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ARSCLIST  August 2017

ARSCLIST August 2017

Subject:

Re: FW: [ARSCLIST] classical music LPs to CDs

From:

John Haley <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sat, 12 Aug 2017 16:03:08 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (542 lines)

There are opera records released on London Records where they raised the
pitch a quarter tone to squeeze it all on two LPs.  That does awful things
to the voices and the musical impression, not to mention changing the tone
of various orchestral instruments.

Best,
John


On Sat, Aug 12, 2017 at 3:30 PM, Alan <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> If you raise the pitch you raise the speed. This the piece is shorter and
> it is easier to cut onto an lp.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Aug 12, 2017, at 3:07 PM, Ron Roscoe <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >
> > How does E-flat minor help it to fit on one LP; or is it the "stereo"
> that does it?  [Original Key is D minor].
> > Ron Roscoe
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List [mailto:
> [log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Gary A. Galo
> > Sent: Saturday, August 12, 2017 1:39 PM
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] FW: [ARSCLIST] classical music LPs to CDs
> >
> > Right - Bob Fine bought the Everest equipment, including the 35 MM mag
> film recorders, and the studio in Bayside, Queens, when Harry Belock closed
> the Everest operation in 1961. So, the Mercury 35 MM recordings were not
> only made on the same kind of equipment as the Everests, it was THE SAME
> EQUIPMENT. Tom can elaborate, as you note.
> >
> > After Everest was sold, it became the shlock reissue outfit that
> collectors came to loath throughout the remainder of the LP era. Records of
> the Belock-era material were cut from 1/4-inch copies of the original 35 MM
> and half-inch three-track masters, and they put out a large quantity of
> mono material that they got from various sources, served up with fake
> reverb and fake stereo. Perhaps their most (in)famous blunder was their
> release of Furtwangler's 1942 Beethoven 9th, which they undoubtedly got off
> a Soviet Melodiya LP, in "stereo" and in E-flat minor so it would fit on
> one LP.
> >
> > Everest had three years as an audiophile record label - after 1961 it
> was all downhill. During the early days of the CD some of the original
> Everest material was reissued on Bescol and Priceless, from the 1/4-inch
> copy tapes. They were horrendous.
> >
> > Best,
> > Gary
> >
> > ____________________________
> >
> > Gary Galo
> > Audio Engineer Emeritus
> > The Crane School of Music
> > SUNY at Potsdam, NY 13676
> >
> > "Great art presupposes the alert mind of the educated listener."
> > Arnold Schoenberg
> >
> > "A true artist doesn't want to be admired, he wants to be believed."
> > Igor Markevitch
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List [mailto:
> [log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of John Haley
> > Sent: Saturday, August 12, 2017 1:14 PM
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] FW: [ARSCLIST] classical music LPs to CDs
> >
> > The guy I corresponded with who was releasing Everest recordings in
> hi-def was at Countdown, as outlined by Gary, which I think had been
> acquired by Sony, but Sony definitely owned it.  The guy told me so.
> Madacy, which I would have noticed, had nothing to do with this and was not
> involved, Steve.  That had to have been some kind of other deal.
> >
> > Thanks for all that good explanation, Gary, which is very enlightening.
> >
> > We have to keep in mind that Everest's classical recordings were a
> short-lived venture, lasting only a couple of years before it was all
> sold.  Tom Fine's dad, Robert Fine, acquired Everest's recording equipment,
> some or all of which he presumably used.  I'm sure Tom could elaborate.
> >
> > I contacted the Countdown fellow a couple of years ago to discuss a
> batch of original Everest master tapes that are in my possession (there is
> no doubt about what they are--and Countdown had them listed as "missing").
> > The artist kept the tapes and so probably owned them in the first place.
> > The recordings themselves do not really conform to how Everest did
> things, so I have to assume they were generated by the artist and then
> licensed to Everest for release.  There is no surviving paperwork
> explaining anything.
