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ARSCLIST  July 2017

ARSCLIST July 2017

Subject:

Re: Cleaning up records, (was) Finding dates for 78's

From:

Brewster Kahle <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sun, 9 Jul 2017 11:47:08 -0700

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (197 lines)

George--

Thank you for the nice note.  

To help find ways into this collection I just wrote a draft to address
this, but before I post it to blog.archive.org, pls comment:

    
https://docs.google.com/document/d/13AJBrkU4qUsjWkqo8B4wQowK9cpuEVVuKLe9AlisAss/edit

I hope there are those that explore using the data from multiple stylii
to make a composite restoration-- exactly why we are keeping them all.


I hope the Great 78 Project will aid the 78 community to learn from each
other and teach why these recordings are relevant to a wider public.

-brewster



On 7/9/17 10:02 AM, George Brock-Nannestad wrote:
> From: George Brock-Nannestad
>
>
> Brewster, first of all my deepest respect for the initiative that is making so 
> much available that would never see a re-issue. I have my strong reservations 
> about re-issues because there are so few sound restorers that I respect, and 
> because they as well as those who do a shabby work have to work to the dictum 
> of the re-issuing entity "we are not in the business of selling noise". 
>
> Hence I much prefer undoctored transfers that anybody may doctor to their 
> liking, because that does not impose any taste on anybody else. I do not agree 
> that it is good that many have been restored. That said, it would depend on 
> what the Internet Archive aims at.
>
> If it is catering to the general and still not very informed public, then I 
> sadly agree -- restoration may be necessary. However, if you intend to make 
> source material available to the discerning academic, then you must also 
> provide a non-restored version. Remember that what was previously in musical 
> and academic circles considered trash may be a fascinating object for research, 
> and that research has to have the best conditions.
>
> The work of George Blood is fascinating and unprecedented, because we are 
> ourselves permitted to decide which stylus to use -- the stylus decides both 
> noise and distortion. We even have the possibility (with suitable editing 
> software) to make a composite compromise, because the time function is exactly 
> the same for all versions (which the use of consecutive transfers may not 
> provide).
>
> There is free- or shareware available that will handle virtually all problems 
> with record noise, the only thing is for general public use we need good 
> instructors to write good and simple instructions for how to use this software. 
> I am specifically thinking of the ClickRepair suite of software from Australia.
>
> One thing that I have not found out yet is how to find specific records in 
> archive.org. Perhaps I, too, need "good and simple instructions for how to use 
> it".
>
> Keep up the good work,
>
>
> George
>
> ------------------------------------
> From:	Brewster Kahle <[log in to unmask]>
> To:	[log in to unmask] 
> Subject:	Re: [ARSCLIST] Cleaning up records, (was) Finding dates for 78's
> Date sent:	Sun, 9 Jul 2017 07:50:00 -0700
>
>
>> Cory, Ted and others-
>>
>> On restoration-- what do you suggest for restoration? 
>>
>> Already people have posted 50k 78's to the Internet Archive, many of
>> which have been restored, which is good.
>>
>> A new push is to transfer 100's of thousands of sides to build a
>> reference collection for preservation, research, and discovery.   Best
>> case we bring millions online to get closer to the estimate, I heard
>> from David Seubert, of 3M sides recorded in that format.
>>
>> I am listening to them raw and having a blast, but as you all know the
>> surface noise can be quite high, especially on our earlier records.
>>
>> I am hoping that if we do the transfers very well and very consistently
>> then there may be some people willing to invest the time to develop
>> tools/techniques made possible by having different stylii and high
>> bitrate samples of the discs.   This kind of research is what this
>> project is for.  But this is a hope at this point.   
>>
>> For the record, here are the sides that have been digitized so far: 
>> https://archive.org/details/georgeblood each have 9 flacs in 96kHz/24bit
>> format that are downloadable to aid research and preservation.
>>
>> Any suggestions, especially ones that could be applied economically,
>> would be most welcome.
>>
>> -brewster
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 7/8/17 10:59 PM, Corey Bailey wrote:
>>> Hi Brewster,
>>>
>>> As one who transfers the analog audio from discs (and audio tape) and,
>>> does restoration work on a copy of the digital files, I can tell you
>>> that each and every record is somewhat different. I've done hundreds,
>>> literally, from instantaneous discs (cardboard laminated Recordio's to
>>> one-off lacquers) to LP's and each one requires some sort of
>>> individual attention if you want to maintain the original integrity
>>> and musicality of the recording. Yes, one winds up with some custom
>>> settings but each disc will, no doubt, require some individual
>>> tweaking. Batch processing is a nice thought though. One that I wished
>>> would work on several occasions.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Corey
>>> Corey Bailey Audio Engineering
>>> www.baileyzone.net
>>>
>>> On 7/8/2017 10:10 PM, Brewster Kahle wrote:
>>>> Lou,
>>>>
>>>> We hope the transfers will be good for researching different cleanup
>>>> approaches, basically be a good reference collection for this kind of
>>>> work.
>>>>
>>>> We dont have funding at this point for cleanup, but hopefully it comes
>>>> through us or others.
>>>>
>>>> I was thinking with a consistent collection of hundreds of thousands of
>>>> sides, we could attract some advanced techniques to be tried...  dont
>>>> know if it makes sense, but we might be able to do "semantic"
>>>> restoration:
>>>>
>> http://blog.archive.org/2017/06/03/dreaming-of-semantic-audio-restoration-at-a
>> -massive-scale/#comments
>>>>
>>>> -brewster
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 7/7/17 12:01 PM, Lou Judson wrote:
>>>>   
>>>>> Wow, Kitty Carlisle sining? I thought she was just a game show
>>>>> contestant....
>>>>>
>>>>> Nice transfers. If there was funding I could take time from my work
>>>>> to do cleanup, which I love to do. But at the moment, I donĀ“t have
>>>>> time to cleanup my studio! :-)
>>>>>
>>>>> <L>
>>>>> Lou Judson
>>>>> Intuitive Audio
>>>>> 415-883-2689
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jul 7, 2017, at 11:45 AM, Brewster Kahle<[log in to unmask]> 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>     
>>>>>> We just got the new ~3000 78rpm transfers from george blood's
>>>>>> company--
>>>>>> fun!  We have a script that leverages the dates on
>>>>>> 78discography.com and
>>>>>> discogs.com to put dates on them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We got just under 1/2 of them to have dates:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>> https://archive.org/search.php?query=shiptracking%3A%2216651_16727_16776_16831
>> %22%20AND%20date%3A%2A
>>>>>>
>>>>>> and these don't have dates:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>> https://archive.org/search.php?query=shiptracking%3A%2216651_16727_16776_16831
>> %22%20AND%20NOT%20date%3A%2A
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you are interested in researching any of these for dates, genres,
>>>>>> anything that you find fun, and put the information in the review.
>>>>>> There are interns at the Archive of Contemporary Music doing this-- we
>>>>>> have a slack channel for anyone that wants to join in.   For those
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> get really into it, we can grant privs to edit the items themselves.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -brewster
>>>>>>
>>>>>>        
>>>>    

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