The weight driven lathe that Nick Bergh resurrected for American Epic had a
centrifugal weight/leather band speed governor, which worked fairly well
but is certainly not 100% perfect. It also had a strobe, but that would've
required a stable 60 Hz light source, and the power frequency fluctuated
quite a lot back then (still does!), and for field recordings using battery
power, no 60 Hz light source was available. So I can see why the speed
wasn't always spot on.
Ellis Burman
www.audiomechanics.com
On Mon, Jan 22, 2018 at 7:16 PM, John Schroth <[log in to unmask]>
wrote:
> Steinberg's Wavelab has this capability too. It offers very sophisticated
> pitch correction with fully customizable correction curves that I have used
> for quite a few years now. The only downside - processing is somewhat slow.
> From what I am told by technical support, this is in exchange for excellent
> quality/accuracy.
>
> John Schroth
>
> MTS
>
>
>
> On 1/22/2018 7:40 PM, Richard L. Hess wrote:
>
>> There are three good approaches to this type of correction that I have.
>>
>> iZotope and Samplitude allow you to create a stepwise approximation of
>> the pitch changes, and then flow from one to the other. iZotope adds the
>> feature that you can "smooth" the curve.
>>
>> The older Diamond Cut software had an interesting spline curve system to
>> make non-linear changes. I'm not certain where that came from, but it is a
>> different approach and the software is not terribly expensive. I think
>> they're still around.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Richard
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2018-01-22 6:38 PM, Tim Gillett wrote:
>>
>>> Then there's the problem of rotational speed changing between outer to
>>> inner grooves. It's harder for the disc cutter to maintain a constant
>>> rotational speed when cutting the outer grooves than the inner. It requires
>>> more torque cutting the outer groves. So typically the playback will start
>>> at one pitch and appear to lower in pitch (slow down) towards the inner
>>> grooves. I dont know how common this problem was in disc cutting in that
>>> era but I've observed it ocasionally repairing an old wind up acoustic
>>> gramophone. Of course it's harder to correct for such an error but I'd
>>> imagine today a product like Celemony Capstan or the equivalent Cedar
>>> product would make it a lot easier, though strictly they appear to be
>>> designed to correct wow and flutter. Others with experience with these
>>> tools will know more.
>>>
>>> Tim
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Haley" <[log in to unmask]>
>>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2018 6:21 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Recording Process in 1920s
>>>
>>>
>>> The easiest way I have ever found to determine the pitch of a recording
>>>> and
>>>> adjust it correctly is this. Just play along with the recording on an
>>>> electronic keyboard such as the Yamaha one I use, which has absolutely
>>>> perfect pitch--it reads "top dead center" on a Korg tuner. This will
>>>> tell
>>>> you instantly if the recording if at the same pitch, or higher or lower,
>>>> and you can easily hear very, very small pitch errors this way--they
>>>> become
>>>> quite apparent--way easier than trying to remember a pitch mentally.
>>>> Obviously I am just playing tunes and sometimes harmonies, not the whole
>>>> thing, and I am not making any effort to play anything well. This takes
>>>> hardly any keyboard skill, and it is far easier for me to hear what is
>>>> going on this way than using a Korg guitar tuner (which is itself way
>>>> better than nothing). Getting pitch right used to be such a
>>>> headache--now
>>>> it's a snap. I can do it in seconds. Such an electronic keyboard costs
>>>> something like $100.
>>>>
>>>> Plus, the keyboard is easily adjustable to other pitches--for instance,
>>>> where we know that an orchestra tunes to A = 442 or some other A besides
>>>> 440.