> > And I am aware that there are some other original Everest releases that
> appear to have been "acquired" as opposed to recorded by Everest's team.
> >
> > Best,
> > John
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> On Sat, Aug 12, 2017 at 11:58 AM, Steve Smolian <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> It was Madacy.  I worked on a project for them putting together the US
> >> releases of all the labels they controlled at the time so they could
> >> have original cover art.  I was told these Everest releases were in the
> works.
> >> The claimed to have the 35 mm masters.  Columbia, CBS or Sony
> >> werenever uttered in this regard.
> >>
> >> My check said Madacy.
> >>
> >> Steve Smolian
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List [mailto:
> >> [log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Gary A. Galo
> >> Sent: Saturday, August 12, 2017 11:25 AM
> >> To: [log in to unmask]
> >> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] FW: [ARSCLIST] classical music LPs to CDs
> >>
> >> The company that did the most recent Everest reissues was Countdown
> Media.
> >> I had no idea that they were under the Sony umbrella.
> >>
> >> http://evereststereo.com/
> >>
> >> They’re still available as high-res downloads from HDTracks, as well
> >> as CD-Rs from Amazon. Bernie Grundman had done a bunch of the 35 MM
> >> material for Classic Records, released as high-res DVD-Audio discs. In
> >> those cases, Coundown used his transfers, applying some hiss reduction
> to his work.
> >> Grundman's originals sound better, and those 35 MM films don't need
> >> his reduction, IHMO (granted, someone 40 years younger than me might
> disagree!).
> >>
> >> For the material that Grundman had not already done, Countdown did
> >> fresh transfers, using an Albrecht MB 51 35 MM mag film player. The
> >> Albrecht machine is capstan rather than sprocket driven, which makes
> >> it ideal for playing films that have shrunk. There were some photos on
> >> the internet, which I can't seem to find, that showed a three--section
> >> roller over the play head - one section directly over each of the
> >> three tracks. For the 1/2-inch 3-track tapes, they used an Otari
> >> MX-5050. The results vary - some turned out pretty well, others not so
> >> well. The best of the Everest were really great recordings, but they
> lacked the consistency of the Mercuries.
> >>
> >> Classic Records bought into the traditional line of crap about Bert
> >> Whyte being the recording engineer on the Everests, as did Omega on
> >> their excellent CD series back in the 1990s. He was not. Most of the
> >> Everests were engineered by Aaron Nathanson or Joe Kane, and they are
> >> generally credited properly on the original LP jackets. Kane did a lot
> >> of the European recordings, and Nathanson did a lot of the US work.
> >> Countdown has given proper credit to the original engineers, though
> >> Whyte is often listen as "Producer". He was not the producer, either.
> >> He's listed on many of the original LPs as "Recording Director", which
> >> is more along the lines of an Executive Producer. He did make
> >> decisions on artists and repertoire, but he could not be a producer
> because he couldn't read a score.
> >>
> >> My original LP release of the Stokowski/Houston Parsifal excerpts -
> >> SDBR-3031, reads as follows:
> >>
> >> Recording Director: Bert Whyte
> >> Technical Director: Robert J. Engler
> >> Musical Director: Raoul Poliakin
> >> Recording Engineer: Aaron Nathanson
> >>
> >> This is typical of how Everest credited the people involved on their
> >> original jackets. We can assume that Poliakin's function was that of
> >> "producer."  He did some conducting of lighter fare for Everest, as
> well.
> >>
> >> The Countdown series stopped after two batches of releases, probably
> >> because sales were lower than expected.
> >>
> >> Best,
> >> Gary
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List [mailto:
> >> [log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of John Haley
> >> Sent: Saturday, August 12, 2017 10:41 AM
> >> To: [log in to unmask]
> >> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] FW: [ARSCLIST] classical music LPs to CDs
> >>
> >> Alan is correct about E-One being the same as the former Koch.  E-One
> >> was also a distributor for CD's but I believe has gone out of that
> >> business about a year ago.
> >>
> >> The guy who was reissuing the Everest catalog, whose name I can't
> >> think of right now,  was on the ARSC List and I corresponded with him
