Hi, Mark,
Thank you (as always) for the insight. I've been discussing this
possibility with others. It is on a 10.5-inch reel and appears to be in
its original box as the box and real serial numbers match. It is Ampex
467 (for what that's worth).
I have come to believe that the cue track may be on the opposite edge
from the Sony cue track. It plays forward with the tape in B-wind, tails
out configuration and doesn't play at all in A-wind, tails out. The
music is going in the right direction.
Surprise, the printed manual for the Sony 3402 has a good explanation of
the DASH format up to 48 channels. For the stereo machines (which were
capable of 7.5 in/s operation, though generally ran at 15 in/s -- or the
44.1 related speed) they used four tracks per channel. With the 30 in/s
multi-tracks, it was one track per channel.
In addition, at the top of the tape were the two analog audio channels
and at the bottom of the tape the control track and timecode track.
It appears that they follow the IRIG & cassette track numbering
conventions, from the baseplate up rather than the audio convention from
the top down.
There are 12 tracks on the tape from the top:
Aux 4 (analog 1, analog head -- following the audio convention)
Aux 3 (analog 2, analog head)
Digital 8, digital head
Digital 7, digital head
Digital 6, digital head
Digital 5, digital head
Digital 4, digital head
Digital 3, digital head
Digital 2, digital head
Digital 1, digital head
Aux 2 (CTL, digital head)
Aux 1 (Timecode, analog head)
DARN - I just found AES_Preprint_2521_Overview_of_PD_format_2645.PDF
from 1987. It shows the same essential format as the Sony.
From what I can quickly glean from the Sony and Mitsubishi stuff I've
looked at today, the assignment of the bits are different so the two
digital formats are totally incompatible.
Neither manufacturer has provided a dimensioned drawing of the track
layout, just a schematic, and neither clearly shows the baseplate
(unlike IRIG which does). It could be drawn looking at the head through
the tape or with the tape flipped down.
I have not gotten the Arnold viewer to show anything useful.
AES_Preprint_1408_2-Ch_digital_recorder_1510.PDF from 1978 shows one
analog track (but labelled "Analogue tracks") on both outside edges and
four PCM tracks drawn but an ellipsis (vertical) in the centre implying
more PCM tracks.
Much of the time between 1978 and 1986 was spent refining the
Reed-Solomon error correcting code around fingerprints and splices on/in
the tape, or so it seems from the papers I have.
The 1978 date talks about a 44.056 kHz sampling frequency while the
later ones talk about 44.1 and 38 kHz sampling frequencies. So that's
still not the original X80 with the 50.4 kHz sampling frequency, though
I doubt that a 1986 recording would have been made with a 50.4 kHz recorder.
Sommeone suggested that the tape might have been left in B-wind. It
wasn't and I can't get any digits to respond in B wind, though a single
cue track comes through in the right direction.
The person who had the B-wind Sony tape received it that way and it
played when he reverted to A-wind, it was not recorded through the
back-coating. I have never convinced myself that the digital signal
could be read through the back coating.
So, with all this research, I am thinking that it is a Mitsubishi not a
Sony tape. I have to get the LA Mitsubishi and/or Iron Mountain
information to my client.
Cheers,
Richard
On 10/17/2016 12:21, Mark Donahue wrote:
> Richard,
> What kind of reel is it? 10.5"? 7.5"? I ask because the other variable is
> that is may be a NagraD tape if it is on a 7.5" reel. If it's on a 10.5"
> reel it is most likely one of the Mitsu variations. Unfortunately all
> these machines had analog cue tracks, so that doesn't help...
> All the best,
> -mark
>
> On Sun, Oct 16, 2016 at 4:15 PM, Richard L. Hess <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
>
>> Thanks, Alex,
>>
>> It is 1/4-inch Ampex 467 and has been baked and ran very smoothly.
>>
>> I don't mind sending it off, but I'd like to ID that it's Mitsubishi.
>>
>> Up until now, I've only received Sony DASH tapes. I had a pair of
>> Mitsubishi X86 machines for about eight years and never had any call for
>> them and now Iron Mountain has them. The problem is, there were five
>> formats and you needed at least three machines to play all of them. I had
>> the X86's without the -C mod, so they only played X86 tapes.
>>
>> GAK!
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Richard
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 10/16/2016 04:20, Alex Tomlin wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Richard
>>>
>>> The tape width is key as multis are 1/2" and 1". Is it also 467?
>>>
>>> Sometimes you can find out about who recorded it and what machine was
>>> available to them either via hire or studio.
>>>
>>> In my experience the most common 2 track reels have been pro digi such as
>>> x86 etc, trail and error is the id method basically.
>>>
>>> Baking and clean is essential if ampex stock.
>>>
>>> Alex.
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On 16 Oct 2016, at 01:08, Richard L. Hess <[log in to unmask]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Sorry I was vague. This is a two channel recording (as far as I know)
>>>> and is on 1/4-inch tape. I received an offlist response that indicated this
>>>> was necessary to help some people help me.
>>>>
>>>> Sorry for the intrusion.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 10/15/2016 19:35, Richard L. Hess wrote:
>>>>> I ahould have added:
>>>>>
>>>>> It was made by/for Prestige Productions in Birmingham. My contact said
>>>>> that they originally thought a Betamax digital recorder (PCM/F1, I think
>>>>> he means) was going to be used then they showed up with this...but he
>>>>> doesn't know what it was. He thought Sony.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 10/15/2016 19:06, Richard L. Hess wrote:
>>>>>> I was asked to turn a DASH tape into files. The tape owner was fairly
>>>>>> certain it was made on a SONY machine.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It would not play on my 3402 which still plays other tapes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I baked the tape prior to playback which has been necessary for at
>>>>>> least
>>>>>> a few years and is being done in Hollywood on multi-track DASH.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I believe the tape is tails out, but I could not hear anything on the
>>>>>> aux tracks. When played backwards, I can hear backwards organ sounds
>>>>>> (it
>>>>>> is a theatre pipe organ recording) on one channel only.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It appears to be about 15 in/s.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have posted on my website after much research that there are five
>>>>>> variations of the Mitsubishi Pro-Digi format.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1. The original X-80 machine had a 50 kHz sample rate. It’s tapes will
>>>>>> play back properly on a 50 ks/s X-80, or 4% slow on a 48 ks/s X-80 or
>>>>>> an
>>>>>> X-86C.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2. Later X-80 machines had a 48 kHz sample rate. It’s tapes will play
>>>>>> back properly on a 48 ks/s X-80 or an X-86C. Presumably they will also
>>>>>> play 4% fast on an original, 50 kHz X-80.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 3. The switchable 44.1/48 ks/s X-86 tapes will play on an X-86, X-86C,
>>>>>> and X-86HS.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 4. The high-resolution (88.2/96 ks/s) X-86HS tapes will only play on
>>>>>> that machine.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 5. The “radio-station” 7.5 in/s tapes made on the X-86LT will only play
>>>>>> on that machine.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As far as I know there is only one Sony format.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So what do you think this tape might be?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Richard
>>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>> Richard L. Hess email: [log in to unmask]
>>>> Aurora, Ontario, Canada 647 479 2800
>>>> http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm
>>>> Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes.
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>> Richard L. Hess email: [log in to unmask]
>> Aurora, Ontario, Canada 647 479 2800
>> http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm
>> Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes.
>>
>
--
Richard L. Hess email: [log in to unmask]
Aurora, Ontario, Canada 647 479 2800
http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm
Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes.
|
