LISTSERV mailing list manager LISTSERV 16.0

Help for ARSCLIST Archives


ARSCLIST Archives

ARSCLIST Archives


[email protected]


View:

Message:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Topic:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Author:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

Font:

Proportional Font

LISTSERV Archives

LISTSERV Archives

ARSCLIST Home

ARSCLIST Home

ARSCLIST  January 2018

ARSCLIST January 2018

Subject:

Re: Recording Process in 1920s

From:

"Richard L. Hess" <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Mon, 22 Jan 2018 19:40:16 -0500

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (199 lines)

There are three good approaches to this type of correction that I have.

iZotope and Samplitude allow you to create a stepwise approximation of 
the pitch changes, and then flow from one to the other. iZotope adds the 
feature that you can "smooth" the curve.

The older Diamond Cut software had an interesting spline curve system to 
make non-linear changes. I'm not certain where that came from, but it is 
a different approach and the software is not terribly expensive. I think 
they're still around.

Cheers,

Richard




On 2018-01-22 6:38 PM, Tim Gillett wrote:
> Then there's the problem of rotational speed changing between outer to 
> inner grooves. It's harder for the disc cutter to maintain a constant 
> rotational speed when cutting the outer grooves than the inner. It 
> requires more torque cutting the outer groves. So typically the playback 
> will start at one pitch and appear to lower in pitch (slow down) towards 
> the inner grooves. I dont know how common this  problem was in disc 
> cutting in that era but I've observed it ocasionally repairing an old 
> wind up acoustic gramophone. Of course it's harder to correct for such 
> an error but I'd imagine today a product like Celemony Capstan or the 
> equivalent Cedar product would make it a lot easier, though strictly 
> they appear to be designed to correct wow and flutter. Others with 
> experience with these tools will know more.
> 
> Tim
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Haley" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2018 6:21 AM
> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Recording Process in 1920s
> 
> 
>> The easiest way I have ever found to determine the pitch of a 
>> recording and
>> adjust it correctly is this.  Just play along with the recording on an
>> electronic keyboard such as the Yamaha one I use, which has absolutely
>> perfect pitch--it reads "top dead center" on a Korg tuner.  This will 
>> tell
>> you instantly if the recording if at the same pitch, or higher or lower,
>> and you can easily hear very, very small pitch errors this way--they 
>> become
>> quite apparent--way easier than trying to remember a pitch mentally.
>> Obviously I am just playing tunes and sometimes harmonies, not the whole
>> thing, and I am not making any effort to play anything well.  This takes
>> hardly any keyboard skill, and it is far easier for me to hear what is
>> going on this way than using a Korg guitar tuner (which is itself way
>> better than nothing).  Getting pitch right used to be such a 
>> headache--now
>> it's a snap.  I can do it in seconds.  Such an electronic keyboard costs
>> something like $100.
>>
>> Plus, the keyboard is easily adjustable to other pitches--for instance,
>> where we know that an orchestra tunes to A = 442 or some other A besides
>> 440.
>>
>> Best,
>> John
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 22, 2018 at 4:28 PM, George Brock-Nannestad <[log in to unmask]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> From: Patent Tactics, George Brock-Nannestad
>>>
>>>
>>> Hello, Terri and all,
>>>
>>> the question, as I read it, is not entirely clear to me. What is 
>>> meant by
>>> "recordings in the 1920s were transferred to disc"? Would that indicate
>>> that
>>> recordings on cylinders -- a standard format in ethnomusicology until 
>>> about
>>> 1940 -- would have been transferred to disc in the 1920s, OR that
>>> recordings
>>> from the 1920s (still on cylinders) have been transferred to LP (from 
>>> the
>>> 1950s) or CD (from about 1985)? This involves two stages of 
>>> recording: 1st
>>> on
>>> cylinder, and 2nd onto the next medium, playing the cylinder. There may
>>> certainly be problems in the transfer from cylinder to next medium. The
>>> early
>>> ethnomusicologists (from the time the field was called "comparative
>>> musicology") knew this, and this is why they frequently sounded a pitch
>>> pipe
>>> before each take. If this pitch is reproduced correctly in the next
>>> medium, the
>>> whole recording is correct as concerns pitch.
>>>
>>> Most commenters have talked about disc recording, but these did not 
>>> become
>>> really important for ethnomusicological sound collection before the 
>>> 1930s
>>> (John
>>> Lomax and Laura Boulton were typical representatives). The Library of
>>> Congress
>>> started transferring their Densmore cylinders to 78 rpm vinyl discs 
>>> in the
>>> 1940s.
>>>
>>> I am worried about the 1938 Presto lathe that apparently cuts 7% slow 
>>> with
>>> the
>>> cutter on the virgin disc. This how I interpret that the playback of the
>>> record
>>> just cut is 7% sharp, all provided that the Presto turntable is used 
>>> with a
>>> pickup-arm for reproducing the disc just cut. And this would indicate an
>>> underpowered motor. Otherwise the reason could be that the speed of the
>>> reproducing turntable is too fast.
>>>
>>> Concerning discs I agree completely with John Haley at Mon, 22 Jan 2018
>>> 11:57:30. And I have used the approach recommended by Steve Smolian 
>>> since
>>> 1981,
>>> and I am on my 4th Korg right now, although it is called a Chromatic 
>>> Tuner
>>> with
>>> no string preferences. If you would like to know more about my 
>>> version of
>>> this
>>> approach, Google will show the way.
>>>
>>> If someone is interested in digging deeper into acoustic recording as
>>> performed
>>> at the Victor Talking Machine Company and the Gramophone Company up to
>>> 1925, I
>>> would recommend my AES Conference Preprint from 1997:
>>> "The Objective Basis for the Production of High Quality Transfers from
>>> Pre-1925
>>> Sound Recordings", AES Preprint No. 4610, 103nd Convention 1997 
>>> September
>>> 26-29, New York. This is free in electronic form to members of the Audio
>>> Engineering Society. I have noticed that it is being cited quite
>>> frequently in
>>> later years.
>>>
>>> I would be happy to provide greater detail, but in that case perhaps an
>>> off-list exchange would offend the fewest people.
>>>
>>> Kind regards,
>>>
>>>
>>> George
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -------------------------------------
>>> From:   Terri Brinegar <[log in to unmask]>
>>> To:     [log in to unmask]
>>> Subject:        [ARSCLIST] Recording Process in 1920s
>>> Date sent:      Mon, 22 Jan 2018 11:09:06 -0500
>>>
>>>
>>> > Hello All,
>>> >
>>> > Can anyone tell me if recordings in the 1920s were transferred to 
>>> disc > at
>>> > exactly the same speed as they were recorded? In other words, if > 
>>> someone
>>> is
>>> > singing an "F" pitch on the recording, is that the actual pitch 
>>> sung or
>>> > could the engineer possibly speed it up somehow, thus raising the > 
>>> pitch?
>>> Not
>>> > sure if that was possible back then.
>>> >
>>> > Thank you!
>>> >
>>> > Terri Brinegar
>>> > PhD Candidate in Ethnomusicology
>>> > University of Florida
>>> > [log in to unmask]
>>> > [log in to unmask]
>>>
> 
> 
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> 
-- 
Richard L. Hess                   email: [log in to unmask]
Aurora, Ontario, Canada                             647 479 2800
http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm
Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes.

