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ARSCLIST  May 2017

ARSCLIST May 2017

Subject:

Re: Great 78 Project

From:

Malcolm <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sat, 13 May 2017 06:52:54 -1000

Content-Type:

text/plain

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Parts/Attachments

text/plain (173 lines)

I think what Maddie is describing, inclusivity over exclusivity, is 
what's known in some circles as the Johnny Parth model. He had (has? I 
don't know if he's still alive) Document Records and one of his stated 
desires was to find and release every record in Dixon & Godrich's "Blues 
& Gospel Records" discography, some of which are extremely rare and hard 
to impossible to find. A detailed history of the label can be found on 
the Document website at http://document-records.com/
Click on News and then The History of Document Records - Part 1.
In any case he'd accept what he found and release it in no matter what 
condition thinking, no doubt, that first issues of the rarer sides could 
be replaced on later LPs or CDs. Restoration was absent or spotty at 
best but he's pretty much legendary in his field for his efforts.
Congratulations, Brewster, and good luck!
Malcolm

*******

On 5/12/2017 7:48 PM, Maddie Dietrich wrote:
> All, I think this is all EXCELLENT and I applaud your work! My only
> thought, in terms of building a reference (listening) collection, is to err
> on the side of inclusivity of content over exclusivity due to quality of
> transfer. Obviously your prescribed recommended tech standards are STRONGLY
> preferred, but I wonder if something is better than nothing. This is surely
> more a philosophical consideration, and I am sensitive to the very real
> concerns about poor and/or dubious fidelity diminishing the value of the
> collection as a viable and reputable resource. And as I dig myself ever
> deeper here, I think I'll stop and step out this hole and listen and learn
> from your comments. Regardless, the project very exciting indeed.
> CONGRATULATIONS ALL!
>
> Maddie
>
>
> On Fri, May 12, 2017 at 17:47 Clark Johnsen <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>> Right. The over-processed problem. I had forgotten that very conspicuous
>> and horrid accretion. My primary concern, however, is what happens after
>> the needle hits the groove. In two words, the playback quality. . . before
>> a signal hits the processors. I've been working on this situation, creating
>> a veritable taxonomy of proper playback, for several decades. But as with
>> noise reduction, everyone has his own fixed ideas.
>>
>> On Fri, May 12, 2017 at 12:47 PM, Mint Records <[log in to unmask]
>> wrote:
>>
>>> What a great project. Whilst the George Blood LP transfers are obviously
>>> well done, there does need to be some sort of quality control for
>> material
>>> sent by others. For instance I have looked for recordings on Archive.org
>> in
>>> the past and found some horrible transfers often with the note "78 RPM
>>> record GRINDING noises is removed (with Goldwave) so that we can hear
>> what
>>> went onto the record instead of nearly a century of misuse". These
>>> recordings have had ridiculous amounts of noise reduction applied and
>> sound
>>> appalling. Searching http://archive.org/details/78rpm  links to many of
>>> these, along with low quality MP3's etc.
>>>
>>> The minimum standard should be 44/16 flac with no restoration. although
>>> archival 96/24 is preferable.So I think what Clark was saying is very
>>> valid.
>>>
>>> I applaud your idea, but if not transferred professionally by someone who
>>> knows and understands the medium to the proper standard then you run the
>>> risk of devaluing the whole project (in my opinion)
>>>
>>> Take these two - taken at random. Both appalling transfers with all the
>>> life sucked out of them by heavy handed noise reduction and covered in
>>> artifacts.
>>>
>>> https://archive.org/details/GloomySunday-theFamousHungarianSuicideSong
>>>
>>> https://archive.org/details/FredAstaire-31-33
>>>
>>> Richard
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 12 May 2017 at 13:32, Brewster Kahle <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Clark--
>>>>
>>>> If you are talking about the transfers quality on archive.org, may I
>>>> suggest you look at the ones here:
>>>>
>>>>       https://archive.org/details/georgeblood?sort=-publicdate
>>>> these are the ones we have transferred with George Blood and listed in
>>>> most recently archived first.
>>>>
>>>> These are 96KHz, 24bit deep monster FLAC files, with both EQ and Flat
>>>> versions, and with 4 different styli.    This is to make it so we have
>>>> alot to work with, and I hope there will be debates in the reviews as
>> to
>>>> which is better for which disc.
>>>> They are all recorded at 78.16rpm (I think), but if others would like
>> it
>>>> we can make the player adjustable to make it so there can be runtime
>>>> adjustments.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> If you are talking more philosophically about digital v physical, I
>>>> think of this as a reference collection, not as a full-on substitute.
>> I
>>>> hope we can use this project to research transfer techniques, discover
>>>> 78's and experience them in new ways, and show the value in these discs
>>>> so encourage physical AND digital preservation.
>>>>
>>>> -brewster
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 5/11/17 10:53 PM, Clark Johnsen wrote:
>>>>> A noble project indeed. Just two caveats. There are various ways to
>>> play
>>>>> the discs, some better than others, some very poor indeed. Are the
>>> latter
>>>>> to stand as the permanent representations? And then one must ask what
>>>>> digital medium is utterly trustworthy? And/or which "cloud"?
>>>>>
>>>>> These questions have bothered me for several decades. To my mind they
>>>>> remain unanswered.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, May 12, 2017 at 12:45 AM, Brewster Kahle <
>> [log in to unmask]
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Today at the ARSC meeting we announced "The Great 78 Project" to
>>>>>> encourage preservation, research and discovery of 78rpm records.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Internet Archive, working with the Archive of Contemporary Music
>>> (B
>>>>>> George), George Blood LP, and Coast Mastering (Jessica Thompson), we
>>> now
>>>>>> have a project website:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>       http://great78.archive.org/    and
>>>>>>
>>>>>>       http://archive.org/details/78rpm where users have uploaded
>>> 57,000
>>>>>> 78's and cylinder transfers, and
>>>>>>
>>>>>>       we have started digitizing donated collections.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The idea is to make this a community project to help bring all of
>> our
>>>>>> collections to light and weave them into the web.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Please give feedback and please join!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    * *Share knowledge.* Help us improve metadata, curate the
>>> collection,
>>>>>>      contact collectors, do research on the corpus, etc.
>>>>>>    * *Include your digitized collection.* If you have already
>> digitized
>>>>>>      78s or related books or media, we’d like to include your work in
>>> the
>>>>>>      collection.
>>>>>>    * *Digitize your collection.*  We’ve worked hard to make
>>> digitization
>>>>>>      safe, fast and affordable, so if you’d like to digitize your
>>>>>>      collection we can help.
>>>>>>    * *Donate 78s.*  We will digitize your collection and preserve the
>>>>>>      physical discs for the long term.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Any ideas or questions:  [log in to unmask]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -brewster
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Digital Librarian
>>>>>> Internet Archive
>>>>>>

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