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ARSCLIST  April 2016

ARSCLIST April 2016

Subject:

Re: When 78.25?

From:

Tom Fine <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sun, 10 Apr 2016 17:48:54 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (189 lines)

Thanks for clearing up two things, Dennis!

By the time I was in college, there was local steam heat generated at a central wood chip burning 
plant, but electricity was from the grid. I don't think too many colleges were self-generating 
electricity by the 1980s.

Northrop Auditorium -- a challenging recording venue back in the day.

-- Tom Fine

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dennis Rooney" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2016 5:18 PM
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] When 78.25?


> ARC had high technical standards regardless of on which label the recording
> was finally released (sometimes more than one). Portable lathes came into
> use by the mid thirties and the product was robust enough to withstand
> location conditions (*au fond*, the AC problems the Mercury crew
> experienced were due to the fact that AC to Northrop Auditorium, like the
> entire U of M campus, was supplied by the University's own power plant,
> whose output doubtless varied more than Northern States Power Company, the
> area's largest utility, which lighted the Twin Cities).
>
> DDR
>
> On Sun, Apr 10, 2016 at 1:04 PM, Tom Fine <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>> Dennis, I wasn't talking about higher-budget classical sessions by RCA or
>> EMI. What about recording field trips by the ARC labels and smaller
>> outfits, the blues/hillbilly/regional material? I thought they tended to
>> use stuff like Presto AC-motor lathes for that kind of work.
>>
>> -- Tom Fine
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dennis Rooney" <
>> [log in to unmask]>
>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>> Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2016 12:53 PM
>> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] When 78.25?
>>
>>
>> The use of weight-driven lathes was commonplace in the commercial record
>>> industry and the major labels brought a road man to set up and pack up
>>> such
>>> equipment for location jobs. Portable lathes frequently ran on lead-acid
>>> batteries for use where electric service either didn't exist or was of
>>> variable frequency. Puck-driven recording equipment was usually for
>>> consumer use.
>>>
>>> DDR
>>>
>>> On Sat, Apr 9, 2016 at 11:30 PM, Dave Burnham <[log in to unmask]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> RCA made series of recordings with the Toronto Symphony in March of 1942,
>>>> and their turntables used a cuckoo clock type of drive.
>>>>
>>>> db
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> > On Apr 9, 2016, at 9:18 PM, Tom Fine <[log in to unmask]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > I'm not sure that you can rely on a specific speed from the portable
>>>> recording rigs used in the US, at least the ones that ran on electricity.
>>>> The power-line frequency was not reliable in many parts of this country
>>>> back then. I can tell you for a fact that it was not reliable in the
>>>> Midwest in the 1950's (particularly in the Minneapolis area), based on
>>>> actual experiences by the Mercury recording team. Dave, I would be the
>>>> kind
>>>> of 78's that you like, and I like too, could well have been recorded in
>>>> situations where an AC motor could well be running faster or slower than
>>>> 78RPM when referenced to an accurate 60hz power frequency. If I remember
>>>> correctly, I think I read somewhere that EMI had a portable recording rig
>>>> that didn't run on electricity but rather used a clock-like mechanism
>>>> driven by counterweights and chains. I would think, as long as that was
>>>> properly maintain, that it would keep reliable speed. The various
>>>> mechanical ratios would then determine that speed (was it 78RPM exact or
>>>> something different?).
>>>> >
>>>> > Again looking at portable recorders of the 1930's and 1940's, some were
>>>> puck-driven. These could easily be off-speed depending on the wear of the
>>>> puck, how well-maintained the thing is, etc.
>>>> >
>>>> > It seems like a good idea to verify pitch with a modern digital tuner
>>>> when playing back a 78, especially if one is very pitch-sensitive.
>>>> >
>>>> > -- Tom Fine
>>>> >
>>>> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Lewis" <[log in to unmask]>
>>>> > To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>>> > Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2016 10:27 AM
>>>> > Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] When 78.25?
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >> At the risk of passing on an urban myth, as I cannot remember where I
>>>> read
>>>> >> it, what I understood was when Bell Labs' engineers decided that
>>>> >> 33.3 rpm was going to be the speed for Vitaphone discs that 78 rpm was
>>>> >> calculated upward from that. If so, it didn't take right away -- I
>>>> have
>>>> >> 78s from 1929 that still sound pretty fast at 78 rpm. And of course
>>>> the
>>>> >> Edison LPs from that time run at 30 rpm, so they were totally out of
>>>> the
>>>> >> loop.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> best,
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Dave Lewis
>>>> >>
>>>> >> On Fri, Apr 8, 2016 at 4:46 PM, Richard L. Hess <
>>>> [log in to unmask]>
>>>> >> wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> Strobe discs do not work very well with incandescent lighting as the
>>>> >>> heated filament doesn't have time to significantly cool off during
>>>> the
>>>> >>> lower voltage levels of the power sine wave. You don't see 60 Hz
>>>> lamps
>>>> >>> flickering much. Get to 30/25/20 Hz (I forget which) as used in parts
>>>> of
>>>> >>> the NYC subway system back in the 1960s, you could see flickering.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Generally, a neon lamp and possibly a fluorescent lamp could be used
>>>> >>> (however, many fluorescent lamp phosphors have longer decay times so
>>>> that
>>>> >>> they will not flicker). LEDs without filtering would work well today.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Cheers,
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Richard
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>> On 4/8/2016 8:24 AM, Michael Shoshani wrote:
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> I believe the speed was standardized when stroboscopic discs came
>>>> into
>>>> >>>> general use. You can put an evenly-divided number of radial stripes
>>>> on a
>>>> >>>> disc that will work out to 78.26 RPM with an incandescent (or other
>>>> >>>> intermittent) light source at 60 Hz, and 77.94 RPM at 50 Hz. (The
>>>> latter
>>>> >>>> is
>>>> >>>> a different striping, btw. 50 and 60 Hz discs are not the same.)
>>>> This
>>>> >>>> became generally known as "78" in the trade and to the public, even
>>>> though
>>>> >>>> American records were made at a speed fractionally faster than their
>>>> >>>> British counterparts.
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> Michael Shoshani
>>>> >>>> Chicago
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> --
>>>> >>> Richard L. Hess                   email: [log in to unmask]
>>>> >>> Aurora, Ontario, Canada                             647 479 2800
>>>> >>> http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm
>>>> >>> Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes.
>>>> >>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> 1006 Langer Way
>>> Delray Beach, FL 33483
>>> 212.874.9626
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
> -- 
> 1006 Langer Way
> Delray Beach, FL 33483
> 212.874.9626
>
> 

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