LISTSERV mailing list manager LISTSERV 16.0

Help for ARSCLIST Archives


ARSCLIST Archives

ARSCLIST Archives


ARSCLIST@LISTSERV.LOC.GOV


View:

Message:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Topic:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Author:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

Font:

Monospaced Font

LISTSERV Archives

LISTSERV Archives

ARSCLIST Home

ARSCLIST Home

ARSCLIST  September 2018

ARSCLIST September 2018

Subject:

Re: ARSCLIST Digest - 11 Sep 2018 to 12 Sep 2018 (#2018-202)

From:

Douglas Pomeroy <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Thu, 13 Sep 2018 09:58:56 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (1874 lines)

I am not on Facebook and Gary Galo expresses my view exactly.


Douglas Pomeroy
Audio Restoration and Mastering Services
193 Baltic St
Brooklyn, NY 11201-6173
(718) 855-2650
[log in to unmask]
Music Over Business
 
 


Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2018 00:30:54 +0000
From: "Gary A. Galo" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: ARSC Facebook Group?

I agree with Steve Smolian, and also share the concerns expressed by Peter Hirsch and others. Breaking ARSC discussions between this listserve and Facebook would be a very bad move, and counterproductive to the organization. On the other hand, if ARSC wishes to have a Facebook page to offer information on the organization's activities, and links to our web site, that's fine. I see this as possibly beneficial for recruiting new members. But don't start another discussion group there. And, don't do anything on Facebook that would require ARSC members to have a Facebook account in order to participate in any of the organization's activities.

I am not on Facebook and have no intention of ever being there.

Cheers,
Gary

____________________________

Gary Galo
Audio Engineer Emeritus
The Crane School of Music
SUNY at Potsdam, NY 13676

 

 



 

-----Original Message-----
From: ARSCLIST automatic digest system <[log in to unmask]>
To: ARSCLIST <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Thu, Sep 13, 2018 12:02 am
Subject: ARSCLIST Digest - 11 Sep 2018 to 12 Sep 2018 (#2018-202)

There are 43 messages totaling 2417 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. Lathe available
  2. ARSC Facebook Group? (35)
  3. Of possible interest?
  4. [EXT] Re: [ARSCLIST] ARSC Facebook Group? (6)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2018 10:12:51 -0400
From: Gary Gottlieb <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Lathe available

I received this message recently.

My mother passed and I found a 1960 (estimated date) Rek O Kut Vinyl
Cutting Lathe in perfect condition in her basement. The model # is Imp-2.
It comes in a very large suitcase and when I plugged it in, it came on.
What do you recommend that I do with it? Thank you for the recommendation.

The lathe is located in St. Paul, MN. Let me know if you are interested and
I'll send along the details.

Gary Gottlieb
Co-Chair, AES Historical Committee, DC Section Secretary, and Eastern
Region Vice President Elect, Audio Engineering Society
Executive Director,St. Louis Audio Project
http://stlaudio.org/
Author, Shaping Sound in the Studio and Beyond, Recording on the Go & How
Does It Sound Now? (Winner of the 2010 ARSC Award for Excellence in
Historical Recorded Sound Research)
http://stlaudio.org/gottlieb/

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2018 10:31:32 -0400
From: Mason Vander Lugt <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: ARSC Facebook Group?

Hi ARSC, the Online Media Committee is looking into the idea of creating a discussion group on Facebook, and would like your (ARSC member) input about the possibility. In short, a "Group", in Facebook terms, functions more like a web forum, and would not replace our existing Facebook "Page", which is designed more for ARSC to communicate with members and the public (but, to a lesser extent, supports user submissions).

For examples, you can look at existing Facebook groups for similar organizations:
AMIA (https://www.facebook.com/groups/76820094560)
IASA (https://www.facebook.com/groups/179371048900314)
AES (https://www.facebook.com/groups/AudioEngineeringSoc)

We have created an anonymous 5-question survey on Google forms, link below. Please take a moment to complete it to let us know how you feel about the idea. The OMC will discuss the results at our meeting later this month and will update here after we've had a chance to process results and weigh options. If you would like more information about what such a group would entail, feel free to write me and/or Andrew Hansbrough ([log in to unmask]).

https://goo.gl/forms/b78SSo8dKHGMvo9H2

Thank you,
Mason Vander Lugt and the Online Media Committee

P.S. if you are on Facebook but aren't yet following the official ARSC page, check it out! - https://www.facebook.com/arscaudio/

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2018 10:35:19 -0400
From: Ron Roscoe <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: ARSC Facebook Group?