> >> some several years ago.  His outfit was in Canada as I recall, and it
> >> was owned by Sony.  We can all guess what happened to that enterprise.
> >> He seems to have fallen silent.
> >>
> >> Best,
> >> John Haley
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> On Sat, Aug 12, 2017 at 8:54 AM, Alan Lesitsky <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> To add to Dennis' astute comments:
> >>>
> >>> 1. After the death of Seymour Solomon, the Vanguard tapes were sold
> >>> to Artemis Classics, which continued to issue CDs (and even a few
> >>> SACDs) for a few years until they went out of business.
> >>>
> >>> 2. The catalog floundered for a few years; I'm not sure who owned
> >>> them, but they they went to E-one entertainment (I believe a
> >>> rebranding of Koch International). They have been issued as
> >>> on-demand CDRs from both Arkiv Music and Amazon , as well as on
> >>> amazon as "Big-Box" downloads, where you could get several hours of
> >>> music for 99
> >> cents.
> >>>
> >>> 3. While the Big Box downloads remain, it appears that E-one has
> >>> dropped any interest and promotion in their classical catalog, so it
> >>> is again in limbo.
> >>>
> >>> As for Everest, when Vanguard issued them, it was under some sort of
> >>> license (Bernard Solomon had no connection to Seymour and Maynard
> >>> Solomon). Some owns the Everest tapes and has worked on issuing them
> >>> as hi-res downloads, but I am not sure who it is.
> >>>
> >>> Anyone who can provide more detail (or corrections) is more than
> welcome.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> From: Dennis Rooney <[log in to unmask]>
> >>>> Reply-To: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List
> >>>> <[log in to unmask]>
> >>>> Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2017 17:14:55 -0400
> >>>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> >>>> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] FW: [ARSCLIST] classical music LPs to CDs
> >>>>
> >>>> Reading through the thread, I should point out that Dr. Michael
> >>>> Naida, prior to launching MHS, was the co-founder, with James
> >>>> Grayson and Kurt List, of Westminster Recording Corp. Its
> >>>> distinguished catalogue included many licensed items, mainly from
> >> French labels Erato, Vega, and Selmer.
> >>>> Following the sale of Westminster to ABC, Naida founded MHS, whose
> >>>> catalogue was almost all licensed material. Lp mastering was
> >>>> generally of high quality as well as the pressed product. In the
> >>>> early 70s, MHS
> >>> licensed
> >>>> a large number of items from the British label Lyrita, a label
> >>>> previously available only as a direct import. But remember, all
> >>>> MHS licensed
> >>> releases
> >>>> derived from tape submitters.
> >>>>
> >>>> Seymour Solomon bought back all the Vanguard classical catalogue
> >>>> from
> >>> Welk
> >>>> and converted much of it to CD. The classical reissues of the Welk
> >>>> era
> >>> are
> >>>> considerably inferior to the subsequent Vanguard releases. I do
> >>>> not know what became of the Vanguard tapes after Seymour's death,
> >>>>
> >>>> DDR
> >>>>
> >>>>> On Thu, Aug 10, 2017 at 1:17 PM, David Lewis <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Well, Vanguard has changed hands as I thought it might:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> http://www.concordmusicgroup.com/news/concord-music-group-
> >>>>> acquires-famed-independent-labels-vanguard-sugar-hill-welk-music-
> >>>>> gr
> >>>>> oup/
> >>>>>
> >>>>> best,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> UD
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Thu, Aug 10, 2017 at 1:06 PM, Steve Smolian
> >>>>> <[log in to unmask]>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Two further search threads.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Concert Hall was owned by fitst name? Josefowitz.  Their
> >>>>>> European
> >>> branch
> >>>>>> issued two Seefried LPs which I own- I'm a very big fan.  I
> >>>>>> believe the violinist Lila Josefowicz (various spellings) is
> related.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Some years ago I was involved in a reissue project involving the
> >>>>>> Period label and similar- Stradavarius, Oxford, etc., though
> >>>>>> much of it never
> >>>>> came
> >>>>>> out.  This was through a connection to the late Bernie Solomon
> >>>>>> of excruciating Everest fame who claimed he had permission to
> >>>>>> issue this
