LISTSERV mailing list manager LISTSERV 16.0

Help for ARSCLIST Archives


ARSCLIST Archives

ARSCLIST Archives


ARSCLIST@LISTSERV.LOC.GOV


View:

Message:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Topic:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Author:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

Font:

Proportional Font

LISTSERV Archives

LISTSERV Archives

ARSCLIST Home

ARSCLIST Home

ARSCLIST  January 2016

ARSCLIST January 2016

Subject:

Re: Cleaning stylus

From:

Tom Fine <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Thu, 14 Jan 2016 21:18:42 -0500

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (104 lines)

Hi Duane,

Personal attacks won't prove your point. But they do say a lot about you, and how secure you feel 
about your arguments.

To keep it on a professional level, it would be helpful to the craft, and to your customers, to 
offer some scientific proof that wiping with a cloth will clean out a groove as well as vacuuming. 
And, for that matter, it would be interesting to compare imagery of actual grooves before and after 
with the different fluids. You put a lot of stake in an advertising position that your fluid is 
superior to all others, but as yet you have not shown any sort of side-by-side scientific proof of 
your ad claims. I'm not saying any of your claims are wrong, I'm just saying they are unproven. Why 
not spare the personal vitriol and concentrate on proving your claims? And by the way, if you did 
provide scientific proof, that would be the best advertising in the world, bar none. And it would 
make for a heck an ARSC Journal article!

I don't think cleaning effectiveness is a matter of opinion or subjective "listening tests" or 
customer testimonials. It's simple -- make detailed images of dirty records, then maybe clean one 
side your way and one side with a vacuum machine, take images of cleaned records, see which one has 
less dirt left over (maybe they both clean up the same, the proof will be there in black and white). 
Same with fluids, images before and after, perhaps use different fluids on different sides of the 
same dirty record. Also test for removing mold, mud, etc, perhaps come up with a protocol to make a 
throw-away record worst-case filthy for testing. As long as you're willing to spare the personal 
attacks, I'm happy to work with you to come up with a testing regime and see if we can enlist the 
help of someone with proper imaging machinery. As a user of grooved disks, I'm really interested in 
the outcome of scientific testing.

-- Tom Fine

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "H D Goldman" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 8:45 PM
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Cleaning stylus


Tom,

And just what correlations exist to compare such images?  Even if you had such correlations, how 
many images would be required & at what cost?  You welcome to continue to take shots at products you’re 
only willing to try if someone gives them to you.  I stopped doing that nearly 20 years ago.

Archives, major collections & 1,000s of individuals have all been fooled.  Somehow I’d bet you’d be 
the 1st person with a decent mid-fi system or better that could not hear the merits of this level of 
cleaning.  I’ll make no more remarks on this thread.

Regards,

Duane Goldman

H D Goldman Lagniappe Chemicals Ltd.
PO Box 37066 St. Louis, MO 63141 USA
v/f 314 205 1388  [log in to unmask]





> On Jan 14, 2016, at 7:24 PM, Tom Fine <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> Duane, can you back that up with some science? Scanning microscope photos of the grooves? With all 
> due respect, "repeatedly demonstrated by users" isn't scientific proof. I just don't believe that 
> you can "manually" remove the fluid and grime as well as vacuuming. That said, I do not have a 
> scanning microscope to prove my point.
>
> -- Tom Fine
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "H D Goldman" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 8:07 PM
> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Cleaning stylus
>
>
> Tom,
>
> It has been repeatedly demonstrated by users over the past 25 years, that with adequately designed 
> applicators, carefully formulated cleaning solutions, & useful instructions that there is not 
> difference in the playback of a properly cleaning phonograph record regardless of whether manual & 
> vacuum-assisted fluid removal was employed.
>
> Regards,
>
> Duane Goldman
>
> H D Goldman Lagniappe Chemicals Ltd.
> PO Box 37066 St. Louis, MO 63141 USA
> v/f 314 205 1388  [log in to unmask]
>
>
>
>
>
>> On Jan 14, 2016, at 6:19 PM, Tom Fine <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>
>> By the way, I am NOT a fan of the Discwasher or similar "record cleaning brushes." They just 
>> don't clean out the grooves, in my experience. Only a wet cleaner with vacuum finish like a VPI 
>> or similar really cleans out the grooves. There is now an ultrasonic wet cleaning machine that 
>> the audiophile mags have raved about. I'd want to see some science (ie scanning microscope 
>> photos) to prove that it really cleans out a groove better than a VPI. The exception might be 
>> caked on grime, it's very possible that ultrasonic would blast out the grime whereas a brush and 
>> vacuum wouldn't. But this is not something typically found in cleaning LPs, I say that having 
>> cleaned thousands of LPs over the years.
>>
>> -- Tom Fine

