I thought I might throw out a thought here...
I have appreciated Tom's posts and input in the past. I appreciate
Duane's input as well (and have used his product for years). Frankly I
appreciate hearing from anyone who has valid suggestions and ideas -
that's why I follow list-serves like ARSC, AMIA, etc. There's always
something to learn here and something to take away from a thread.
I think both methods have valid points. I think the post was started by
someone who was looking for an inexpensive method to clean disk
recordings. In this context, Duane had valid input that was relevant to
the original posters question. Tom suggested another avenue to consider,
though it may have been outside of the original posters budget but still
if they had not heard of a VPI machine, it would at least be good to
know about it.
I also believe that the more familiar (experience) you have with a
particular methodology, the better you have become at it and there is no
substitute for experience and confidence you have in that method. One of
my best friends is a professional bass fisherman. We spent a day last
summer fishing together. He was yanking in one bass after another with a
particular lure and fishing method I had never tried. I switched to his
lure and method and didn't catch one fish for almost two hours. Finally
I switched back to the lure I liked using and immediately began catching
fish again. My friend smiled and said - it's not just the lure, it's the
experience and confidence you have in it that plays an important part in
I recon Duane could clean a disk better by hand than I could with a VPI
machine because I've never used a VPI machine. I recon Tom could clean a
disk better with a VPI machine than I could by hand because I seldom
clean a disk by hand from front to end. Both are valid methods. Neither
poster here is wrong depending on what you like and what your budget is.
I'd like to use a term I find myself using with my wife from time to
time. Can we agree to disagree??
On 1/17/2016 3:18 PM, David Crosthwait wrote:
> Hello Duane,
> I have learned a lot from your intelligent posts about this subject and I appreciate your insight, gained from years of experience. Keep up the good work!
> Ignore the unfortunate remarks from the "expert". Contrary to his suggestion to leave, continue unabated to contribute.
> David Crosthwait
> DC Video
> Transferring NTSC, PAL & SECAM Two Inch Quad and Helical Source Tapes (and More)!
> [log in to unmask]
> Follow DC Video on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/dcvideo
> Follow DC Video on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/user/dcvideoonline
> On Jan 14, 2016, at 8:25 PM, Shai Drori wrote:
>> If this is your level of remarks then by all means leave and as far as I am
>> concerned don't bother to return. I find your attack on Tom ill mannered
>> and unprovoked. I like this forum because it has many different views. You
>> do not have to like all of them, I certainly don't, but you have to respect
>> others on this list. You like your product, you think it is a great one?
>> Okay, be prepared to back your claims with facts. I like my brush because I
>> see the dirt it pulls out of the stylus. If someone else has a better
>> gizmo, AFAIC great, better knowledge to spread around.
>> Okay, turning off the heat and back to our normal program already in
>> Shai Drori
>> Expert digitization services for Audio Video
>> Hi Res scanning for film 8mm-35mm
>> [log in to unmask]
>> On Fri, Jan 15, 2016 at 3:45 AM, H D Goldman <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>> And just what correlations exist to compare such images? Even if you had
>>> such correlations, how many images would be required & at what cost? You
>>> welcome to continue to take shots at products you’re only willing to try if
>>> someone gives them to you. I stopped doing that nearly 20 years ago.
>>> Archives, major collections & 1,000s of individuals have all been fooled.
>>> Somehow I’d bet you’d be the 1st person with a decent mid-fi system or
>>> better that could not hear the merits of this level of cleaning. I’ll make
>>> no more remarks on this thread.
>>> Duane Goldman
>>> H D Goldman Lagniappe Chemicals Ltd.
>>> PO Box 37066 St. Louis, MO 63141 USA
>>> v/f 314 205 1388 [log in to unmask]
>>>> On Jan 14, 2016, at 7:24 PM, Tom Fine <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>> Duane, can you back that up with some science? Scanning microscope
>>> photos of the grooves? With all due respect, "repeatedly demonstrated by
>>> users" isn't scientific proof. I just don't believe that you can "manually"
>>> remove the fluid and grime as well as vacuuming. That said, I do not have a
>>> scanning microscope to prove my point.
>>>> -- Tom Fine
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "H D Goldman" <[log in to unmask]>
>>>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>>> Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 8:07 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Cleaning stylus
>>>> It has been repeatedly demonstrated by users over the past 25 years,
>>> that with adequately designed applicators, carefully formulated cleaning
>>> solutions, & useful instructions that there is not difference in the
>>> playback of a properly cleaning phonograph record regardless of whether
>>> manual & vacuum-assisted fluid removal was employed.
>>>> Duane Goldman
>>>> H D Goldman Lagniappe Chemicals Ltd.
>>>> PO Box 37066 St. Louis, MO 63141 USA
>>>> v/f 314 205 1388 [log in to unmask]
>>>>> On Jan 14, 2016, at 6:19 PM, Tom Fine <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>> By the way, I am NOT a fan of the Discwasher or similar "record
>>> cleaning brushes." They just don't clean out the grooves, in my experience.
>>> Only a wet cleaner with vacuum finish like a VPI or similar really cleans
>>> out the grooves. There is now an ultrasonic wet cleaning machine that the
>>> audiophile mags have raved about. I'd want to see some science (ie scanning
>>> microscope photos) to prove that it really cleans out a groove better than
>>> a VPI. The exception might be caked on grime, it's very possible that
>>> ultrasonic would blast out the grime whereas a brush and vacuum wouldn't.
>>> But this is not something typically found in cleaning LPs, I say that
>>> having cleaned thousands of LPs over the years.
>>>>> -- Tom Fine
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