Alex,

Wouldn't all those Märzendorfer Haydn records have been released first,
before NHS, on a European label?

I recall several excellent Märzendorfer MHS records that were non-Haydn.

Best,
John


On Sat, Aug 12, 2017 at 4:03 PM, John Haley <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> There are opera records released on London Records where they raised the
> pitch a quarter tone to squeeze it all on two LPs.  That does awful things
> to the voices and the musical impression, not to mention changing the tone
> of various orchestral instruments.
>
> Best,
> John
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 12, 2017 at 3:30 PM, Alan <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>> If you raise the pitch you raise the speed. This the piece is shorter and
>> it is easier to cut onto an lp.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> > On Aug 12, 2017, at 3:07 PM, Ron Roscoe <[log in to unmask]>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > How does E-flat minor help it to fit on one LP; or is it the "stereo"
>> that does it?  [Original Key is D minor].
>> > Ron Roscoe
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List [mailto:
>> [log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Gary A. Galo
>> > Sent: Saturday, August 12, 2017 1:39 PM
>> > To: [log in to unmask]
>> > Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] FW: [ARSCLIST] classical music LPs to CDs
>> >
>> > Right - Bob Fine bought the Everest equipment, including the 35 MM mag
>> film recorders, and the studio in Bayside, Queens, when Harry Belock closed
>> the Everest operation in 1961. So, the Mercury 35 MM recordings were not
>> only made on the same kind of equipment as the Everests, it was THE SAME
>> EQUIPMENT. Tom can elaborate, as you note.
>> >
>> > After Everest was sold, it became the shlock reissue outfit that
>> collectors came to loath throughout the remainder of the LP era. Records of
>> the Belock-era material were cut from 1/4-inch copies of the original 35 MM
>> and half-inch three-track masters, and they put out a large quantity of
>> mono material that they got from various sources, served up with fake
>> reverb and fake stereo. Perhaps their most (in)famous blunder was their
>> release of Furtwangler's 1942 Beethoven 9th, which they undoubtedly got off
>> a Soviet Melodiya LP, in "stereo" and in E-flat minor so it would fit on
>> one LP.
>> >
>> > Everest had three years as an audiophile record label - after 1961 it
>> was all downhill. During the early days of the CD some of the original
>> Everest material was reissued on Bescol and Priceless, from the 1/4-inch
>> copy tapes. They were horrendous.
>> >
>> > Best,
>> > Gary
>> >
>> > ____________________________
>> >
>> > Gary Galo
>> > Audio Engineer Emeritus
>> > The Crane School of Music
>> > SUNY at Potsdam, NY 13676
>> >
>> > "Great art presupposes the alert mind of the educated listener."
>> > Arnold Schoenberg
>> >
>> > "A true artist doesn't want to be admired, he wants to be believed."
>> > Igor Markevitch
>> >
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List [mailto:
>> [log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of John Haley
>> > Sent: Saturday, August 12, 2017 1:14 PM
>> > To: [log in to unmask]
>> > Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] FW: [ARSCLIST] classical music LPs to CDs
>> >
>> > The guy I corresponded with who was releasing Everest recordings in
>> hi-def was at Countdown, as outlined by Gary, which I think had been
>> acquired by Sony, but Sony definitely owned it.  The guy told me so.
>> Madacy, which I would have noticed, had nothing to do with this and was not
>> involved, Steve.  That had to have been some kind of other deal.
>> >
>> > Thanks for all that good explanation, Gary, which is very enlightening.
>> >
>> > We have to keep in mind that Everest's classical recordings were a
>> short-lived venture, lasting only a couple of years before it was all
>> sold.  Tom Fine's dad, Robert Fine, acquired Everest's recording equipment,
>> some or all of which he presumably used.  I'm sure Tom could elaborate.
>> >
>> > I contacted the Countdown fellow a couple of years ago to discuss a
>> batch of original Everest master tapes that are in my possession (there is
>> no doubt about what they are--and Countdown had them listed as "missing").
>> > The artist kept the tapes and so probably owned them in the first place.
>> > The recordings themselves do not really conform to how Everest did
>> things, so I have to assume they were generated by the artist and then
>> licensed to Everest for release.  There is no surviving paperwork
>> explaining anything.