Top of Message | Previous Page | Permalink

Advanced Options


Options

Log In

Log In

Get Password

Get Password


Search Archives

Search Archives


Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Subscribe or Unsubscribe


Archives

December 2020
November 2020
October 2020
September 2020
August 2020
July 2020
June 2020
May 2020
April 2020
March 2020
February 2020
January 2020
December 2019
November 2019
October 2019
September 2019
August 2019
July 2019
June 2019
May 2019
April 2019
March 2019
February 2019
January 2019
December 2018
November 2018
October 2018
September 2018
August 2018
July 2018
June 2018
May 2018
April 2018
March 2018
February 2018
January 2018
December 2017
November 2017
October 2017
September 2017
August 2017
July 2017
June 2017
May 2017
April 2017
March 2017
February 2017
January 2017
December 2016
November 2016
October 2016
September 2016
August 2016
July 2016
June 2016
May 2016
April 2016
March 2016
February 2016
January 2016
December 2015
November 2015
October 2015
September 2015
August 2015
July 2015
June 2015
May 2015
April 2015
March 2015
February 2015
January 2015
December 2014
November 2014
October 2014
September 2014
August 2014
July 2014
June 2014
May 2014
April 2014
March 2014
February 2014
January 2014
December 2013
November 2013
October 2013
September 2013
August 2013
July 2013
June 2013
May 2013
April 2013
March 2013
February 2013
January 2013
December 2012
November 2012
October 2012
September 2012
August 2012
July 2012
June 2012
May 2012
April 2012
March 2012
February 2012
January 2012
December 2011
November 2011
October 2011
September 2011
August 2011
July 2011
June 2011
May 2011
April 2011
March 2011
February 2011
January 2011
December 2010
November 2010
October 2010
September 2010
August 2010
July 2010
June 2010
May 2010
April 2010
March 2010
February 2010
January 2010
December 2009
November 2009
October 2009
September 2009
August 2009
July 2009
June 2009
May 2009
April 2009
March 2009
February 2009
January 2009
December 2008
November 2008
October 2008
September 2008
August 2008
July 2008
June 2008
May 2008
April 2008
March 2008
February 2008
January 2008
December 2007
November 2007
October 2007
September 2007
August 2007
July 2007
June 2007
May 2007
April 2007
March 2007
February 2007
January 2007
December 2006
November 2006
October 2006
September 2006
August 2006
July 2006
June 2006
May 2006
April 2006
March 2006
February 2006
January 2006
December 2005
November 2005
October 2005
September 2005
August 2005
July 2005
June 2005
May 2005
April 2005
March 2005
February 2005
January 2005
December 2004
November 2004
October 2004
September 2004
August 2004
July 2004
June 2004
May 2004
April 2004
March 2004
February 2004
January 2004
December 2003
November 2003
October 2003
September 2003
August 2003
July 2003
June 2003
May 2003
April 2003
March 2003
February 2003
January 2003

ATOM RSS1 RSS2



LISTSERV.LOC.GOV

CataList Email List Search Powered by the LISTSERV Email List Manager