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ARSCLIST  July 2017

ARSCLIST July 2017

Subject:

Re: Cleaning up records, (was) Finding dates for 78's

From:

Tim Gillett <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Mon, 10 Jul 2017 06:21:07 +0800

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (265 lines)

I agree with Ted in that there is a whole lot of hiss on many tapes and 
discs which a Declicker cannot touch. Even so I also agree with you. I would 
not normally use a Denoiser/Dehisser on that hiss. Unlike the Declicker it 
has severely limited applications in my experience.  For most of the time I 
feel the tool's use is misguided, and basically through failure  to 
understand the limits of what it can do and  a failure to listen attentively 
to the sonic result.

Tim Gillett

Perth,
Western Australia


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mickey Clark" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Monday, July 10, 2017 4:46 AM
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Cleaning up records, (was) Finding dates for 78's


> The quality of tape hiss and record hiss is different. As I said -  I deal 
> with it effectively with the declick function_Mickey
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Ted Kendall
> Sent: Sunday, July 09, 2017 1:12 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Cleaning up records, (was) Finding dates for 78's
>
> No, sir, 78s do have hiss - not generally white or pink in spectrum, to
> be sure, but hiss nevertheless.
>
>
> On 09/07/2017 18:56, Mickey Clark wrote:
>> I have been using Dartpro MT - I like it because it has a "Filter 
>> builder" - the program doesn't like 24 bit but I transfer at 24/96,000 , 
>> resample to 16/96000 then decrackle starting with a setting of 50 
>> repeating the process with an increase each time by another 10 i.e. 50, 
>> 60, 70, 80 (maximum) if more noise is still there, I run repeatedly at 80 
>> until the reported interventions get to a number of 4000 or so. I can 
>> then manually remove any clicks that are left.
>>
>> I don't use the denoise or dehiss, preferring to use declick  at very low 
>> settings (78's don't have hiss - what you hear as hiss is the combination 
>> of many little clicks.
>>
>> I start with a setting of 2 then 4 then 6 . I leave the settings the same 
>> then just find whether 1 or 2 or 3 passes will polish the higher noise 
>> away. Decrackle doesn't affect the high frequencies but declick does. 
>> This process takes a little time but I almost never find that any 
>> distortion is introduced to the sound.  I hate getting to the end of the 
>> record where the really growly trumpet sound is a distorted mess, and 
>> this workflow prevents that. - Mickey Clark
>>
>> -----Original Message----- From: George Brock-Nannestad
>> Sent: Sunday, July 09, 2017 10:02 AM
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Cleaning up records, (was) Finding dates for 78's
>>
>> From: George Brock-Nannestad
>>
>>
>> Brewster, first of all my deepest respect for the initiative that is 
>> making so
>> much available that would never see a re-issue. I have my strong 
>> reservations
>> about re-issues because there are so few sound restorers that I respect, 
>> and
>> because they as well as those who do a shabby work have to work to the 
>> dictum
>> of the re-issuing entity "we are not in the business of selling noise".
>>
>> Hence I much prefer undoctored transfers that anybody may doctor to their
>> liking, because that does not impose any taste on anybody else. I do not 
>> agree
>> that it is good that many have been restored. That said, it would depend 
>> on
>> what the Internet Archive aims at.
>>
>> If it is catering to the general and still not very informed public, then 
>> I
>> sadly agree -- restoration may be necessary. However, if you intend to 
>> make
>> source material available to the discerning academic, then you must also
>> provide a non-restored version. Remember that what was previously in 
>> musical
>> and academic circles considered trash may be a fascinating object for 
>> research,
>> and that research has to have the best conditions.
>>
>> The work of George Blood is fascinating and unprecedented, because we are
>> ourselves permitted to decide which stylus to use -- the stylus decides 
>> both
>> noise and distortion. We even have the possibility (with suitable editing
>> software) to make a composite compromise, because the time function is 
>> exactly
>> the same for all versions (which the use of consecutive transfers may not
>> provide).
>>
>> There is free- or shareware available that will handle virtually all 
>> problems
>> with record noise, the only thing is for general public use we need good
>> instructors to write good and simple instructions for how to use this 
>> software.
>> I am specifically thinking of the ClickRepair suite of software from 
>> Australia.
>>
>> One thing that I have not found out yet is how to find specific records 
>> in
>> archive.org. Perhaps I, too, need "good and simple instructions for how 
>> to use
>> it".
>>
>> Keep up the good work,
>>
>>
>> George
>>
>> ------------------------------------
>> From: Brewster Kahle <[log in to unmask]>