>> > And I am aware that there are some other original Everest releases that
>> appear to have been "acquired" as opposed to recorded by Everest's team.
>> >
>> > Best,
>> > John
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >> On Sat, Aug 12, 2017 at 11:58 AM, Steve Smolian <[log in to unmask]>
>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> It was Madacy.  I worked on a project for them putting together the US
>> >> releases of all the labels they controlled at the time so they could
>> >> have original cover art.  I was told these Everest releases were in
>> the works.
>> >> The claimed to have the 35 mm masters.  Columbia, CBS or Sony
>> >> werenever uttered in this regard.
>> >>
>> >> My check said Madacy.
>> >>
>> >> Steve Smolian
>> >>
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List [mailto:
>> >> [log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Gary A. Galo
>> >> Sent: Saturday, August 12, 2017 11:25 AM
>> >> To: [log in to unmask]
>> >> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] FW: [ARSCLIST] classical music LPs to CDs
>> >>
>> >> The company that did the most recent Everest reissues was Countdown
>> Media.
>> >> I had no idea that they were under the Sony umbrella.
>> >>
>> >> http://evereststereo.com/
>> >>
>> >> They’re still available as high-res downloads from HDTracks, as well
>> >> as CD-Rs from Amazon. Bernie Grundman had done a bunch of the 35 MM
>> >> material for Classic Records, released as high-res DVD-Audio discs. In
>> >> those cases, Coundown used his transfers, applying some hiss reduction
>> to his work.
>> >> Grundman's originals sound better, and those 35 MM films don't need
>> >> his reduction, IHMO (granted, someone 40 years younger than me might
>> disagree!).
>> >>
>> >> For the material that Grundman had not already done, Countdown did
>> >> fresh transfers, using an Albrecht MB 51 35 MM mag film player. The
>> >> Albrecht machine is capstan rather than sprocket driven, which makes
>> >> it ideal for playing films that have shrunk. There were some photos on
>> >> the internet, which I can't seem to find, that showed a three--section
>> >> roller over the play head - one section directly over each of the
>> >> three tracks. For the 1/2-inch 3-track tapes, they used an Otari
>> >> MX-5050. The results vary - some turned out pretty well, others not so
>> >> well. The best of the Everest were really great recordings, but they
>> lacked the consistency of the Mercuries.
>> >>
>> >> Classic Records bought into the traditional line of crap about Bert
>> >> Whyte being the recording engineer on the Everests, as did Omega on
>> >> their excellent CD series back in the 1990s. He was not. Most of the
>> >> Everests were engineered by Aaron Nathanson or Joe Kane, and they are
>> >> generally credited properly on the original LP jackets. Kane did a lot
>> >> of the European recordings, and Nathanson did a lot of the US work.
>> >> Countdown has given proper credit to the original engineers, though
>> >> Whyte is often listen as "Producer". He was not the producer, either.
>> >> He's listed on many of the original LPs as "Recording Director", which
>> >> is more along the lines of an Executive Producer. He did make
>> >> decisions on artists and repertoire, but he could not be a producer
>> because he couldn't read a score.
>> >>
>> >> My original LP release of the Stokowski/Houston Parsifal excerpts -
>> >> SDBR-3031, reads as follows:
>> >>
>> >> Recording Director: Bert Whyte
>> >> Technical Director: Robert J. Engler
>> >> Musical Director: Raoul Poliakin
>> >> Recording Engineer: Aaron Nathanson
>> >>
>> >> This is typical of how Everest credited the people involved on their
>> >> original jackets. We can assume that Poliakin's function was that of
>> >> "producer."  He did some conducting of lighter fare for Everest, as
>> well.
>> >>
>> >> The Countdown series stopped after two batches of releases, probably
>> >> because sales were lower than expected.
>> >>
>> >> Best,
>> >> Gary
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List [mailto:
>> >> [log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of John Haley
>> >> Sent: Saturday, August 12, 2017 10:41 AM
>> >> To: [log in to unmask]
>> >> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] FW: [ARSCLIST] classical music LPs to CDs
>> >>
>> >> Alan is correct about E-One being the same as the former Koch.  E-One
>> >> was also a distributor for CD's but I believe has gone out of that
>> >> business about a year ago.
