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ARSCLIST  July 2017

ARSCLIST July 2017

Subject:

Re: Cleaning up records, (was) Finding dates for 78's

From:

Mickey Clark <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sun, 9 Jul 2017 13:46:59 -0700

Content-Type:

text/plain

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Parts/Attachments

text/plain (238 lines)

The quality of tape hiss and record hiss is different. As I said -  I deal 
with it effectively with the declick function_Mickey
-----Original Message----- 
From: Ted Kendall
Sent: Sunday, July 09, 2017 1:12 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Cleaning up records, (was) Finding dates for 78's

No, sir, 78s do have hiss - not generally white or pink in spectrum, to
be sure, but hiss nevertheless.


On 09/07/2017 18:56, Mickey Clark wrote:
> I have been using Dartpro MT - I like it because it has a "Filter 
> builder" - the program doesn't like 24 bit but I transfer at 24/96,000 , 
> resample to 16/96000 then decrackle starting with a setting of 50 
> repeating the process with an increase each time by another 10 i.e. 50, 
> 60, 70, 80 (maximum) if more noise is still there, I run repeatedly at 80 
> until the reported interventions get to a number of 4000 or so. I can then 
> manually remove any clicks that are left.
>
> I don't use the denoise or dehiss, preferring to use declick  at very low 
> settings (78's don't have hiss - what you hear as hiss is the combination 
> of many little clicks.
>
> I start with a setting of 2 then 4 then 6 . I leave the settings the same 
> then just find whether 1 or 2 or 3 passes will polish the higher noise 
> away. Decrackle doesn't affect the high frequencies but declick does. This 
> process takes a little time but I almost never find that any distortion is 
> introduced to the sound.  I hate getting to the end of the record where 
> the really growly trumpet sound is a distorted mess, and this workflow 
> prevents that. - Mickey Clark
>
> -----Original Message----- From: George Brock-Nannestad
> Sent: Sunday, July 09, 2017 10:02 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Cleaning up records, (was) Finding dates for 78's
>
> From: George Brock-Nannestad
>
>
> Brewster, first of all my deepest respect for the initiative that is 
> making so
> much available that would never see a re-issue. I have my strong 
> reservations
> about re-issues because there are so few sound restorers that I respect, 
> and
> because they as well as those who do a shabby work have to work to the 
> dictum
> of the re-issuing entity "we are not in the business of selling noise".
>
> Hence I much prefer undoctored transfers that anybody may doctor to their
> liking, because that does not impose any taste on anybody else. I do not 
> agree
> that it is good that many have been restored. That said, it would depend 
> on
> what the Internet Archive aims at.
>
> If it is catering to the general and still not very informed public, then 
> I
> sadly agree -- restoration may be necessary. However, if you intend to 
> make
> source material available to the discerning academic, then you must also
> provide a non-restored version. Remember that what was previously in 
> musical
> and academic circles considered trash may be a fascinating object for 
> research,
> and that research has to have the best conditions.
>
> The work of George Blood is fascinating and unprecedented, because we are
> ourselves permitted to decide which stylus to use -- the stylus decides 
> both
> noise and distortion. We even have the possibility (with suitable editing
> software) to make a composite compromise, because the time function is 
> exactly
> the same for all versions (which the use of consecutive transfers may not
> provide).
>
> There is free- or shareware available that will handle virtually all 
> problems
> with record noise, the only thing is for general public use we need good
> instructors to write good and simple instructions for how to use this 
> software.
> I am specifically thinking of the ClickRepair suite of software from 
> Australia.
>
> One thing that I have not found out yet is how to find specific records in
> archive.org. Perhaps I, too, need "good and simple instructions for how to 
> use
> it".
>
> Keep up the good work,
>
>
> George
>
> ------------------------------------
> From: Brewster Kahle <[log in to unmask]>
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Cleaning up records, (was) Finding dates for 78's
> Date sent: Sun, 9 Jul 2017 07:50:00 -0700
>
>
>> Cory, Ted and others-
>>
>> On restoration-- what do you suggest for restoration?
>>
>> Already people have posted 50k 78's to the Internet Archive, many of
>> which have been restored, which is good.
>>
