fresh as possible. You mentioned leader
> >>>>> breaks.
> >>>>> Expect any splices to have to be replaced after baking. Not always
> the
> >>>>> case
> >>>>> but, build the labor cost into your budget.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Cheers!
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Corey
> >>>>> Corey Bailey Audio Engineering
> >>>>> www.baileyzone.net
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On 1/27/2016 8:29 AM, David Crosthwait wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Hello Tom and Richard,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> In my digging through a church archive yesterday with new clients,
> we
> >>>>>> uncovered many reels of 24 track on 2" among other audio tapes. One
> >>>>>> tape of
> >>>>>> interest I have with me, destined to a comrade here in town who is
> as
> >>>>>> passionate about vintage audiotape recovery as we are with
> videotape,
> >>>>>> is a
> >>>>>> 24 track on "Ampex Grand Master" 456 from 1988 in a cardboard box.
> It
> >>>>>> has
> >>>>>> track assignments within. The tape has leader breaks. In a test of
> >>>>>> sorts,
> >>>>>> we are going to link this up with a 1" C of the concert (same
> >>>>>> production,
> >>>>>> same date) to create a new stereo mixed version. I've done this
> before
> >>>>>> so I
> >>>>>> am familiar with the routine. The question to you two (and others)
> is:
> >>>>>> What
> >>>>>> should we expect from a stickiness standpoint (if any) from 1988
> >>>>>> vintage
> >>>>>> "Grand Master" 456?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> The client has multiple reels of this concert so this is a test of
> >>>>>> sorts.
> >>>>>> The 24 track will create a ProTools session for the mix down and new
> >>>>>> stereo
> >>>>>> imaging (5.1?), to be done at the client's facility. I'm going to be
> >>>>>> remastering the 1" C today to file (it too is in stereo albeit with
> >>>>>> weak
> >>>>>> L-R imaging as viewed on the phase scope). It's a full orchestra
> with
> >>>>>> choir.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Thank you.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Best Regards,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> David Crosthwait
> >>>>>> DC Video
> >>>>>> Transferring NTSC, PAL&  SECAM Two Inch Quad and Helical Source
> Tapes
> >>>>>> (and More)!
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> http://www.dcvideo.com/what-we-do
> >>>>>> [log in to unmask]
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> www.dcvideo.com
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Follow DC Video on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/dcvideo
> >>>>>> Follow DC Video on YouTube:
> http://www.youtube.com/user/dcvideoonline
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> --
> >>>>
> >>> Richard L. Hess                   email: [log in to unmask]
> >>> Aurora, Ontario, Canada                             647 479 2800
> >>> http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm
> >>> Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
>