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ARSCLIST  September 2017

ARSCLIST September 2017

Subject:

Re: Major Tape Recorder brands

From:

Douglas Pomeroy <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sat, 2 Sep 2017 12:24:45 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (571 lines)

Mastertone Recorders on 42nd Street in New York City was a pro studio, 
and in the mid 1970's they were using a 1" 8-track 3M recorder.

 


Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2017 11:37:39 +0800
From:    Tim Gillett <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Major tape recorder brands

Paul,

3M machines but not sure how common they were compared to those in your 
list.

Cheers

Tim Gillett
Perth,
Western Australia

 Doug Pomeroy
Audio Restoration and Mastering Services
193 Baltic St   
Brooklyn, NY  11201-6173
(718) 855-2650
[log in to unmask]

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: ARSCLIST automatic digest system <[log in to unmask]>
To: ARSCLIST <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Sat, Sep 2, 2017 12:01 am
Subject: ARSCLIST Digest - 31 Aug 2017 to 1 Sep 2017 (#2017-154)

There are 7 messages totaling 611 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

 1. September Issue of Black Grooves
  2. ARSC Media and Publications Database is offline
  3. Cassette repair question- a question of semantics concerning sticky shed?
  4. a question of semantics concerning sticky shed? (2)
  5. Major tape recorder brands (2)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2017 16:16:43 +0000
From:    "Nelson-Strauss, Brenda" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: September Issue of Black Grooves

The September 2017 issue of Black Grooves, sponsored by the Indiana University Archives of African American Music and Culture<http://www.indiana.edu/%7Eaaamc/>, is now available at www.blackgrooves.org<http://www.blackgrooves.org>

In honor of Hispanic Heritage Month, we're featuring Afro-Latin music including the Arturo O'Farrill & Chucho Valdés collaboration on Familia Tribute to Bebo & Chico<http://blackgrooves.org/?p=17636&preview=true>, Aruan Ortiz's solo piano album Cub(an)ism<http://blackgrooves.org/?p=17643&preview=true>, Chicago band Esso! Afrojam Funkbeat's sophomore release Juntos<http://blackgrooves.org/?p=17673&preview=true>, the Afro-Venezuelan group Betsayda Machado & La Parranda El Clavo's debut Loé Loá: Rural Recordings Under the Mango Tree<http://blackgrooves.org/?p=17669&preview=true>, and the new anthology I Try<http://blackgrooves.org/angela-bofill-i-try-the-anthology-1978-1993/> devoted to Angela Bofill, a Cuban American-Puerto Rican singer who successfully crossed over into R&B.

Jazz and fusion releases include the Liberation Music Collective's Rebel Portraiture<http://blackgrooves.org/the-liberation-music-collective-rebel-portraiture/>, Ahmad Jamal's Marseille<http://blackgrooves.org/ahmad-jamal-marseille/>, a 1982 concert led by Jaco Pastorius on Truth, Liberty & Soul<http://blackgrooves.org/two-live-releases-from-resonance-records-the-three-sounds-jaco-pastorius/>, The Three Sounds' Groovin' Hard: Live at the Penthouse<http://blackgrooves.org/two-live-releases-from-resonance-records-the-three-sounds-jaco-pastorius/> from a 1960's concert, Minneapolis band Nooky Jones<http://blackgrooves.org/nooky-jones-nooky-jones/>'s self-titled debut, and Mindi Adair & the Boneshakers' first studio recording The Eastwest Sessions<http://blackgrooves.org/?p=17730&preview=true>.

Funk, rock, rap and soul releases include Starchild Jr.'s (aka Garret Shider) P-funk tribute to his father on Hand Me Down Diapers<http://blackgrooves.org/?p=17633&preview=true>, Living Colour's Shade<http://blackgrooves.org/?p=17724&preview=true>, Big Boi's Boomiverse<http://blackgrooves.org/big-boi-boomiverse/>, and Goapele's EP Dreamseeker<http://blackgrooves.org/goapele-dreamseekers/>.

Wrapping up this issue is our listing of August 2017 Releases of Note<http://blackgrooves.org/august-releases-of-note/>.
**We're seeking volunteer reviewers for fall semester - please email me at the address below for details.

Brenda Nelson-Strauss
Editor, Black Grooves
Archives of African American Music & Culture
Indiana University
2805 E. 10th Street, Suite 180
Bloomington, IN 47408
www.blackgrooves.org
[log in to unmask]

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2017 09:56:04 -0700
From:    Charles Reinsch <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: ARSC Media and Publications Database is offline

Does the draft RPTF/ARSC collections database also reside on this server?