Unable to add comments to the survey I just took. Something wrong.
Facebook is a time sink.
I have a life.
Very happy with the way things are now.
Ron Roscoe

-----Original Message-----
From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Mason Vander Lugt
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2018 10:32 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [ARSCLIST] ARSC Facebook Group?

Hi ARSC, the Online Media Committee is looking into the idea of creating a discussion group on Facebook, and would like your (ARSC member) input about the possibility. In short, a "Group", in Facebook terms, functions more like a web forum, and would not replace our existing Facebook "Page", which is designed more for ARSC to communicate with members and the public (but, to a lesser extent, supports user submissions).

For examples, you can look at existing Facebook groups for similar organizations:
AMIA (https://www.facebook.com/groups/76820094560)
IASA (https://www.facebook.com/groups/179371048900314)
AES (https://www.facebook.com/groups/AudioEngineeringSoc)

We have created an anonymous 5-question survey on Google forms, link below. Please take a moment to complete it to let us know how you feel about the idea. The OMC will discuss the results at our meeting later this month and will update here after we've had a chance to process results and weigh options. If you would like more information about what such a group would entail, feel free to write me and/or Andrew Hansbrough ([log in to unmask]).

https://goo.gl/forms/b78SSo8dKHGMvo9H2

Thank you,
Mason Vander Lugt and the Online Media Committee

P.S. if you are on Facebook but aren't yet following the official ARSC page, check it out! - https://www.facebook.com/arscaudio/

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2018 07:35:40 -0700
From: Lou Judson <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: ARSC Facebook Group?

Some of us don’t use those things.
<L>
Lou Judson
Intuitive Audio
415-883-2689

On Sep 12, 2018, at 7:31 AM, Mason Vander Lugt <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> Hi ARSC, the Online Media Committee is looking into the idea of creating a discussion group on Facebook, and would like your (ARSC member) input about the possibility. In short, a "Group", in Facebook terms, functions more like a web forum, and would not replace our existing Facebook "Page", which is designed more for ARSC to communicate with members and the public (but, to a lesser extent, supports user submissions).
>
> For examples, you can look at existing Facebook groups for similar organizations:
> AMIA (https://www.facebook.com/groups/76820094560)
> IASA (https://www.facebook.com/groups/179371048900314)
> AES (https://www.facebook.com/groups/AudioEngineeringSoc)
>
> We have created an anonymous 5-question survey on Google forms, link below. Please take a moment to complete it to let us know how you feel about the idea. The OMC will discuss the results at our meeting later this month and will update here after we've had a chance to process results and weigh options. If you would like more information about what such a group would entail, feel free to write me and/or Andrew Hansbrough ([log in to unmask]).
>
> https://goo.gl/forms/b78SSo8dKHGMvo9H2
>
> Thank you,
> Mason Vander Lugt and the Online Media Committee
>
> P.S. if you are on Facebook but aren't yet following the official ARSC page, check it out! - https://www.facebook.com/arscaudio/
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2018 10:42:06 -0400
From: Gary Gottlieb <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: ARSC Facebook Group?

My experience working with a wide variety of constituencies has made it
clear that different people communicate in different ways, and different
people prefer different forms of social media. When I wish to reach a wider
group I use all forms of media. As such, I support a facebook page as a
means to reach that part of our constituency that uses facebook.

Gary Gottlieb
Co-Chair, AES Historical Committee, DC Section Secretary, and Eastern
Region Vice President Elect, Audio Engineering Society
Executive Director,St. Louis Audio Project
http://stlaudio.org/
Author, Shaping Sound in the Studio and Beyond, Recording on the Go & How
Does It Sound Now? (Winner of the 2010 ARSC Award for Excellence in
Historical Recorded Sound Research)
http://stlaudio.org/gottlieb/