>> >>
>> >> The guy who was reissuing the Everest catalog, whose name I can't
>> >> think of right now,  was on the ARSC List and I corresponded with him
>> >> some several years ago.  His outfit was in Canada as I recall, and it
>> >> was owned by Sony.  We can all guess what happened to that enterprise.
>> >> He seems to have fallen silent.
>> >>
>> >> Best,
>> >> John Haley
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> On Sat, Aug 12, 2017 at 8:54 AM, Alan Lesitsky <[log in to unmask]>
>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> To add to Dennis' astute comments:
>> >>>
>> >>> 1. After the death of Seymour Solomon, the Vanguard tapes were sold
>> >>> to Artemis Classics, which continued to issue CDs (and even a few
>> >>> SACDs) for a few years until they went out of business.
>> >>>
>> >>> 2. The catalog floundered for a few years; I'm not sure who owned
>> >>> them, but they they went to E-one entertainment (I believe a
>> >>> rebranding of Koch International). They have been issued as
>> >>> on-demand CDRs from both Arkiv Music and Amazon , as well as on
>> >>> amazon as "Big-Box" downloads, where you could get several hours of
>> >>> music for 99
>> >> cents.
>> >>>
>> >>> 3. While the Big Box downloads remain, it appears that E-one has
>> >>> dropped any interest and promotion in their classical catalog, so it
>> >>> is again in limbo.
>> >>>
>> >>> As for Everest, when Vanguard issued them, it was under some sort of
>> >>> license (Bernard Solomon had no connection to Seymour and Maynard
>> >>> Solomon). Some owns the Everest tapes and has worked on issuing them
>> >>> as hi-res downloads, but I am not sure who it is.
>> >>>
>> >>> Anyone who can provide more detail (or corrections) is more than
>> welcome.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>> From: Dennis Rooney <[log in to unmask]>
>> >>>> Reply-To: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List
>> >>>> <[log in to unmask]>
>> >>>> Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2017 17:14:55 -0400
>> >>>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>> >>>> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] FW: [ARSCLIST] classical music LPs to CDs
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Reading through the thread, I should point out that Dr. Michael
>> >>>> Naida, prior to launching MHS, was the co-founder, with James
>> >>>> Grayson and Kurt List, of Westminster Recording Corp. Its
>> >>>> distinguished catalogue included many licensed items, mainly from
>> >> French labels Erato, Vega, and Selmer.
>> >>>> Following the sale of Westminster to ABC, Naida founded MHS, whose
>> >>>> catalogue was almost all licensed material. Lp mastering was
>> >>>> generally of high quality as well as the pressed product. In the
>> >>>> early 70s, MHS
>> >>> licensed
>> >>>> a large number of items from the British label Lyrita, a label
>> >>>> previously available only as a direct import. But remember, all
>> >>>> MHS licensed
>> >>> releases
>> >>>> derived from tape submitters.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Seymour Solomon bought back all the Vanguard classical catalogue
>> >>>> from
>> >>> Welk
>> >>>> and converted much of it to CD. The classical reissues of the Welk
>> >>>> era
>> >>> are
>> >>>> considerably inferior to the subsequent Vanguard releases. I do
>> >>>> not know what became of the Vanguard tapes after Seymour's death,
>> >>>>
>> >>>> DDR
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> On Thu, Aug 10, 2017 at 1:17 PM, David Lewis <[log in to unmask]>
>> wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Well, Vanguard has changed hands as I thought it might:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> http://www.concordmusicgroup.com/news/concord-music-group-
>> >>>>> acquires-famed-independent-labels-vanguard-sugar-hill-welk-music-
>> >>>>> gr
>> >>>>> oup/
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> best,
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> UD
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> On Thu, Aug 10, 2017 at 1:06 PM, Steve Smolian
>> >>>>> <[log in to unmask]>
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>> Two further search threads.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Concert Hall was owned by fitst name? Josefowitz.  Their
>> >>>>>> European
>> >>> branch
>> >>>>>> issued two Seefried LPs which I own- I'm a very big fan.  I
>> >>>>>> believe the violinist Lila Josefowicz (various spellings) is
>> related.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Some years ago I was involved in a reissue project involving the
>> >>>>>> Period label and similar- Stradavarius, Oxford, etc., though
>> >>>>>> much of it never
>> >>>>> came
>> >>>>>> out.  This was through a connection to the late Bernie Solomon
>> >>>>>> of excruciating Everest fame who claimed he had permission to
>> >>>>>> issue this
>> >>>>> stuff
>> >>>>>> but on a non-exclusive basis and had the paper work to back up
>> >>>>>> this
>> >>>>> claim.