> >>>>> stuff
> >>>>>> but on a non-exclusive basis and had the paper work to back up
> >>>>>> this
> >>>>> claim.
> >>>>>> In the course of this project, I had conversations with a
> >>> representative
> >>>>> of
> >>>>>> the Canadian company, Madacy (?) who claimed the Period and
> >>>>>> Remington
> >>>>> tapes
> >>>>>> were in their possession, as were masters of lots of the other
> >>>>>> early classical mono LP labels, including Everest.  They
> >>>>>> reissued a group of Everest items though some were for deluxe
> >>>>>> download only,
> >> as I recall.
> >>> At
> >>>>>> some point in the proceedings, contact between this company and
> >>>>>> myself ceased from their end-- no more phone calls or emails
> >>>>>> from them and no response to any from my side.  It felt as if
> >>>>>> lawyers had stepped in
> >>> but I
> >>>>>> couldn't confirm this.  The Florida company for which I had
> >>>>>> worked went
> >>>>> on
> >>>>>> to other things.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Madacy is related to record company in Hamburg that recorded and
> >>>>>> owns
> >>> or
> >>>>>> owned the 101 strings (25-1/4 instruments?) catalog and thus
> >>>>>> presumably these masters.  I forget the German company name at
> >>>>>> the
> >> moment.
> >>> Anyway,
> >>>>>> this is a rabbit hole thatneeds exploring.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Steve Smolian
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> ----Original Message-----
> >>>>>> From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List [mailto:
> >>>>>> [log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of John Haley
> >>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2017 10:51 AM
> >>>>>> To: [log in to unmask]
> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] FW: [ARSCLIST] classical music LPs to
> >>>>>> CDs
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Gary is right about MHS.  They licensed any number of
> >>>>>> distinguished European recordings, but I believe that they also
> >>>>>> made some of their
> >>> own
> >>>>>> recordings early on.  As I recall, the company was founded by a
> >>>>>> cellist named something like Naida, who appears as a player on
> >>>>>> some of the
> >>>>> earlier
> >>>>>> chamber music recordings.  I had a lot of MHS recordings in my
> >>>>>> youth
> >>>>> (still
> >>>>>> have them) and loved many of them.  It was an education in
> >>>>>> baroque
> >>> music,
> >>>>>> with the likes of Kurt Redel, Marie-Claire Alain, Jean Pierre
> >>>>>> Rampal,
> >>>>> Karl
> >>>>>> Ristenpart (fantastic conductor!), I solisti Veneti, and many
> >>>>>> more very great musicians.  I bought the MHS Goberman Vivaldi
> >>>>>> recordings, which I still have somewhere, but too many of them
> >>>>>> are clearly rough sight-reading.  The quality of the pressings
> >>>>>> was almost always
> >>>>> excellent. I
> >>>>>> know someone who is a friend of one of the descendants of the
> >>>>>> owner of
> >>>>> the
> >>>>>> label, and this thread reminds me to follow up about what
> >>>>>> happened to
> >>> the
> >>>>>> MHS master tapes.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> As for Remington and related labels, I have followed that trail
> >>>>>> some
> >>>>> years
> >>>>>> ago.  With a few exceptions, the masters are lost.  The owner of
> >>>>>> the
> >>>>> label
> >>>>>> died and his widow sold everything to a guy who was indicted and
> >>>>> convicted
> >>>>>> for fraud.  The Feds seized all the assets, including the
> >>>>>> Remington masters, and they were never seen again, undoubtedly
> >>>>>> destroyed (one
> >>>>> cannot
> >>>>>> find that out).  A few of them survived because they were loaned
> >>>>>> out
> >>> and
> >>>>>> not returned, and about a dozen of those were later reissued in
> >>>>>> fine pressings on Varese Sarabande. I don't know where those
> >>>>>> masters are now--the guy who did the reissues, with whom I
> >>>>>> spoke, won't say and
> >>> won't
> >>>>>> let anyone access them.  .
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Dave, don't you think that the Concert Hall label and assets
> >>>>>> were
> >>> simply
> >>>>>> bought by someone in the UK?  It would be wonderful to find out
> >>>>>> where
> >>>>> those
> >>>>>> master tapes went.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Best,
> >>>>>> John Haley
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Thu, Aug 10, 2017 at 9:46 AM, Gary A. Galo
> >>>>>> <[log in to unmask]>