On Wed, Sep 12, 2018 at 10:35 AM, Lou Judson <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> Some of us don’t use those things.
> <L>
> Lou Judson
> Intuitive Audio
> 415-883-2689
>
> On Sep 12, 2018, at 7:31 AM, Mason Vander Lugt <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> > Hi ARSC, the Online Media Committee is looking into the idea of creating
> a discussion group on Facebook, and would like your (ARSC member) input
> about the possibility. In short, a "Group", in Facebook terms, functions
> more like a web forum, and would not replace our existing Facebook "Page",
> which is designed more for ARSC to communicate with members and the public
> (but, to a lesser extent, supports user submissions).
> >
> > For examples, you can look at existing Facebook groups for similar
> organizations:
> > AMIA (https://www.facebook.com/groups/76820094560)
> > IASA (https://www.facebook.com/groups/179371048900314)
> > AES (https://www.facebook.com/groups/AudioEngineeringSoc)
> >
> > We have created an anonymous 5-question survey on Google forms, link
> below. Please take a moment to complete it to let us know how you feel
> about the idea. The OMC will discuss the results at our meeting later this
> month and will update here after we've had a chance to process results and
> weigh options. If you would like more information about what such a group
> would entail, feel free to write me and/or Andrew Hansbrough (
> [log in to unmask]).
> >
> > https://goo.gl/forms/b78SSo8dKHGMvo9H2
> >
> > Thank you,
> > Mason Vander Lugt and the Online Media Committee
> >
> > P.S. if you are on Facebook but aren't yet following the official ARSC
> page, check it out! - https://www.facebook.com/arscaudio/
> >
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2018 15:51:02 +0100
From: Dave Cawley <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: ARSC Facebook Group?

From: Dave Cawley
Timestep Dartmouth UK
e-mail [log in to unmask]

Web site www.78-rpm.com


I am a member of ARSC, in favour and would participate.

Dave

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2018 10:49:06 -0400
From: Dennis Rooney <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: ARSC Facebook Group?

I personally abjure all social media and thus would not use what is
proposed. The member discussion listserv is the only means of communicating
will fellow members that I will continue to use.

DDR.

On Wed, Sep 12, 2018 at 10:31 AM Mason Vander Lugt <[log in to unmask]>
wrote:

> Hi ARSC, the Online Media Committee is looking into the idea of creating a
> discussion group on Facebook, and would like your (ARSC member) input about
> the possibility. In short, a "Group", in Facebook terms, functions more
> like a web forum, and would not replace our existing Facebook "Page", which
> is designed more for ARSC to communicate with members and the public (but,
> to a lesser extent, supports user submissions).
>
> For examples, you can look at existing Facebook groups for similar
> organizations:
> AMIA (https://www.facebook.com/groups/76820094560)
> IASA (https://www.facebook.com/groups/179371048900314)
> AES (https://www.facebook.com/groups/AudioEngineeringSoc)
>
> We have created an anonymous 5-question survey on Google forms, link
> below. Please take a moment to complete it to let us know how you feel
> about the idea. The OMC will discuss the results at our meeting later this
> month and will update here after we've had a chance to process results and
> weigh options. If you would like more information about what such a group
> would entail, feel free to write me and/or Andrew Hansbrough (
> [log in to unmask]).
>
> https://goo.gl/forms/b78SSo8dKHGMvo9H2
>
> Thank you,
> Mason Vander Lugt and the Online Media Committee
>
> P.S. if you are on Facebook but aren't yet following the official ARSC
> page, check it out! - https://www.facebook.com/arscaudio/
>


--
1006 Langer Way
Delray Beach, FL 33483
561.265.2976

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2018 14:54:24 +0000
From: "Burgess, Scott" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: ARSC Facebook Group?

Looks like we're voting both on the Google sheet and here, so I'll cast mine in favor as well. Facebook is an imperfect tool and a spawning ground for many rabbit holes, but it is also a useful tool for outreach and communication.

----
Scott Burgess | Manager of Recording Labs and Live Sound
Dept of Music and Entertainment Industry Studies
University of Colorado Denver
303-315-7462 (office – please note new phone number!)
[log in to unmask] | cam.ucdenver.edu <http://cam.ucdenver.edu/>

On 9/12/18, 8:44 AM, "Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List on behalf of Gary Gottlieb" <[log in to unmask] on behalf of [log in to unmask]> wrote:

    My experience working with a wide variety of constituencies has made it
    clear that different people communicate in different ways, and different
    people prefer different forms of social media. When I wish to reach a wider
    group I use all forms of media. As such, I support a facebook page as a
    means to reach that part of our constituency that uses facebook.
    