>> >>>>>> In the course of this project, I had conversations with a
>> >>> representative
>> >>>>> of
>> >>>>>> the Canadian company, Madacy (?) who claimed the Period and
>> >>>>>> Remington
>> >>>>> tapes
>> >>>>>> were in their possession, as were masters of lots of the other
>> >>>>>> early classical mono LP labels, including Everest.  They
>> >>>>>> reissued a group of Everest items though some were for deluxe
>> >>>>>> download only,
>> >> as I recall.
>> >>> At
>> >>>>>> some point in the proceedings, contact between this company and
>> >>>>>> myself ceased from their end-- no more phone calls or emails
>> >>>>>> from them and no response to any from my side.  It felt as if
>> >>>>>> lawyers had stepped in
>> >>> but I
>> >>>>>> couldn't confirm this.  The Florida company for which I had
>> >>>>>> worked went
>> >>>>> on
>> >>>>>> to other things.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Madacy is related to record company in Hamburg that recorded and
>> >>>>>> owns
>> >>> or
>> >>>>>> owned the 101 strings (25-1/4 instruments?) catalog and thus
>> >>>>>> presumably these masters.  I forget the German company name at
>> >>>>>> the
>> >> moment.
>> >>> Anyway,
>> >>>>>> this is a rabbit hole thatneeds exploring.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Steve Smolian
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> ----Original Message-----
>> >>>>>> From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List [mailto:
>> >>>>>> [log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of John Haley
>> >>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2017 10:51 AM
>> >>>>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] FW: [ARSCLIST] classical music LPs to
>> >>>>>> CDs
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Gary is right about MHS.  They licensed any number of
>> >>>>>> distinguished European recordings, but I believe that they also
>> >>>>>> made some of their
>> >>> own
>> >>>>>> recordings early on.  As I recall, the company was founded by a
>> >>>>>> cellist named something like Naida, who appears as a player on
>> >>>>>> some of the
>> >>>>> earlier
>> >>>>>> chamber music recordings.  I had a lot of MHS recordings in my
>> >>>>>> youth
>> >>>>> (still
>> >>>>>> have them) and loved many of them.  It was an education in
>> >>>>>> baroque
>> >>> music,
>> >>>>>> with the likes of Kurt Redel, Marie-Claire Alain, Jean Pierre
>> >>>>>> Rampal,
>> >>>>> Karl
>> >>>>>> Ristenpart (fantastic conductor!), I solisti Veneti, and many
>> >>>>>> more very great musicians.  I bought the MHS Goberman Vivaldi
>> >>>>>> recordings, which I still have somewhere, but too many of them
>> >>>>>> are clearly rough sight-reading.  The quality of the pressings
>> >>>>>> was almost always
>> >>>>> excellent. I
>> >>>>>> know someone who is a friend of one of the descendants of the
>> >>>>>> owner of
>> >>>>> the
>> >>>>>> label, and this thread reminds me to follow up about what
>> >>>>>> happened to
>> >>> the
>> >>>>>> MHS master tapes.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> As for Remington and related labels, I have followed that trail
>> >>>>>> some
>> >>>>> years
>> >>>>>> ago.  With a few exceptions, the masters are lost.  The owner of
>> >>>>>> the
>> >>>>> label
>> >>>>>> died and his widow sold everything to a guy who was indicted and
>> >>>>> convicted
>> >>>>>> for fraud.  The Feds seized all the assets, including the
>> >>>>>> Remington masters, and they were never seen again, undoubtedly
>> >>>>>> destroyed (one
>> >>>>> cannot
>> >>>>>> find that out).  A few of them survived because they were loaned
>> >>>>>> out
>> >>> and
>> >>>>>> not returned, and about a dozen of those were later reissued in
>> >>>>>> fine pressings on Varese Sarabande. I don't know where those
>> >>>>>> masters are now--the guy who did the reissues, with whom I
>> >>>>>> spoke, won't say and
>> >>> won't
>> >>>>>> let anyone access them.  .
