Were these gold on the underside?

Steve Smolian

-----Original Message-----
From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Bryan Martin
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2018 11:14 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] CD-R life

Faculty of Music concerts at UofT were archived on very expensive, archive-quality HHB discs from about 1999 to 2014. Around 2007 we discovered, quite by accident, that some of these were failing within 6 months. That led to a massive push to rip the content from these discs. Some were recoverable only by doing a 1x speed transfer from a TASCAM CD-210 to an HHB CD-recorder. Out of nearly 1000 recordings, several dozen were completely unrecoverable, and a few hundred were recovered but with noticeable damage to the audio. A lot of the discs had very pronounced clicking, which we found could be removed satisfactorily using declicking software. The primary lesson learned is that a manufacturer's reputation is not particularly trustworthy. When I reached out to HHB, I got a terse reply from a sales rep, and nothing but crickets thereafter.

We now archive digital recordings on a dedicated file server (for immediate access), a NAS box (as a backup), and to M-Disc DVDs, which have proved to be very robust so far.

As far as TY CD-Rs go, wasn't the main selling point that they burned essentially error-free? That's great, but I think experience teaches us that dye-based media can't be counted on for durability, regardless of who makes them.


Bryan Martin, MusBac, MA
Technical Supervisor
Music Library
University of Toronto
(416) 978-3739
https://music.library.utoronto.ca




-----Original Message-----
From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List <[log in to unmask]> On Behalf Of Steven Smolian
Sent: May 14, 2018 7:11 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] CD-R life

Not specifically, but there was no evasive words used.

Steve


-----Original Message-----
From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Eli Bildirici
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2018 6:43 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] CD-R life

Hahaha, I don't doubt. Do you remember what they said?

-------- Original Message --------
From: Steven Smolian <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2018 06:13 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] CD-R life

>Back in the day when I was on the AES committee creating the standards for testing CDs, I saw an outrageous claim by TY in a print ad. I contacted them and was told that they arrived at their figures by tweaking the testing parameters to give their product the best results. Exactly why we need standards.
>
>Steve Smolian
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List
>[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Eli Bildirici
>Sent: Monday, May 14, 2018 4:29 PM
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] CD-R life
>
>(IOW, in my initial post here, which I am now realizing you weren't
>responding to, I should have specified that TY's dye composition/mfr
>process lives on, somehow, under CMC. I realize now that the way I
>phrased it in my reply to you sounded ambiguous. Carry on)
>
>-------- Original Message --------
>From: Lou Judson <[log in to unmask]>
>Sent: Monday, May 14, 2018 04:12 PM
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] CD-R life
>
>>
>> Eli, are you saying geniune Japanese TY CDRs are still available? If so, where, or is it secret?
>>
>> <L>
>> Lou Judson
>> Intuitive Audio
>> 415-883-2689
>>
>> On May 14, 2018, at 12:42 PM, Eli Bildirici <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>
>> > I am aware, but iirc error tests with e.g. CD-DVD Speed show the CMC Mag disks are less robust than the Japanese manufactured ones, though the formula is the same. This may have affected long-term longevity somewhat too but it's only been a couple of years, so it's hard to know for sure. In any case the theme in this thread seems to be 'dye matters, and proper storage matters quite a lot as well'.
>> > I should have mentioned that they are still available though and are still probably your best bet.
>> >
>> > -------- Original Message --------
>> > From: Lou Judson <[log in to unmask]>
>> > Sent: Monday, May 14, 2018 03:33 PM
>> > To: [log in to unmask]
>> > Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] CD-R life
>> >
>> >>
>> >> TY formula still available:
>> >> <https://www.amazon.com/CMC-Pro-Powered-Technology-Watershield/dp/
>> >> B000LUC8WW>
>> >> <http://www.microboards.com/blank-media/cmc-pro-media/cmc-pro-cd-r
>> >> -media>
>> >> search for TY CDrs for more info.
>> >> I won’t use anything else, until forced to.
>> >> <L>
>>