Thanks to all for your help, we are now at 79:57. Those of you who get
our catalogs can expect a little bon-bon in the fall!
On 8/8/2018 9:57 AM, Gary A. Galo wrote:
> The issue that was raised by Randy Riddle regarding the 2-second gap between tracks should only be an issue if you're doing track-at-once burning. In other words, each track is saved as a separate file, and the burning software puts them together in the order they're numbered, and adds the default Red Book 2-seconds of silence between each track. Depending on the burning software, you may be able to defeat the 2-second gap and simply add the amount of silence you want at the end of each file (track).
> Professional editors do disc-at-once burning. The entire CD is assembled in one file and you simply put the amount of silence you want at the end of each track. Some will, by default, add the Red Book 2 seconds, but this can, and should, normally be defeated in the setup or preferences menus.
> In Sound Forge, you insert a marker at the beginning of each track, plus one at the very end of the file. Then, the markers are converted to regions - 1 region per track - and tracks are created from the regions. This way, you know exactly how long your disc will be, without having to add another 2 seconds for each track. Sound Forge supports the Red Book ability to have index points within tracks. After the markers have been converted to regions, you can add additional markers within each track to create the Red Book indices. But, it's been ages since any CD players have supported the access of indices between tracks, so putting them there is pointless.
> Remember that the Red Book CD mastering spec also includes 2 seconds of silence before the first track commences.
> I agree with the comments that have been made about keeping the total time to 79:58, and I would only add that this should include the 2 seconds before the first track.
> The Red Book time limit of just over 74 minutes is a very dated specification. No modern CD or multi-format player should have any problems playing an 80 minute disc, and if you keep the total time, including the 2 seconds before the first track, to 79:58, most modern duplicators shouldn't have a problem.
> I have a number of commercial CDs that exceed 80 minutes, and one that's around 81:30. My players don't have any problem with them. But, 80 minute CD-Rs are meant for no more than 80 minutes TOTAL. Don't try to push them beyond that limit.
> The 74+ minute time limit was related to the Red Book specification for the nominal spacing between the data spirals on the disc. As laser pickups got better, CD manufacturers pushed this to the edge of the tolerance and beyond, increasing the record/play time to 80 minutes or more. If you have an old player that won't track an 80-minute disc, it'd probably time for a new player.
> I would also add that you should never burn music CDs at the maximum possible speed. Each combination of CD-R brand and burner seems to have a sweet spot where the discs are burned with the lowest number of errors. For the Taiyo-Yuden/JVC CD-Rs I've found that the lowest number of errors occurs when they're burned in 12X in a CD burner, and 16X in a DVD burner. I've measured the errors with Nero DiscSpeed. My DiscMakers DVD duplicator came set to 16X for CD-Rs as default. Moving it in either direction made it worse - they got it right.
> Gary Galo
> Audio Engineer Emeritus
> The Crane School of Music
> SUNY at Potsdam, NY 13676
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Paul Stamler
> Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2018 1:03 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] CD capacity
> On 8/7/2018 10:06 PM, Kurt Nauck wrote:
>> The comments have been great. But they've left me with some questions.
>> I have 79:54 of material at this stage, which includes fade transitions,
>> but no actual intervals.
> There are probably a few seconds of silence at the end of each cut,
> which you might consider shopping.
>> The duplicator I spoke to told me that a full 80 min CD can lead to
>> problems in the duplication process - that the closer you get to the
>> middle, the greater the potential tracking problems. That comment was
>> the genesis of my question. Should I be concerned? Can this be mitigated
>> by a higher quality blank?
> First off, do remember that a CD plays from the inside out, so the
> problematic tracks would probably be at the end of the album.
>> I did consider running a compression in Audition as Lou suggested. But I
>> know that to shrink an image file by an odd figure can leave some
>> unpleasant artifacting, and I assume the same may be true for audio
>> files as well. If I bought myself 20 seconds by squeezing the tracks,
>> will that prove to be problematic? It probably would be for those with
>> perfect pitch!
> You can shorten them via resampling by a few percent while leaving the
> pitch as is -- Audition, for example, will let you do that. Thing is, it
> works best on 32-bit floating-point files, so for best results you'd
> need to shrink the files before they're dithere down to 16 bit.
>> If a person with an older player not designed to handle an 80 minute
>> disc attempts to play one, what would be the result? Would he not be
>> able to hear the beginning, the end, or would he just have tracking
>> problems throughout?
> I'd guess throughout; the way manufacturers get 80 minutes onto a disc
> is by departing from the usual intertrack* spacing. (*Yes, I know it's
> not really "intertrack", just as a 78 doesn't normally have "grooves" --
> just one groove per side. Whatever -- they make the disc with a
> non-standard spacing, so some players will gag all the way through as
> their servos fail to keep the laser properly focused. But I think
> players that won't play an 80-minute disc are pretty thin on the ground
> by now; correct me if I'm wrong.
> Paul Stamler
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