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ARSCLIST  July 2017

ARSCLIST July 2017

Subject:

Re: Vinyl Sales DOWN - why? See interesting WSJ article today

From:

John Haley <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Mon, 24 Jul 2017 22:02:34 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (230 lines)

So much of this discussion just blows by me.  The whole vinyl trend, which
is what it is (and apparently a dying one), is based on the false
assumption that somehow analog beats digital.  Both media are worth only
what is put into them, but digital is a far more transparent way of
reproducing music than any vinyl record can ever be.  Period.  That is
simply an absolute scientific truth.

I am often appalled at all the waste of resources that has been poured into
trying to "resurrect" vinyl by those who are fooling themselves into
believing that it is somehow superior.  My vinyl record collection is as
large as anyone else's, but for heaven's sake, it is time to let it go when
it comes to new releases.

Yes, there are plenty of examples where the LP sounds better than the CD.
In the early CD era there were technical issues, but it has been a long
time since those existed.  Apart from that early era, those examples where
the LP sounds better are only because the engineering choices that went
into the CD (remastering, etc.) were not up to stuff or were misguided or
even uninformed.

There is another layer to all this, which is that almost all analog tape
master sources really need to some "sprucing up" to sound their best in
today's world, and that kind of work is only done in the digital domain.
That means that the master gets converted to hi-def digital in order to
perform the necessary work to it.  Many things generally need to be
addressed--redoing splices, fixing drop-outs, correcting bad edits,
correcting pitch anomalies, addressing deterioration of the tape
itself--it's a long list.  Very few master tapes from decades ago survive
today in pristine condition.  The idea that an old analog tape will just be
dubbed into a record cutting machine strikes me as most unlikely in almost
all cases.  There may be people who do that, but I can't come up with any
good reason why.