Thanks,

-- 
Charles Reinsch
KRAB Archive: www.krabarchive.com


On 8/30/2017 2:25 PM, Nathan Georgitis wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> AMP!, ARSC's Media and Publications Database, is currently offline due to a server upgrade.
>
> We are working to restore service but it may take a while. Apologies for any inconvenience.
>
> Thanks for your patience.
>
> Nathan
>
> Nathan Georgitis
> Executive Director
> Association for Recorded Sound Collections
> 1299 University of Oregon
> Eugene, OR  97403-1299
> [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2017 13:27:32 -0400
From:    lists <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Cassette repair question- a question of semantics concerning sticky shed?

Pardon for the very late posting (have been massively busy with disaster
recovery projects) but the posting concerning "sticky shed" truly needs some
clarification as the way it is stated is very misleading.

Sticky shed is caused by binder hydrolysis.  This is indeed a function of
chemistry- but the chemistry involved is the interaction of water (often
absorbed from humid air) with the long-chain polymers in the tape resulting
in the polymers breaking down into short-chain, low-molecular-weight
oligomers.

While this is a chemical reaction, the reaction is very dependent on the
moisture content of the air in the environment in which the tapes are
stored.  The assertion that " they return to the sticky state eventually,
even in perfect storage" is not correct.  Should this happen, they have not
been placed in "perfect storage".  It has, in fact, been proven that
"sticky" tapes (without baking) will become less sticky if stored in stable,
low-RH environments.  If you store polyester-base tapes in an environment of
approximately 68 degrees and an RH of 20% or less, within a year, most (some
take longer) sticky tapes are no longer sticky and further testing 2, 3 and
5 years down the road, show that the tapes continue not to exhibit "sticky
shed".  As such, the "perfect storage" referred to in the earlier post is
not actually "perfect" storage for polyester-base magnetic tapes.

Another issue could be the method used for "baking" and how soon the tapes
are tested after they have been returned to storage.  Many people perform
short-term baking.  The issue with this is how hydrolysis affects the tape.
When hydrolysis occurs, polymers in the tape matrix as well as polymers on
the tape surface are effected.  The oligomer residue created inside the tape
matrix may partially migrate to the tape surface.  Heating the tape during
short-term baking primarily causes some of the oligomer residue to be
re-absorbed into the tape matrix leaving less on the surface and making the
tape, temporarily, playable.  It has little effect on the oligomers other
than their absorption into the tape and away from the surface.  As soon as
the tape begins to cool, these oligomers (slowly) start to migrate back to
the surface again.  This is one of the reasons that individuals who do
short-term baking state that you must play back the tape as soon after
baking as possible.  More sustained treatment (whether by "baking" or
exposure to very low RH environments or a vacuum) actually forces
cross-linking of the oligomer residue back into polymers.  As such, there is
no great abundance of oligomer residue to migrate back to the surface and
the tapes (so long as they are not exposed to elevated humidity) remain
playable for an extended time.

This is likely more information about the subject than most people really
want to know but to state that "sticky shed" is not a function of "storage"
is extremely misleading.

Just as background, I was one of the primary authors of the National and
International Standards about magnetic tape storage and magnetic tape
handling  published by ANSI, AES and the ISO.


Peter Brothers
SPECS BROS., LLC
973-777-5055
[log in to unmask]
Audio and video restoration and re-mastering since 1983


  

-----Original Message-----
From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Lou Judson
Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2017 11:44 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Cassette repair question

I believe it has been more or less proven that sticky shed is a function of
chemistry, not storage, as even after baking they return to the sticky state
eventually, even in perfect storage.

<L>
Lou Judson
Intuitive Audio
415-883-2689

On Jun 29, 2017, at 5:11 AM, Steve Greene <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> But bear in mind, the loss of the felt suggests that the tape probably 
> wasn't stored in the best conditions, be concerned about sticky-shed, 
> or other binder problems in your future.

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 1 Sep 2017 10:40:47 -0700
From:    Lou Judson <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: a question of semantics concerning sticky shed?

This is quite a wordy explanation, and I do not doubt or argue with it. My only interest is in recovering tapes people bring me to transfer, and so far have had excellent success, baking 8 - 10 hours, cooling the some amount of time, and playing them then. I have not examined them later, the storage comment was third-hand anecdotal, not personal or scientific.