    Gary Gottlieb
    Co-Chair, AES Historical Committee, DC Section Secretary, and Eastern
    Region Vice President Elect, Audio Engineering Society
    Executive Director,St. Louis Audio Project
    http://stlaudio.org/
    Author, Shaping Sound in the Studio and Beyond, Recording on the Go & How
    Does It Sound Now? (Winner of the 2010 ARSC Award for Excellence in
    Historical Recorded Sound Research)
    http://stlaudio.org/gottlieb/
    
   On Wed, Sep 12, 2018 at 10:35 AM, Lou Judson <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
    
  > Some of us don’t use those things.
    > <L>
    > Lou Judson
    > Intuitive Audio
    > 415-883-2689
    >
    > On Sep 12, 2018, at 7:31 AM, Mason Vander Lugt <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
    >
    > > Hi ARSC, the Online Media Committee is looking into the idea of creating
    > a discussion group on Facebook, and would like your (ARSC member) input
    > about the possibility. In short, a "Group", in Facebook terms, functions
    > more like a web forum, and would not replace our existing Facebook "Page",
    > which is designed more for ARSC to communicate with members and the public
    > (but, to a lesser extent, supports user submissions).
    > >
    > > For examples, you can look at existing Facebook groups for similar
    > organizations:
    > > AMIA (https://www.facebook.com/groups/76820094560)
    > > IASA (https://www.facebook.com/groups/179371048900314)
    > > AES (https://www.facebook.com/groups/AudioEngineeringSoc)
    > >
    > > We have created an anonymous 5-question survey on Google forms, link
    > below. Please take a moment to complete it to let us know how you feel
    > about the idea. The OMC will discuss the results at our meeting later this
    > month and will update here after we've had a chance to process results and
    > weigh options. If you would like more information about what such a group
    > would entail, feel free to write me and/or Andrew Hansbrough (
    > [log in to unmask]).
    > >
    > > https://goo.gl/forms/b78SSo8dKHGMvo9H2
    > >
    > > Thank you,
    > > Mason Vander Lugt and the Online Media Committee
    > >
    > > P.S. if you are on Facebook but aren't yet following the official ARSC
    > page, check it out! - https://www.facebook.com/arscaudio/
    > >
    >
    

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2018 15:00:54 +0000
From: "Karl E. Fitzke" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: ARSC Facebook Group?

I quit FB in April, tired of their hesitation at the time about discontinuing their history of giving jerks or worse a "free speech" platform from which to broadcast onto the internet. And there were also the privacy issues that came up just before then too. Good riddance. Now I have extra time to write rants on email listserves! ;-D

________________________________
From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List <[log in to unmask]> on behalf of Dave Cawley <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2018 10:51:02 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] ARSC Facebook Group?

From: Dave Cawley
Timestep Dartmouth UK
e-mail [log in to unmask]

Web site www.78-rpm.com<http://www.78-rpm.com>


I am a member of ARSC, in favour and would participate.

Dave

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2018 11:05:51 -0400
From: Mason Vander Lugt <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: ARSC Facebook Group?

Scott - yes, we thought about trying to discourage this in the original message, but it's probably inevitable. We will weigh responses both on the survey and here but would prefer responses on the survey to avoid prematurely swaying opinion in one direction or the other. In response to Ron's comment, it appears the survey is accepting responses, including the "comment and suggestion" field.

Mason

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2018 08:03:30 -0700
From: David Katznelson <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: ARSC Facebook Group?

I am loving these responses.

We should try anything to increase dialogue with all of our members...and
maybe...maybe...attract new ones. We should talk about slack at some point
as well....what a great way of sharing audio while discussing it in a
closed group.

All of this stuff is hard, and often does not have the momentum to push
through.
I think the committee should identify 1-3 people who will keep the
conversation going...and for all of you who do not use facebook, that is ok
too!!!! Worse case, you think you might miss something...and that means
there is something worth missing...and that is good.

David

On Wed, Sep 12, 2018 at 7:56 AM Burgess, Scott <[log in to unmask]>
wrote:

