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ARSCLIST  August 2016

ARSCLIST August 2016

Subject:

Re: Please give me reasons to keep Classical vinyl!!!!!

From:

Ellis Burman <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Wed, 31 Aug 2016 18:33:20 -0700

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

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text/plain (118 lines)

Maybe "warm ambience" = turntable rumble?

Ellis

On Tue, Aug 30, 2016 at 1:02 PM, DAVID BURNHAM <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> Hi Clark et al
> Thank you for your response!  I hope you're still in the vicinity to hear
> my response, (I've been away from the internet for a few days).
> I also have to disagree on both counts, my first statement is NOT a mere
> assertion, (see below), and the second IS true.  I don't know what your
> background is, I worked for CBC radio music for almost 40 years.  During
> that time I had many vinyl enthusiasts declaring that vinyl was superior to
> CD for the reasons expressed previously; so I undertook an experiment - a
> blind test, (not double blind since I obviously knew what they were
> listening to).  I was in a CBC studio and had a few vinyl enthusiasts to
> listen to comparisons.  Unknown to them, I WASN'T comparing LPs to CDs, but
> LPs to their master tapes; since these were my own recordings I had access
> to the master analog tapes.  The material I used included a Beethoven
> String Quartet, a Mozart Wind Serenade, a Choral work and a World famous
> soprano soloist.  In the case of the last example, a concert was recorded
> and subsequently, permission was received to release it on LP.  So in this
> case, the original first generation master tape was recorded at 7 1/2 ips.
> When we mastered it for LP, I dubbed that tape to a 15 ips tape for editing
> and mastering.  For the comparison, I used this 15 ips tape, not the
> original 7  1/2 ips master.  As you can probably guess, the candidates
> INVARIABLY chose the LP which had audible surface noise as sounding
> superior to what they thought was a CD but was in fact the master analog
> tape.  In one case, one of the "victims" said, "You can hear the warm
> ambience as soon as the stylus touches the disc."
>
> I rest my case - at least until someone chooses to argue it.
> Regards!db
>
>     On Friday, August 26, 2016 3:48 PM, Clark Johnsen <
> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>
>  To David Burnham:
>
> A nay and a yay:
>
> *  This "ambience" is nothing more than the sound of stylus against groove
> walls - it has nothing to do with the original recording.  I have no doubt
> that these enthusiasts would prefer the sound of an LP to the sound of the
> master tape from which it was made.*
>
> Beg to differ with both parts. The first is a mere assertion, the second is
> simply untrue.
>
> * Many if not most 78s from the pre-tape era are also direct to disc
> recordings so if you have a good copy and good equipment to play it on, a
> 78 will give better reproduction than any subsequent mastering efforts.*
>
> Quite right!
>
> Clark
>
> On Fri, Aug 26, 2016 at 12:39 PM, DAVID BURNHAM <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
>
> > I think the question comes down to do you want reasons to keep CLASSICAL
> > vinyl, as opposed to other genres on vinyl or reasons to keep classical
> > VINYL as opposed to CDs or whatever.  As all collectors know, there are
> > those who worship vinyl as a medium and feel that it is so superior to
> > other media, and those who think those collectors should belong to the
> flat
> > earth society of audio.  Vinyl DOES have its advantages, mainly that the
> > highest frequency harmonic content is more accurately reproduced than on
> > CDs; this is because the highest frequency harmonic content is so low in
> > level compared to the main body of the audio signal and therefore there
> are
> > very few bits available to accurately reproduce it.  It is in this area
> > that SACDs are so superior.  Many vinyl enthusiasts love the "ambience"
> > around the music that is missing on CDs.  This "ambience" is nothing more
> > than the sound of stylus against groove walls - it has nothing to do with
> > the original recording.  I have no doubt that these enthusiasts would
> > prefer the sound of an LP to the sound of the master tape from which it
> was
> > made.
> > As opposed to many 78s, the main characteristic of LPs that lowers their
> > status as a medium is that, aside from the few direct to disc recordings
> > that have come out, they are all two or more generations removed from the
> > master recording and it is that master that, as long as it's preserved,
> > will keep the recordings alive.  Many if not most 78s from the pre-tape
> era
> > are also direct to disc recordings so if you have a good copy and good
> > equipment to play it on, a 78 will give better reproduction than any
> > subsequent mastering efforts.
> > db
> >
> >    On Friday, August 26, 2016 11:22 AM, Benjamin Roth <[log in to unmask]>
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> >  Greetings everyone.
> >
> > I need some help in convincing someone to keep a collection of classical
> > vinyl.
> >
> > ASAP!!!  Please!
> > Ben Roth
> > '
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>


-- 
Ellis
[log in to unmask]
818-846-5525

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