But - can you please specify what you mean by “Short-term baking?” and is long-term better? How short, how long and what temperatures? Also, what do you recommend for long term storage after the treatment?

Thanks. Peter.
<L>
Lou Judson
Intuitive Audio
415-883-2689

On Sep 1, 2017, at 10:27 AM, lists <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> Pardon for the very late posting (have been massively busy with disaster
> recovery projects) but the posting concerning "sticky shed" truly needs some
> clarification as the way it is stated is very misleading.
> 
> Sticky shed is caused by binder hydrolysis.  This is indeed a function of
> chemistry- but the chemistry involved is the interaction of water (often
> absorbed from humid air) with the long-chain polymers in the tape resulting
> in the polymers breaking down into short-chain, low-molecular-weight
> oligomers.
> 
> While this is a chemical reaction, the reaction is very dependent on the
> moisture content of the air in the environment in which the tapes are
> stored.  The assertion that " they return to the sticky state eventually,
> even in perfect storage" is not correct.  Should this happen, they have not
> been placed in "perfect storage".  It has, in fact, been proven that
> "sticky" tapes (without baking) will become less sticky if stored in stable,
> low-RH environments.  If you store polyester-base tapes in an environment of
> approximately 68 degrees and an RH of 20% or less, within a year, most (some
> take longer) sticky tapes are no longer sticky and further testing 2, 3 and
> 5 years down the road, show that the tapes continue not to exhibit "sticky
> shed".  As such, the "perfect storage" referred to in the earlier post is
> not actually "perfect" storage for polyester-base magnetic tapes.
> 
> Another issue could be the method used for "baking" and how soon the tapes
> are tested after they have been returned to storage.  Many people perform
> short-term baking.  The issue with this is how hydrolysis affects the tape.
> When hydrolysis occurs, polymers in the tape matrix as well as polymers on
> the tape surface are effected.  The oligomer residue created inside the tape
> matrix may partially migrate to the tape surface.  Heating the tape during
> short-term baking primarily causes some of the oligomer residue to be
> re-absorbed into the tape matrix leaving less on the surface and making the
> tape, temporarily, playable.  It has little effect on the oligomers other
> than their absorption into the tape and away from the surface.  As soon as
> the tape begins to cool, these oligomers (slowly) start to migrate back to
> the surface again.  This is one of the reasons that individuals who do
> short-term baking state that you must play back the tape as soon after
> baking as possible.  More sustained treatment (whether by "baking" or
> exposure to very low RH environments or a vacuum) actually forces
> cross-linking of the oligomer residue back into polymers.  As such, there is
> no great abundance of oligomer residue to migrate back to the surface and
> the tapes (so long as they are not exposed to elevated humidity) remain
> playable for an extended time.
> 
> This is likely more information about the subject than most people really
> want to know but to state that "sticky shed" is not a function of "storage"
> is extremely misleading.
> 
> Just as background, I was one of the primary authors of the National and
> International Standards about magnetic tape storage and magnetic tape
> handling  published by ANSI, AES and the ISO.
> 
> 
> Peter Brothers
> SPECS BROS., LLC
> 973-777-5055
> [log in to unmask]
> Audio and video restoration and re-mastering since 1983
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Lou Judson
> Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2017 11:44 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Cassette repair question
> 
> I believe it has been more or less proven that sticky shed is a function of
> chemistry, not storage, as even after baking they return to the sticky state
> eventually, even in perfect storage.
> 
> <L>
> Lou Judson
> Intuitive Audio
> 415-883-2689
> 
> On Jun 29, 2017, at 5:11 AM, Steve Greene <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> 
>> But bear in mind, the loss of the felt suggests that the tape probably 
>> wasn't stored in the best conditions, be concerned about sticky-shed, 
>> or other binder problems in your future.
> 

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 1 Sep 2017 14:02:21 -0400
From:    "Richard L. Hess" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: a question of semantics concerning sticky shed?

Lou,

What Peter wrote is key to understanding sticky-shed. My chemist mentor, 
Ric Bradshaw, formerly chief chemist at IBM tape division, suggests that 
the original matrix is never recreated by baking so the repolymerized 
longer chains are not as long as the original chains, but no longer 
short enough to be sticky.

A few years ago, I visited the Library of Congress and happened to 
mention that I was baking tapes for two days (1/4 and 1/2 inch, mostly).