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>> John
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Jan 22, 2018 at 4:28 PM, George Brock-Nannestad <
>>>> [log in to unmask]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> From: Patent Tactics, George Brock-Nannestad
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hello, Terri and all,
>>>>>
>>>>> the question, as I read it, is not entirely clear to me. What is meant
>>>>> by
>>>>> "recordings in the 1920s were transferred to disc"? Would that indicate
>>>>> that
>>>>> recordings on cylinders -- a standard format in ethnomusicology until
>>>>> about
>>>>> 1940 -- would have been transferred to disc in the 1920s, OR that
>>>>> recordings
>>>>> from the 1920s (still on cylinders) have been transferred to LP (from
>>>>> the
>>>>> 1950s) or CD (from about 1985)? This involves two stages of recording:
>>>>> 1st
>>>>> on
>>>>> cylinder, and 2nd onto the next medium, playing the cylinder. There may
>>>>> certainly be problems in the transfer from cylinder to next medium. The
>>>>> early
>>>>> ethnomusicologists (from the time the field was called "comparative
>>>>> musicology") knew this, and this is why they frequently sounded a pitch
>>>>> pipe
>>>>> before each take. If this pitch is reproduced correctly in the next
>>>>> medium, the
>>>>> whole recording is correct as concerns pitch.
>>>>>
>>>>> Most commenters have talked about disc recording, but these did not
>>>>> become
>>>>> really important for ethnomusicological sound collection before the
>>>>> 1930s
>>>>> (John
>>>>> Lomax and Laura Boulton were typical representatives). The Library of
>>>>> Congress
>>>>> started transferring their Densmore cylinders to 78 rpm vinyl discs in
>>>>> the
>>>>> 1940s.
>>>>>
>>>>> I am worried about the 1938 Presto lathe that apparently cuts 7% slow
>>>>> with
>>>>> the
>>>>> cutter on the virgin disc. This how I interpret that the playback of
>>>>> the
>>>>> record
>>>>> just cut is 7% sharp, all provided that the Presto turntable is used
>>>>> with a
>>>>> pickup-arm for reproducing the disc just cut. And this would indicate
>>>>> an
>>>>> underpowered motor. Otherwise the reason could be that the speed of the
>>>>> reproducing turntable is too fast.
>>>>>
>>>>> Concerning discs I agree completely with John Haley at Mon, 22 Jan 2018
>>>>> 11:57:30. And I have used the approach recommended by Steve Smolian
>>>>> since
>>>>> 1981,
>>>>> and I am on my 4th Korg right now, although it is called a Chromatic
>>>>> Tuner
>>>>> with
>>>>> no string preferences. If you would like to know more about my version
>>>>> of
>>>>> this
>>>>> approach, Google will show the way.
>>>>>
>>>>> If someone is interested in digging deeper into acoustic recording as
>>>>> performed
>>>>> at the Victor Talking Machine Company and the Gramophone Company up to
>>>>> 1925, I
>>>>> would recommend my AES Conference Preprint from 1997:
>>>>> "The Objective Basis for the Production of High Quality Transfers from
>>>>> Pre-1925
>>>>> Sound Recordings", AES Preprint No. 4610, 103nd Convention 1997
>>>>> September
>>>>> 26-29, New York. This is free in electronic form to members of the
>>>>> Audio
>>>>> Engineering Society. I have noticed that it is being cited quite
>>>>> frequently in
>>>>> later years.
>>>>>
>>>>> I would be happy to provide greater detail, but in that case perhaps an
>>>>> off-list exchange would offend the fewest people.
>>>>>
>>>>> Kind regards,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> George
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -------------------------------------
>>>>> From: Terri Brinegar <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>>>> Subject: [ARSCLIST] Recording Process in 1920s
>>>>> Date sent: Mon, 22 Jan 2018 11:09:06 -0500
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> > Hello All,
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Can anyone tell me if recordings in the 1920s were transferred to
>>>>> disc > at
>>>>> > exactly the same speed as they were recorded? In other words, if >
>>>>> someone
>>>>> is
>>>>> > singing an "F" pitch on the recording, is that the actual pitch sung
>>>>> or
>>>>> > could the engineer possibly speed it up somehow, thus raising the >
>>>>> pitch?
>>>>> Not
>>>>> > sure if that was possible back then.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Thank you!
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Terri Brinegar
>>>>> > PhD Candidate in Ethnomusicology
>>>>> > University of Florida
>>>>> > [log in to unmask]
>>>>> > [log in to unmask]
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>> ---
>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>>>
>>>
--
Ellis
[log in to unmask]
818-846-5525
|