> Looks like we're voting both on the Google sheet and here, so I'll cast
> mine in favor as well. Facebook is an imperfect tool and a spawning ground
> for many rabbit holes, but it is also a useful tool for outreach and
> communication.
>
> ----
> Scott Burgess | Manager of Recording Labs and Live Sound
> Dept of Music and Entertainment Industry Studies
> University of Colorado Denver
> 303-315-7462 (office – please note new phone number!)
> [log in to unmask] | cam.ucdenver.edu <http://cam.ucdenver.edu/>
>
> On 9/12/18, 8:44 AM, "Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List on
> behalf of Gary Gottlieb" <[log in to unmask] on behalf of
> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> My experience working with a wide variety of constituencies has made it
> clear that different people communicate in different ways, and
> different
> people prefer different forms of social media. When I wish to reach a
> wider
> group I use all forms of media. As such, I support a facebook page as a
> means to reach that part of our constituency that uses facebook.
>
> Gary Gottlieb
> Co-Chair, AES Historical Committee, DC Section Secretary, and Eastern
> Region Vice President Elect, Audio Engineering Society
> Executive Director,St. Louis Audio Project
> http://stlaudio.org/
> Author, Shaping Sound in the Studio and Beyond, Recording on the Go &
> How
> Does It Sound Now? (Winner of the 2010 ARSC Award for Excellence in
> Historical Recorded Sound Research)
> http://stlaudio.org/gottlieb/
>
> On Wed, Sep 12, 2018 at 10:35 AM, Lou Judson <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
>
> > Some of us don’t use those things.
> > <L>
> > Lou Judson
> > Intuitive Audio
> > 415-883-2689
> >
> > On Sep 12, 2018, at 7:31 AM, Mason Vander Lugt <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi ARSC, the Online Media Committee is looking into the idea of
> creating
> > a discussion group on Facebook, and would like your (ARSC member)
> input
> > about the possibility. In short, a "Group", in Facebook terms,
> functions
> > more like a web forum, and would not replace our existing Facebook
> "Page",
> > which is designed more for ARSC to communicate with members and the
> public
> > (but, to a lesser extent, supports user submissions).
> > >
> > > For examples, you can look at existing Facebook groups for similar
> > organizations:
> > > AMIA (https://www.facebook.com/groups/76820094560)
> > > IASA (https://www.facebook.com/groups/179371048900314)
> > > AES (https://www.facebook.com/groups/AudioEngineeringSoc)
> > >
> > > We have created an anonymous 5-question survey on Google forms,
> link
> > below. Please take a moment to complete it to let us know how you
> feel
> > about the idea. The OMC will discuss the results at our meeting
> later this
> > month and will update here after we've had a chance to process
> results and
> > weigh options. If you would like more information about what such a
> group
> > would entail, feel free to write me and/or Andrew Hansbrough (
> > [log in to unmask]).
> > >
> > > https://goo.gl/forms/b78SSo8dKHGMvo9H2
> > >
> > > Thank you,
> > > Mason Vander Lugt and the Online Media Committee
> > >
> > > P.S. if you are on Facebook but aren't yet following the official
> ARSC
> > page, check it out! - https://www.facebook.com/arscaudio/
> > >
> >
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2018 16:18:04 +0100
From: CJB <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: ARSC Facebook Group?

I agree. FB is the most untrustworthy and exploitive platform I know
on the web. And out of principal due to its anti-semitic stance
amongst other political and racist issues I refuse to use it except
for contacting relatives (who are damn well hooked). If ARSC goes onto
FB, ARSC it will well contaminate its professional status. CJB

On 12/09/2018, Karl E. Fitzke <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> I quit FB in April, tired of their hesitation at the time about
> discontinuing their history of giving jerks or worse a "free speech"
> platform from which to broadcast onto the internet. And there were also the
> privacy issues that came up just before then too. Good riddance. Now I
> have extra time to write rants on email listserves! ;-D
>
> ________________________________
> From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List
> <[log in to unmask]> on behalf of Dave Cawley <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2018 10:51:02 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] ARSC Facebook Group?
>
> From: Dave Cawley
> Timestep Dartmouth UK
> e-mail [log in to unmask]
>
> Web site www.78-rpm.com<http://www.78-rpm.com>
>
>
> I am a member of ARSC, in favour and would participate.
>
> Dave
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2018 11:23:01 -0400
From: Ron Roscoe <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: ARSC Facebook Group?

I could not get access to the comment and suggestion field.
Tried hard!
Perhaps if you answer all the questions with "No", you aren't deemed worthy of leaving a comment?

Ron Roscoe

-----Original Message-----
From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Mason Vander Lugt
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2018 11:06 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] ARSC Facebook Group?

Scott - yes, we thought about trying to discourage this in the original message, but it's probably inevitable. We will weigh responses both on the survey and here but would prefer responses on the survey to avoid prematurely swaying opinion in one direction or the other. In response to Ron's comment, it appears the survey is accepting responses, including the "comment and suggestion" field.