>> A new push is to transfer 100's of thousands of sides to build a
>> reference collection for preservation, research, and discovery.   Best
>> case we bring millions online to get closer to the estimate, I heard
>> from David Seubert, of 3M sides recorded in that format.
>>
>> I am listening to them raw and having a blast, but as you all know the
>> surface noise can be quite high, especially on our earlier records.
>>
>> I am hoping that if we do the transfers very well and very consistently
>> then there may be some people willing to invest the time to develop
>> tools/techniques made possible by having different stylii and high
>> bitrate samples of the discs.   This kind of research is what this
>> project is for.  But this is a hope at this point.
>>
>> For the record, here are the sides that have been digitized so far:
>> https://archive.org/details/georgeblood each have 9 flacs in 96kHz/24bit
>> format that are downloadable to aid research and preservation.
>>
>> Any suggestions, especially ones that could be applied economically,
>> would be most welcome.
>>
>> -brewster
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 7/8/17 10:59 PM, Corey Bailey wrote:
>> > Hi Brewster,
>> >
>> > As one who transfers the analog audio from discs (and audio tape) and,
>> > does restoration work on a copy of the digital files, I can tell you
>> > that each and every record is somewhat different. I've done hundreds,
>> > literally, from instantaneous discs (cardboard laminated Recordio's to
>> > one-off lacquers) to LP's and each one requires some sort of
>> > individual attention if you want to maintain the original integrity
>> > and musicality of the recording. Yes, one winds up with some custom
>> > settings but each disc will, no doubt, require some individual
>> > tweaking. Batch processing is a nice thought though. One that I wished
>> > would work on several occasions.
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> >
>> > Corey
>> > Corey Bailey Audio Engineering
>> > www.baileyzone.net
>> >
>> > On 7/8/2017 10:10 PM, Brewster Kahle wrote:
>> >> Lou,
>> >>
>> >> We hope the transfers will be good for researching different cleanup
>> >> approaches, basically be a good reference collection for this kind of
>> >> work.
>> >>
>> >> We dont have funding at this point for cleanup, but hopefully it
>> comes
>> >> through us or others.
>> >>
>> >> I was thinking with a consistent collection of hundreds of
>> thousands of
>> >> sides, we could attract some advanced techniques to be tried...  dont
>> >> know if it makes sense, but we might be able to do "semantic"
>> >> restoration:
>> >>
>> http://blog.archive.org/2017/06/03/dreaming-of-semantic-audio-restoration-at-a
>> -massive-scale/#comments
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> -brewster
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On 7/7/17 12:01 PM, Lou Judson wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Wow, Kitty Carlisle sining? I thought she was just a game show
>> >>> contestant....
>> >>>
>> >>> Nice transfers. If there was funding I could take time from my work
>> >>> to do cleanup, which I love to do. But at the moment, I donĀ“t have
>> >>> time to cleanup my studio! :-)
>> >>>
>> >>> <L>
>> >>> Lou Judson
>> >>> Intuitive Audio
>> >>> 415-883-2689
>> >>>
>> >>> On Jul 7, 2017, at 11:45 AM, Brewster Kahle<[log in to unmask]>
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>> We just got the new ~3000 78rpm transfers from george blood's
>> >>>> company--
>> >>>> fun!  We have a script that leverages the dates on
>> >>>> 78discography.com and
>> >>>> discogs.com to put dates on them.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> We got just under 1/2 of them to have dates:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> https://archive.org/search.php?query=shiptracking%3A%2216651_16727_16776_16831
>> %22%20AND%20date%3A%2A
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> and these don't have dates:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> https://archive.org/search.php?query=shiptracking%3A%2216651_16727_16776_16831
>> %22%20AND%20NOT%20date%3A%2A
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> If you are interested in researching any of these for dates,
>> genres,
>> >>>> anything that you find fun, and put the information in the review.
>> >>>> There are interns at the Archive of Contemporary Music doing
>> this--  >>>> we
>> >>>> have a slack channel for anyone that wants to join in.   For those
>> >>>> that
>> >>>> get really into it, we can grant privs to edit the items
>> themselves.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> -brewster
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>
> 

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