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Dave, don't you think that the Concert Hall label and assets
>> >>>>>> were
>> >>> simply
>> >>>>>> bought by someone in the UK?  It would be wonderful to find out
>> >>>>>> where
>> >>>>> those
>> >>>>>> master tapes went.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Best,
>> >>>>>> John Haley
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> On Thu, Aug 10, 2017 at 9:46 AM, Gary A. Galo
>> >>>>>> <[log in to unmask]>
>> >>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Everything MHS issued was legitimate and under license. They
>> >>>>>>> never used pseudonyms.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Gary
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>> >>>>>>> From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List [mailto:
>> >>>>>>> [log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Nick Morgan
>> >>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2017 9:42 AM
>> >>>>>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> >>>>>>> Subject: [ARSCLIST] FW: [ARSCLIST] classical music LPs to CDs
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Living in the UK, we don't see as many MHS LPs (or CDs) as you,
>> >>>>>>> but I have seen many of the European discs they originated
>> >>>>>>> from, and I've never seen any name changes beyond those deemed
>> >>>>>>> necessary to make maybe unfamiliar European ensemble names more
>> >>>>>>> transparent to US
>> >>> buyers.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> I'm no expert on the history of MHS - I wish I was - but I
>> >>>>>>> don't believe they would have needed to use pseudonyms, as they
>> >>>>>>> didn't (to my knowledge) issue European radio tapes which might
>> >>>>>>> have fallen off the back of a lorry, but licensed commercial
>> >>>>>>> European originations on a totally legit (and always
>> >>>>>>> acknowledged) basis. I'd welcome any correction.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> I believe MHS also originated material itself, or at least
>> >>> co-produced.
>> >>>>>>> One example is the Bach Cello Suites recorded by Nikolaus
>> >>>>>>> Harnoncourt; another is his Marin Marais LP. Both were licensed
>> >>>>>>> by Harmonia Mundi France, and are often assumed to be HM
>> >>>>>>> originations - but I don't think that's right. Seems odd, I
>> >>>>>>> know, that MHS should have a hand in these but in fact it had
>> >>>>>>> issued some of his earlier recordings made in Europe by
>> >>>>>>> Metronome and Amadeo. I'd love to know more but I fear that
>> >>>>>>> MHS's paper archive, if there was one, may already have bitten
>> >>>>>>> the
>> >>>>> dust.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> In fact, I'd love it if ARSC could look into the feasibility of
>> >>>>>>> a register of record company archives, not to mention master
>> >>>>>>> tapes
>> >>>>>>> - which would also include a register of known losses and
>> >> destructions.
>> >>>>>>> But I realise that's a very big, erm... ask.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Nick
>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>> >>>>>>> From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List [mailto:
>> >>>>>>> [log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Richard L. Hess
>> >>>>>>> Sent: 10 August 2017 13:53
>> >>>>>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] classical music LPs to CDs
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> On 2017-08-10 12:55 AM, Paul Stamler wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Tracing what became of the 1950s labels (and their master
>> >>>>>>>> tapes) might make a nice article for the ARSC Journal.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> And that brings to my mind, what happened to Musical Heritage
>> >> Society?
>> >>>>>>> I lost track of them when I left NYC in 1981 (if not before),
>> >>>>>>> but I understand that they moved from their over-stuffed
>> >>>>>>> Broadway office to some place in New Jersey. I have a bunch of
>> their LPs.
>> >>>>>>> They offered an interesting way to explore music at reduced cost.
>> >>>>>>> Of course you always had to send that blasted coupon back every
>> >>>>>>> month or you got something you didn't want!
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> My understanding was that many of their recordings were
>> >>>>>>> repurposed European recordings. Were they guilty of changing
>> >>>>>>> the names of the players/ensembles like some others?
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Cheers,
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Richard
>> >>>>>>> --
>> >>>>>>> Richard L. Hess                   email: [log in to unmask]
>> >>>>>>> Aurora, Ontario, Canada                             647 479 2800
>> >>>>>>> http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm
>> >>>>>>> Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> --
>> >>>> 1006 Langer Way
>> >>>> Delray Beach, FL 33483
>> >>>> 561.265.2976
>> >>>
>> >>
>>
>
>