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ARSCLIST  April 2017

ARSCLIST April 2017

Subject:

Re: How many half-tones from 78 rpm to 80 rpm

From:

"Gary A. Galo" <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Mon, 24 Apr 2017 22:43:04 +0000

Content-Type:

text/plain

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Parts/Attachments

text/plain (1 lines)

Copied below is a chart I made years ago of common "78 rpm" playback speeds, and the percentage of change needed on an SP-15 to achieve those speeds. This chart is valid for any turntable that actually runs at 78.26 when 78 is selected. The maximum change that a stock SP-15 can achieve is +/- 9.9%, so there are a few speeds on the chart that are outside that range. 

Note that Edison and Columbia would not have had any means of measuring speeds to a tenth or a hundredth of 80 rpm. So the nominal speed is 80.00, though limitations in measurement and the cutting equipment often meant that the actually speed was something close, but not always dead on. In the final analysis, you have to use your ears. 

It wasn't possible to accurately measure turntable speeds until we had AC power distribution and strobe discs. My old Victor catalogs suggest putting a piece of paper between the record and the turntable and counting 78 revolutions in one minute. Not only is this quite imprecise, but Victor obviously was unaware that their cutters were usually running at some speed other than 78 rpm (76.6 and 75.0 are the most common in the acoustic era). They were insistent that their records were recorded at 78, but they were dead wrong in most cases! (Some people have suggested that Victor thought their records sounded better when played back sharp, hence their recommendation of 78 rpm. I just don't buy it - I think they simply didn't know any better.)

I recently got involved in transferring some of my old Sony PCM-F1 digital Beta tapes from the 1980s to current digital standards, using a PCM-601 processor which has an S/PDIF digital output. The sample rate for the F1 format is 44.056 kHz, not 44.1 like the CD. This is a 0.1% difference, which must be corrected with a sample rate conversion. An engineer I know said he neglected to take into account the sample rate difference when he did his first F1 transfer some time ago. The musician he did it for came back to him and said "This isn't the pitch I played it at." Yes, these very small differences are, indeed, audible, which is why we make a -2.1% adjustment when playing 76.6 rpm Victors, and not -2.0% or -2.2%.  

Gary


TECHNICS SP-15  
  SPEED CHART

RPM    %CHANGE
67.92
70.51      -9.9%
71.29      -8.9%
73.47      -6.1%
75.00      -4.1%
76.60      -2.1%
77.00      -1.6%
77.47	    -1.0%			
77.50      -0.9%
78.00      -0.3%	
78.26       0.0
80.00      +2.2%
86.00      +9.9%
86.75
87.80





-----Original Message-----
From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Gary A. Galo
Sent: Monday, April 24, 2017 6:11 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] How many half-tones from 78 rpm to 80 rpm

78.26 did not become a standard speed until electric motors were used in cutter and playback turntables. In the acoustic era, 78 usually meant 78.00. But, if you’re using a modern turntable like, say, a Technics SP-15, 78 actually is 78.26, and the percentage of change must be calculated from that.

Gary

____________________________

Gary Galo
Audio Engineer Emeritus
The Crane School of Music
SUNY at Potsdam, NY 13676

"Great art presupposes the alert mind of the educated listener."
Arnold Schoenberg

"A true artist doesn't want to be admired, he wants to be believed."
Igor Markevitch

From: DAVID BURNHAM [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Monday, April 24, 2017 6:05 PM
To: Gary A. Galo
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] How many half-tones from 78 rpm to 80 rpm

That's fine, but the standard speed for 78s IS 78.26; I don't know if 80RPM records included a fraction.  LPs, of course are always based on 33 1/3 RPM, so there would be no reason to relate anything to 33.00 RPM.  I'm sure the original question was searching for a corrective adjustment to adapt from standard 78 to Columbia's 80 RPM, but that's only a guess.

db



On Monday, April 24, 2017 5:56 PM, Gary A. Galo <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:

I specifically said 78.00 in my reply. I assumed that if you meant 78.26, you would have said so.

Gary


-----Original Message-----
From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List [mailto:[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>] On Behalf Of DAVID BURNHAM
Sent: Monday, April 24, 2017 4:44 PM
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] How many half-tones from 78 rpm to 80 rpm

Are you basing that on 78.00 RPM or 78.26 RPM?
Not challenging you just a question.
db

    On Monday, April 24, 2017 4:18 PM, Gary A. Galo <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:


A quarter tone is 3%, a half tone is 6%, and a whole tone is 12%. So, the difference between 78.00 and 80 is just a hair under a quarter tone. A quarter tone would be 80.34; a half tone is 82.68..

Gary

____________________________

Gary Galo
Audio Engineer Emeritus
The Crane School of Music
SUNY at Potsdam, NY 13676

"Great art presupposes the alert mind of the educated listener."
Arnold Schoenberg

"A true artist doesn't want to be admired, he wants to be believed."
Igor Markevitch

-----Original Message-----
From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List [mailto:[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>] On Behalf Of James Roth
Sent: Monday, April 24, 2017 3:31 PM
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: [ARSCLIST] How many half-tones from 78 rpm to 80 rpm

Hello everybody,

Can anyone tell me how many half-tones up from 78 rpm to 80 rpm?

Thanks.
Ben Roth



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