Top of Message | Previous Page | Permalink

Advanced Options


Options

Log In

Log In

Get Password

Get Password


Search Archives

Search Archives


Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Subscribe or Unsubscribe


Archives

March 2024
February 2024
January 2024
December 2023
November 2023
October 2023
September 2023
August 2023
July 2023
June 2023
May 2023
April 2023
March 2023
February 2023
January 2023
December 2022
November 2022
October 2022
September 2022
August 2022
July 2022
June 2022
May 2022
April 2022
March 2022
February 2022
January 2022
December 2021
November 2021
October 2021
September 2021
August 2021
July 2021
June 2021
May 2021
April 2021
March 2021
February 2021
January 2021
December 2020
November 2020
October 2020
September 2020
August 2020
July 2020
June 2020
May 2020
April 2020
March 2020
February 2020
January 2020
December 2019
November 2019
October 2019
September 2019
August 2019
July 2019
June 2019
May 2019
April 2019
March 2019
February 2019
January 2019
December 2018
November 2018
October 2018
September 2018
August 2018
July 2018
June 2018
May 2018
April 2018
March 2018
February 2018
January 2018
December 2017
November 2017
October 2017
September 2017
August 2017
July 2017
June 2017
May 2017
April 2017
March 2017
February 2017
January 2017
December 2016
November 2016
October 2016
September 2016
August 2016
July 2016
June 2016
May 2016
April 2016
March 2016
February 2016
January 2016
December 2015
November 2015
October 2015
September 2015
August 2015
July 2015
June 2015
May 2015
April 2015
March 2015
February 2015
January 2015
December 2014
November 2014
October 2014
September 2014
August 2014
July 2014
June 2014
May 2014
April 2014
March 2014
February 2014
January 2014
December 2013
November 2013
October 2013
September 2013
August 2013
July 2013
June 2013
May 2013
April 2013
March 2013
February 2013
January 2013
December 2012
November 2012
October 2012
September 2012
August 2012
July 2012
June 2012
May 2012
April 2012
March 2012
February 2012
January 2012
December 2011
November 2011
October 2011
September 2011
August 2011
July 2011
June 2011
May 2011
April 2011
March 2011
February 2011
January 2011
December 2010
November 2010
October 2010
September 2010
August 2010
July 2010
June 2010
May 2010
April 2010
March 2010
February 2010
January 2010
December 2009
November 2009
October 2009
September 2009
August 2009
July 2009
June 2009
May 2009
April 2009
March 2009
February 2009
January 2009
December 2008
November 2008
October 2008
September 2008
August 2008
July 2008
June 2008
May 2008
April 2008
March 2008
February 2008
January 2008
December 2007
November 2007
October 2007
September 2007
August 2007
July 2007
June 2007
May 2007
April 2007
March 2007
February 2007
January 2007
December 2006
November 2006
October 2006
September 2006
August 2006
July 2006
June 2006
May 2006
April 2006
March 2006
February 2006
January 2006
December 2005
November 2005
October 2005
September 2005
August 2005
July 2005
June 2005
May 2005
April 2005
March 2005
February 2005
January 2005
December 2004
November 2004
October 2004
September 2004
August 2004
July 2004
June 2004
May 2004
April 2004
March 2004
February 2004
January 2004
December 2003
November 2003
October 2003
September 2003
August 2003
July 2003
June 2003
May 2003
April 2003
March 2003
February 2003
January 2003

ATOM RSS1 RSS2



LISTSERV.LOC.GOV

CataList Email List Search Powered by the LISTSERV Email List Manager