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Cleaning up records, (was) Finding dates for 78's
>> Date sent: Sun, 9 Jul 2017 07:50:00 -0700
>>
>>
>>> Cory, Ted and others-
>>>
>>> On restoration-- what do you suggest for restoration?
>>>
>>> Already people have posted 50k 78's to the Internet Archive, many of
>>> which have been restored, which is good.
>>>
>>> A new push is to transfer 100's of thousands of sides to build a
>>> reference collection for preservation, research, and discovery.   Best
>>> case we bring millions online to get closer to the estimate, I heard
>>> from David Seubert, of 3M sides recorded in that format.
>>>
>>> I am listening to them raw and having a blast, but as you all know the
>>> surface noise can be quite high, especially on our earlier records.
>>>
>>> I am hoping that if we do the transfers very well and very consistently
>>> then there may be some people willing to invest the time to develop
>>> tools/techniques made possible by having different stylii and high
>>> bitrate samples of the discs.   This kind of research is what this
>>> project is for.  But this is a hope at this point.
>>>
>>> For the record, here are the sides that have been digitized so far:
>>> https://archive.org/details/georgeblood each have 9 flacs in 96kHz/24bit
>>> format that are downloadable to aid research and preservation.
>>>
>>> Any suggestions, especially ones that could be applied economically,
>>> would be most welcome.
>>>
>>> -brewster
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 7/8/17 10:59 PM, Corey Bailey wrote:
>>> > Hi Brewster,
>>> >
>>> > As one who transfers the analog audio from discs (and audio tape) and,
>>> > does restoration work on a copy of the digital files, I can tell you
>>> > that each and every record is somewhat different. I've done hundreds,
>>> > literally, from instantaneous discs (cardboard laminated Recordio's to
>>> > one-off lacquers) to LP's and each one requires some sort of
>>> > individual attention if you want to maintain the original integrity
>>> > and musicality of the recording. Yes, one winds up with some custom
>>> > settings but each disc will, no doubt, require some individual
>>> > tweaking. Batch processing is a nice thought though. One that I wished
>>> > would work on several occasions.
>>> >
>>> > Regards,
>>> >
>>> > Corey
>>> > Corey Bailey Audio Engineering
>>> > www.baileyzone.net
>>> >
>>> > On 7/8/2017 10:10 PM, Brewster Kahle wrote:
>>> >> Lou,
>>> >>
>>> >> We hope the transfers will be good for researching different cleanup
>>> >> approaches, basically be a good reference collection for this kind of
>>> >> work.
>>> >>
>>> >> We dont have funding at this point for cleanup, but hopefully it
>>> comes
>>> >> through us or others.
>>> >>
>>> >> I was thinking with a consistent collection of hundreds of
>>> thousands of
>>> >> sides, we could attract some advanced techniques to be tried...  dont
>>> >> know if it makes sense, but we might be able to do "semantic"
>>> >> restoration:
>>> >>
>>> http://blog.archive.org/2017/06/03/dreaming-of-semantic-audio-restoration-at-a
>>> -massive-scale/#comments
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> -brewster
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> On 7/7/17 12:01 PM, Lou Judson wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>> Wow, Kitty Carlisle sining? I thought she was just a game show
>>> >>> contestant....
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Nice transfers. If there was funding I could take time from my work
>>> >>> to do cleanup, which I love to do. But at the moment, I donĀ“t have
>>> >>> time to cleanup my studio! :-)
>>> >>>
>>> >>> <L>
>>> >>> Lou Judson
>>> >>> Intuitive Audio
>>> >>> 415-883-2689
>>> >>>
>>> >>> On Jul 7, 2017, at 11:45 AM, Brewster Kahle<[log in to unmask]>
>>> >>> wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>> We just got the new ~3000 78rpm transfers from george blood's
>>> >>>> company--
>>> >>>> fun!  We have a script that leverages the dates on
>>> >>>> 78discography.com and
>>> >>>> discogs.com to put dates on them.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> We got just under 1/2 of them to have dates:
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> https://archive.org/search.php?query=shiptracking%3A%2216651_16727_16776_16831
>>> %22%20AND%20date%3A%2A
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> and these don't have dates:
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> https://archive.org/search.php?query=shiptracking%3A%2216651_16727_16776_16831
>>> %22%20AND%20NOT%20date%3A%2A
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> If you are interested in researching any of these for dates,
>>> genres,
>>> >>>> anything that you find fun, and put the information in the review.
>>> >>>> There are interns at the Archive of Contemporary Music doing
>>> this--  >>>> we
>>> >>>> have a slack channel for anyone that wants to join in.   For those
>>> >>>> that
>>> >>>> get really into it, we can grant privs to edit the items
>>> themselves.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> -brewster
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>
>> 


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