Best,
John Haley






On Mon, Jul 24, 2017 at 6:12 PM, Gary A. Galo <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> Agreed! Same with 78s.
>
> Best,
> Gary
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List [mailto:
> [log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Shai Drori
> Sent: Monday, July 24, 2017 5:23 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Vinyl Sales DOWN - why? See interesting WSJ
> article today
>
> Hi Gary
> There is another option, that people buy the LP for it's NOT perfect sound.
> I love vinyl for what it is, and also for the non audio visual part of
> seeing the turntable turn.
>
> בברכה,
> שי דרורי.
> מומחה לשימור ודיגיטציה של אודיו וידאו ופילם 8-35ממ Cheers Shai Drori
> Expert digitization services for Audio Video Hi Res scanning for film
> 8mm-35mm Timeless Recordings Music Label www.audiovideofilm.com
> [log in to unmask] Tripadvisor level 5 contributor, level 10 restaurant
> expert
>
> On Mon, Jul 24, 2017 at 10:14 PM, Gary A. Galo <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> > I agree that good vinyl cut from a digital master can sound really great.
> > I still play some of those old Telarc LPs cut from the Soundstream
> > digital tapes, and they still sound pretty spectacular. But, those
> > were made at a time when there was no consumer digital format. The
> > only way to offer their digitally-mastered recordings to the consumer
> > was on vinyl. If the goal is to get as close as possible to the sound
> > of the original master, then vinyl cut from digital makes no sense
> > anymore. If a vinyl record cut from a digital master sounds better
> > than an accurate digital file or high-res disc made from that digital
> > master, then the vinyl is probably hiding something on the digital
> > master that we don't like, or masking a problem in the master with
> something euphonic.
> >
> > Gary
> >
> > ____________________________
> >
> > Gary Galo
> > Audio Engineer Emeritus
> > The Crane School of Music
> > SUNY at Potsdam, NY 13676
> >
> > "Great art presupposes the alert mind of the educated listener."
> > Arnold Schoenberg
> >
> > "A true artist doesn't want to be admired, he wants to be believed."
> > Igor Markevitch
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List [mailto:
> > [log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Shai Drori
> > Sent: Monday, July 24, 2017 3:04 PM
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Vinyl Sales DOWN - why? See interesting WSJ
> > article today
> >
> > If I may offer my $0.02 as a consumer this time. Some of the stuff on
> > vinyl is there for no reason as new pressing like Herb Alpert. Why
> > spend
> > $30 on something you can find in the $1 bin? Other stuff is just too
> > weird for me to gamble $30 on. With the cost of pressing vinyl down to
> > about $2 for high volume, it seems like the record companies haven't
> > learned their lesson, and still try to milk a cow dry rather than look
> > at what would sustain the niche for many years. I buy a lot of vinyl
> > in used stores, I find lots of cool stuff I like at prices I am
> > willing to spend. Not $30. As for the master being analog or digital,
> > I couldn't care less, and let's face it, 99.9999% of the people that
> > would listen to a good quality pressing wouldn't be able to tell the
> > difference. Vinyl is noisy enough, and personally, I care about the
> pressing, not the origin of the master.
> > It's 2017, there is a lot of both treasures and garbage that
> > originates as analog and digital. A good cut from a digital source
> > sound amazing on vinyl, trust me, I got more than a few of those.
> >
> > בברכה,
> > שי דרורי.
> > מומחה לשימור ודיגיטציה של אודיו וידאו ופילם 8-35ממ Cheers Shai Drori
> > Expert digitization services for Audio Video Hi Res scanning for film
> > 8mm-35mm Timeless Recordings Music Label www.audiovideofilm.com
> > [log in to unmask] Tripadvisor level 5 contributor, level 10
> > restaurant expert
> >
> > On Mon, Jul 24, 2017 at 9:44 PM, Eli Bildirici <
> > 0000000fd3a0d01d-dmarc- [log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >
> > > Yeah. There are still some ppl doing analogue mastering - Classic
> > > Records, Music Matters, Analogue Productions, Sterling (on behalf of
> > > others) but it's the exception rather than the rule. I think Music
> > > Matters may have stopped due to limited sales though (and they're
> > > one of
> > the 'good guys'
> > > here).
> > >
> > >
> > > -------- Original Message --------
> > > From: "Gary A. Galo" <[log in to unmask]>
> > > Sent: Monday, July 24, 2017 01:58 PM
> > > To: [log in to unmask]
> > > Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Vinyl Sales DOWN - why? See interesting WSJ
> > > article today
> > >
> > > >
> > > > The whole rationale for vinyl lovers is to be able to hear their
> > > favorite recordings from the analog tape era on records made with
> > > the best possible disc cutting and pressing. I don't know any vinyl
> > > lovers who want records cut from all-digital sources. For them, the
> > > whole point is all-analog.
> > > >
> > > > Gary
> > > >
> > > > ____________________________
> > > >
> > > > Gary Galo
> > > > Audio Engineer Emeritus
> > > > The Crane School of Music
> > > > SUNY at Potsdam, NY 13676
> > > >
> > > > "Great art presupposes the alert mind of the educated listener."
> > > > Arnold Schoenberg
> > > >
> > > > "A true artist doesn't want to be admired, he wants to be believed."
> > > > Igor Markevitch
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List [mailto:
> > > [log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Lou Judson
> > > > Sent: Monday, July 24, 2017 1:52 PM
> > > > To: [log in to unmask]
> > > > Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Vinyl Sales DOWN - why? See interesting
> > > > WSJ
> > > article today
> > > >
> > > > Thanks. That one says basically sales are slipping due to poor
> > > > sound,
> > > bad mastering, and not using the original analogue tapes.
> > > >
> > > > Most recordings these days never had an analog stage, but it would
> > > > still
> > > be possible to make a good-sounding Lp from a born-digital source.
> > > But most people have forgotten how, if they ever knew.
> > > >
> > > > It is all a bad business decision to do it the way they have done
> it...
> > > >
> > > > Yet hi res downloads are still growing!
> > > >
> > > > <L>
> > > >
> > > > Lou Judson
> > > > Intuitive Audio
> > > > 415-883-2689
> > > >
> > > > On Jul 24, 2017, at 10:38 AM, David Crosthwait <[log in to unmask]>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > A similar article is here:
> > > > >
> > > > > https://www.channelnews.com.au/vinyl-sales-slump-quality-blamed/
> > > > > <
> > > https://www.channelnews.com.au/vinyl-sales-slump-quality-blamed/>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > David Crosthwait
> > > > > DC Video
> > > > > www.dcvideo.com
> > > > >
> > > > >> On Jul 24, 2017, at 10:17 AM, Lou Judson <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Tell us a little about what the subscribers' article says...
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

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