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Everything MHS issued was legitimate and under license. They
> >>>>>>> never used pseudonyms.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Gary
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>>> From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List [mailto:
> >>>>>>> [log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Nick Morgan
> >>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2017 9:42 AM
> >>>>>>> To: [log in to unmask]
> >>>>>>> Subject: [ARSCLIST] FW: [ARSCLIST] classical music LPs to CDs
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Living in the UK, we don't see as many MHS LPs (or CDs) as you,
> >>>>>>> but I have seen many of the European discs they originated
> >>>>>>> from, and I've never seen any name changes beyond those deemed
> >>>>>>> necessary to make maybe unfamiliar European ensemble names more
> >>>>>>> transparent to US
> >>> buyers.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I'm no expert on the history of MHS - I wish I was - but I
> >>>>>>> don't believe they would have needed to use pseudonyms, as they
> >>>>>>> didn't (to my knowledge) issue European radio tapes which might
> >>>>>>> have fallen off the back of a lorry, but licensed commercial
> >>>>>>> European originations on a totally legit (and always
> >>>>>>> acknowledged) basis. I'd welcome any correction.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I believe MHS also originated material itself, or at least
> >>> co-produced.
> >>>>>>> One example is the Bach Cello Suites recorded by Nikolaus
> >>>>>>> Harnoncourt; another is his Marin Marais LP. Both were licensed
> >>>>>>> by Harmonia Mundi France, and are often assumed to be HM
> >>>>>>> originations - but I don't think that's right. Seems odd, I
> >>>>>>> know, that MHS should have a hand in these but in fact it had
> >>>>>>> issued some of his earlier recordings made in Europe by
> >>>>>>> Metronome and Amadeo. I'd love to know more but I fear that
> >>>>>>> MHS's paper archive, if there was one, may already have bitten
> >>>>>>> the
> >>>>> dust.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> In fact, I'd love it if ARSC could look into the feasibility of
> >>>>>>> a register of record company archives, not to mention master
> >>>>>>> tapes
> >>>>>>> - which would also include a register of known losses and
> >> destructions.
> >>>>>>> But I realise that's a very big, erm... ask.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Nick
> >>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>>> From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List [mailto:
> >>>>>>> [log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Richard L. Hess
> >>>>>>> Sent: 10 August 2017 13:53
> >>>>>>> To: [log in to unmask]
> >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] classical music LPs to CDs
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On 2017-08-10 12:55 AM, Paul Stamler wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Tracing what became of the 1950s labels (and their master
> >>>>>>>> tapes) might make a nice article for the ARSC Journal.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> And that brings to my mind, what happened to Musical Heritage
> >> Society?
> >>>>>>> I lost track of them when I left NYC in 1981 (if not before),
> >>>>>>> but I understand that they moved from their over-stuffed
> >>>>>>> Broadway office to some place in New Jersey. I have a bunch of
> their LPs.
> >>>>>>> They offered an interesting way to explore music at reduced cost.
> >>>>>>> Of course you always had to send that blasted coupon back every
> >>>>>>> month or you got something you didn't want!
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> My understanding was that many of their recordings were
> >>>>>>> repurposed European recordings. Were they guilty of changing
> >>>>>>> the names of the players/ensembles like some others?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Cheers,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Richard
> >>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>> Richard L. Hess                   email: [log in to unmask]
> >>>>>>> Aurora, Ontario, Canada                             647 479 2800
> >>>>>>> http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm
> >>>>>>> Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> 1006 Langer Way
> >>>> Delray Beach, FL 33483
> >>>> 561.265.2976
> >>>
> >>
>

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