The people I met with wanted to know more. They bake for about eight 
hours and have good results. I rarely achieve my goals with that short 
of a baking cycle.

LoC confirmed they were transferring their "captive" tapes which had 
spent some time in their controlled storage.

I receive tapes from "the wild" and often they have been miserably 
stored. There is a lot of humidity in many parts of North America.

Stuart Rohre bakes tapes 30 days now. these are 15-inch windowless glass 
reels of 1-inch instrumentation tape which had been sent to sea in a 
buoy to record a string of hydrophones. The machines were exposed to the 
sea atmosphere just prior to launch. He can make a full pass on one of 
these reels after the 30-day baking. So, to me, that seems to indicate 
that those of us who bake two days still have some "headroom" left 
before things get really bad.

I rarely go back and re-transfer tapes that I've baked, and if I do, 
it's within a few weeks, usually (to see if I can improve a specific 
aspect of a transfer).

If I have NR encoded tapes, I save both a raw and decoded version so I 
don't have to go back to try and correct NR anomalies. In fact, I 
provide both to the client. I started doing that on a 16T 1/2-inch tape 
that had some tracks recorded with NR and some not and no documentation 
as to which was which, and it was "new" music, so I just sent both sets 
to the composer and said (nicely), "you figure it out." He was ecstatic 
as the original machine when they did the analog mix would not allow 
them track-selective NR switching.

Cheers,

Richard




On 2017-09-01 1:40 PM, Lou Judson wrote:
> This is quite a wordy explanation, and I do not doubt or argue with it. My only interest is in recovering tapes people bring me to transfer, and so far have had excellent success, baking 8 - 10 hours, cooling the some amount of time, and playing them then. I have not examined them later, the storage comment was third-hand anecdotal, not personal or scientific.
> 
> But - can you please specify what you mean by “Short-term baking?” and is long-term better? How short, how long and what temperatures? Also, what do you recommend for long term storage after the treatment?
> 
> Thanks. Peter.
> <L>
> Lou Judson
> Intuitive Audio
> 415-883-2689
> 
> On Sep 1, 2017, at 10:27 AM, lists <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> 
>> Pardon for the very late posting (have been massively busy with disaster
>> recovery projects) but the posting concerning "sticky shed" truly needs some
>> clarification as the way it is stated is very misleading.
>>
>> Sticky shed is caused by binder hydrolysis.  This is indeed a function of
>> chemistry- but the chemistry involved is the interaction of water (often
>> absorbed from humid air) with the long-chain polymers in the tape resulting
>> in the polymers breaking down into short-chain, low-molecular-weight
>> oligomers.
>>
>> While this is a chemical reaction, the reaction is very dependent on the
>> moisture content of the air in the environment in which the tapes are
>> stored.  The assertion that " they return to the sticky state eventually,
>> even in perfect storage" is not correct.  Should this happen, they have not
>> been placed in "perfect storage".  It has, in fact, been proven that
>> "sticky" tapes (without baking) will become less sticky if stored in stable,
>> low-RH environments.  If you store polyester-base tapes in an environment of
>> approximately 68 degrees and an RH of 20% or less, within a year, most (some
>> take longer) sticky tapes are no longer sticky and further testing 2, 3 and
>> 5 years down the road, show that the tapes continue not to exhibit "sticky
>> shed".  As such, the "perfect storage" referred to in the earlier post is
>> not actually "perfect" storage for polyester-base magnetic tapes.
>>
>> Another issue could be the method used for "baking" and how soon the tapes
>> are tested after they have been returned to storage.  Many people perform
>> short-term baking.  The issue with this is how hydrolysis affects the tape.
>> When hydrolysis occurs, polymers in the tape matrix as well as polymers on
>> the tape surface are effected.  The oligomer residue created inside the tape
>> matrix may partially migrate to the tape surface.  Heating the tape during
>> short-term baking primarily causes some of the oligomer residue to be
>> re-absorbed into the tape matrix leaving less on the surface and making the
>> tape, temporarily, playable.  It has little effect on the oligomers other
>> than their absorption into the tape and away from the surface.  As soon as
>> the tape begins to cool, these oligomers (slowly) start to migrate back to
>> the surface again.  This is one of the reasons that individuals who do
>> short-term baking state that you must play back the tape as soon after
>> baking as possible.  More sustained treatment (whether by "baking" or
>> exposure to very low RH environments or a vacuum) actually forces
>> cross-linking of the oligomer residue back into polymers.  As such, there is
>> no great abundance of oligomer residue to migrate back to the surface and
>> the tapes (so long as they are not exposed to elevated humidity) remain
>> playable for an extended time.
>>
>> This is likely more information about the subject than most people really
>> want to know but to state that "sticky shed" is not a function of "storage"
>> is extremely misleading.
>>
>> Just as background, I was one of the primary authors of the National and
>> International Standards about magnetic tape storage and magnetic tape
>> handling  published by ANSI, AES and the ISO.
>>
>>
>> Peter Brothers
>> SPECS BROS., LLC
>> 973-777-5055
>> [log in to unmask]
>> Audio and video restoration and re-mastering since 1983
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List
>> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Lou Judson
>> Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2017 11:44 AM
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Cassette repair question
>>
>> I believe it has been more or less proven that sticky shed is a function of
>> chemistry, not storage, as even after baking they return to the sticky state
>> eventually, even in perfect storage.
>>
>> <L>
>> Lou Judson
>> Intuitive Audio
>> 415-883-2689
>>
>> On Jun 29, 2017, at 5:11 AM, Steve Greene <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>
>>> But bear in mind, the loss of the felt suggests that the tape probably
>>> wasn't stored in the best conditions, be concerned about sticky-shed,
>>> or other binder problems in your future.
>>
> 
-- 
Richard L. Hess                   email: [log in to unmask]
Aurora, Ontario, Canada                             647 479 2800
http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm
Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes.

