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PCCLIST  February 2017

PCCLIST February 2017

Subject:

SACO headings

From:

"Danley, Mark H CIV USA USMA" <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Program for Cooperative Cataloging <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Wed, 15 Feb 2017 21:07:39 +0000

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (1 lines)

If the work is about the planned 1779 invasion but focuses on Spain and the Spanish point of view, that decision seems sound. 

 Whether it should get "Anglo-Spanish War, 1779-1783 -- Campaigns" or "Anglo-French War, 1778-1783 -- Campaigns" would depend on the focus of the work.  In my opinion, if it's about the 1779 invasion attempt generally, it should probably get both.

The main (until the appearance of whatever you're cataloging?) scholarly monograph on this campaign, A. Temple Patterson's The Other Armada: The Franco-Spanish Attempt to Invade Britain in 1779. [Manchester, UK]: University Press, 1960) covers all aspects of the campaign (French plans and actions, Spanish plans and actions, and British defensive plans and actions ,etc.) but confusingly only gets Anglo-French War, 1779-1783 on some OCLC records (e.g. OCLC # 77927898).

I think the essence of this problem lays with LCSH's insistence on defining some early modern armed conflicts from exclusively American points of view and conceptually splitting apart -- in a very questionable way --  some global wars according to that myopic point of view.    

One egregious example is the historiographically vital work Piers Mackesy's War for America: 1775-1783 (Cambridge, MA: Harvard University Press, 1965 and later editions) -- which clearly portrays the war Britain fought from 1775-1783 against its rebellious North American colonies and, eventually, against France, Spain and the United Provinces as one war.  Mackesy also shows that contemporary British political and military leaders thought of it that way also, once France and Spain got involved.
 
Under LCSH we don't have a heading for that war, and so (for Mackesy's book) somebody had to give the rather unwieldy array 150 United States History Revolution 1775-1783 plus 150 Great Britain History 1760-1789 (e.g. OCLC #26851403).  One could add 150 Anglo-Spanish War, 1779-1783 and 150 Anglo-French War, 1778-1783, but that would make it more unwieldy, though somewhat more accurate.  

LCSH's myopic approach to the scope of eighteenth-century conflicts inhibits collocation.  There are potential solutions, of course, but given the gigantic scope of bibliographic file maintenance that any of them would likely cause, I wonder whether most parties would balk.   

Even more acute examples come from the War of the Austrian Succession  and the Seven Years' War -- the treatment  of the latter conflict in LCSH and LC Classification having long bedeviled me personally as both cataloger and historian.

This same conceptual problems rears its ugly head in LC Classification, but I will leave that for another time.

Best regards,

Mark Danley

_________________
Mark H. Danley, Ph.D.

Librarian, Information Resources
United States Military Academy Library

Jefferson Hall
758 Cullum Road
West Point, NY 10996-1709

845-938-8268

[all statements above represent my individual professional opinions and are not official U.S. Army or Department of Defense policy]

-----Original Message-----
From: Program for Cooperative Cataloging [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Allison Rich
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2017 2:44 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [PCCLIST] SACO headings

We have decoded to go with Anglo-Soanish War Campaigns.
That will cover it.

THanks!
Allison



	A fleet is a corporate name when it is a component of the armed forces of a country.  The Armada of 1779 was a “combined Franco-Spanish naval enterprise” during the Anglo-French War of 1778-1783.  It would seem to fall under “Expeditions, Military” in Group 2 of SHM H 405.  These are established as 150.

	 

	The subject heading “Anglo-French War, 1778-1783—Campaigns” might cover it too.

	 

	------------------------------------------

	John Hostage

	Senior Continuing Resources Cataloger

	Harvard Library--Information and Technical Services

	Langdell Hall 194

	Harvard Law School Library

	Cambridge, MA 02138

	[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> 

	+(1)(617) 495-3974 (voice)

	+(1)(617) 496-4409 (fax)
	ISNI 0000 0000 4028 0917

	 

	From: Program for Cooperative Cataloging [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Robert Bratton
	Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2017 1:45 PM
	To: [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> 
	Subject: Re: [PCCLIST] SACO headings

	 

	It seems strange to me that a ship would be a corporate name AAP but a whole fleet of them would be a subject AAP.  Shipyards are also corporate name AAPs.  The Armada example looks like an exception rather than the rule.

	 

	There are also corporate AAP examples like:

	 

	Great Britain. Royal Navy. British Pacific Fleet

	 

	Maryland. State Fishery Force

	 

	Japan. Kaigun. 88 Kantai

	 

	Robert

	 

	--

	Robert Bratton

	Cataloging Librarian

	Jacob Burns Law Library

	George Washington University

	Washington, DC

	 

	On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 12:44 PM, Ann Heinrichs <[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> > wrote:

	FYI, the ol' familiar Spanish Armada is a Subject (Armada, 1588).

	 

	On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 11:24 AM, Allison Rich <[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> > wrote:

	Thank you, Rowena and Nathan:
	
	We have a work on this event:
	
	https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armada_of_1779
	
	I am not finding any allowance for Fleets in that list.
	
	Does this mean it's created in NACO?
	
	Many thanks again for your further replies,
	Allison
	
	

		Here it is:

		 

		https://www.loc.gov/marc/authority/ambiguous-headings.html

		 

		Rowena Griem

		Catalog Librarian for Germanic Languages

		Yale University Library

		P.O. Box 208240

		New Haven, CT 06520-8240

		 

		 

		 

		From: Program for Cooperative Cataloging [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Allison Rich
		Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2017 12:04 PM
		To: [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> 
		Subject: [PCCLIST] SACO headings

		 

		Hello all:

		I cannot seem to locate the page which tells you which headings are NACO and which are SACO.

		I suspect we have one which will be a SACO headings (it's a fleet, like the Armada, 1588 heading) but I would just like to confirm.

		Thank you for sending the link.

		Allison

		-- 
		 
		********************************
		"Outside of a dog, 
		a book is probably man's best friend,
		and inside of a dog, 
		it's too dark to read. 
		- Groucho Marx"
		 
		Allison Rich
		Rare Materials Cataloguer
		ESTC and NACO Coordinator
		 
		John Carter Brown Library
		Providence, Rhode Island
		[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> 
		 
		******************************** 

	 

	 

	-- 
	 
	********************************
	"Outside of a dog, 
	a book is probably man's best friend,
	and inside of a dog, 
	it's too dark to read. 
	- Groucho Marx"
	 
	Allison Rich
	Rare Materials Cataloguer
	ESTC and NACO Coordinator
	 
	John Carter Brown Library
	Providence, Rhode Island
	[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> 
	 
	******************************** 

	
	
	

	-- 

	Ann Heinrichs

	Metadata/Cataloging Librarian

	The Paul Bechtold Library

	Catholic Theological Union

	5401 S. Cornell Ave.

	Chicago, IL 60615
	http://www.ctu.edu/library

	[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> 

	 





-- 

********************************
"Outside of a dog, 
a book is probably man's best friend,
and inside of a dog, 
it's too dark to read. 
- Groucho Marx"

Allison Rich
Rare Materials Cataloguer
ESTC and NACO Coordinator

John Carter Brown Library
Providence, Rhode Island
[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> 

******************************** 

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