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 1 Sep 2017 21:08:01 -0500
From:    Paul Stamler <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Major tape recorder brands

Hi folks:

I'm working on an article about studio tape recorders, and have made a 
tentative list of the major brands that were important in the analog 
era. Here's my first draft -- I have some specific model numbers, 
because it strikes me that, for example, the Otari MTR-10 and MTR-12 are 
in a different category from the 5050. I've put an asterisk by brands or 
models that were mostly produced in consumer format (7.5/3.75 ips, 
quarter track) as well as pro (15 or 30 ips, half or full track):

Revox A77*
Otari 5050
Ampex AG440 series
Other Ampex decks (e.g., 300, 350)
MCI (later acquired & marketed by Sony)
Scully
Revox PR99(/B77*)
Studer
Otari MTR series
Ampex ATR-100
Nagra
Tascam (which developed from Teac, which mostly made consumer decks*)

Have I left out anyone important? My back-brain thinks I have. I'm 
wondering if Magnecords saw enough recording studio use to count, and 
likewise Crowns -- I always had the impression that there were few 
Crowns owned by pro recording outfits.

Please let me know if there are important players I've forgotten -- 
thanks! Again, I'm interested in pro decks that were commonly used in 
recording studios.

Peace,
Paul

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2017 11:37:39 +0800
From:    Tim Gillett <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Major tape recorder brands

Paul,

3M machines but not sure how common they were compared to those in your 
list.

Cheers

Tim Gillett
Perth,
Western Australia


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Paul Stamler" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2017 10:08 AM
Subject: [ARSCLIST] Major tape recorder brands


> Hi folks:
>
> I'm working on an article about studio tape recorders, and have made a 
> tentative list of the major brands that were important in the analog era. 
> Here's my first draft -- I have some specific model numbers, because it 
> strikes me that, for example, the Otari MTR-10 and MTR-12 are in a 
> different category from the 5050. I've put an asterisk by brands or models 
> that were mostly produced in consumer format (7.5/3.75 ips, quarter track) 
> as well as pro (15 or 30 ips, half or full track):
>
> Revox A77*
> Otari 5050
> Ampex AG440 series
> Other Ampex decks (e.g., 300, 350)
> MCI (later acquired & marketed by Sony)
> Scully
> Revox PR99(/B77*)
> Studer
> Otari MTR series
> Ampex ATR-100
> Nagra
> Tascam (which developed from Teac, which mostly made consumer decks*)
>
> Have I left out anyone important? My back-brain thinks I have. I'm 
> wondering if Magnecords saw enough recording studio use to count, and 
> likewise Crowns -- I always had the impression that there were few Crowns 
> owned by pro recording outfits.
>
> Please let me know if there are important players I've forgotten -- 
> thanks! Again, I'm interested in pro decks that were commonly used in 
> recording studios.
>
> Peace,
> Paul
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus 

------------------------------

End of ARSCLIST Digest - 31 Aug 2017 to 1 Sep 2017 (#2017-154)
**************************************************************

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