Mason

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2018 11:27:31 -0400
From: Steven Smolian <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: ARSC Facebook Group?

We all have email. That suffices.

I consider anything on facebook unreliable and will not use it. Don't split the ARSC community so those of us deeply uncomfortable with Facebook are frozen out.

Steven Smolian

-----Original Message-----
From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Mason Vander Lugt
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2018 10:32 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [ARSCLIST] ARSC Facebook Group?

Hi ARSC, the Online Media Committee is looking into the idea of creating a discussion group on Facebook, and would like your (ARSC member) input about the possibility. In short, a "Group", in Facebook terms, functions more like a web forum, and would not replace our existing Facebook "Page", which is designed more for ARSC to communicate with members and the public (but, to a lesser extent, supports user submissions).

For examples, you can look at existing Facebook groups for similar organizations:
AMIA (https://www.facebook.com/groups/76820094560)
IASA (https://www.facebook.com/groups/179371048900314)
AES (https://www.facebook.com/groups/AudioEngineeringSoc)

We have created an anonymous 5-question survey on Google forms, link below. Please take a moment to complete it to let us know how you feel about the idea. The OMC will discuss the results at our meeting later this month and will update here after we've had a chance to process results and weigh options. If you would like more information about what such a group would entail, feel free to write me and/or Andrew Hansbrough ([log in to unmask]).

https://goo.gl/forms/b78SSo8dKHGMvo9H2

Thank you,
Mason Vander Lugt and the Online Media Committee

P.S. if you are on Facebook but aren't yet following the official ARSC page, check it out! - https://www.facebook.com/arscaudio/

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2018 11:37:33 -0400
From: Mason Vander Lugt <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: ARSC Facebook Group?

Is anyone else having the issue Ron is describing? Ron, in the meantime, you might try with another browser? We're getting lots of responses, and many with comments. I promise the form is not designed to disallow comments based on any previous answers. We've noted your votes, and if you have any additional comments you can write me or Andrew ([log in to unmask]) or continue here. Thanks.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2018 08:38:48 -0700
From: Lou Judson <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: ARSC Facebook Group?

I had a client who did house concerts and I did sound for them. At one point they stopped putting the schedule on the web page. When I asked, they said it is on farcebook. I never went back… Their loss.

:-)
Lou Judson
Intuitive Audio
415-883-2689

On Sep 12, 2018, at 8:27 AM, Steven Smolian <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> We all have email. That suffices.
>
> I consider anything on facebook unreliable and will not use it. Don't split the ARSC community so those of us deeply uncomfortable with Facebook are frozen out.
>
> Steven Smolian

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2018 08:49:08 -0700
From: Stewart Gooderman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: ARSC Facebook Group?

I agree. Facebook mines everyone’s data and sells it without your permission, including people you communicate with. Its security profile, in a word, stinks. I’ve closed my account down. Won’t use it.

DrG


> On Sep 12, 2018, at 8:27 AM, Steven Smolian <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> We all have email. That suffices.
>
> I consider anything on facebook unreliable and will not use it. Don't split the ARSC community so those of us deeply uncomfortable with Facebook are frozen out.
>
> Steven Smolian
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Mason Vander Lugt
> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2018 10:32 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: [ARSCLIST] ARSC Facebook Group?
>
> Hi ARSC, the Online Media Committee is looking into the idea of creating a discussion group on Facebook, and would like your (ARSC member) input about the possibility. In short, a "Group", in Facebook terms, functions more like a web forum, and would not replace our existing Facebook "Page", which is designed more for ARSC to communicate with members and the public (but, to a lesser extent, supports user submissions).
>
> For examples, you can look at existing Facebook groups for similar organizations:
> AMIA (https://www.facebook.com/groups/76820094560)
> IASA (https://www.facebook.com/groups/179371048900314)
> AES (https://www.facebook.com/groups/AudioEngineeringSoc)
>
> We have created an anonymous 5-question survey on Google forms, link below. Please take a moment to complete it to let us know how you feel about the idea. The OMC will discuss the results at our meeting later this month and will update here after we've had a chance to process results and weigh options. If you would like more information about what such a group would entail, feel free to write me and/or Andrew Hansbrough ([log in to unmask]).
>
> https://goo.gl/forms/b78SSo8dKHGMvo9H2
>
> Thank you,
> Mason Vander Lugt and the Online Media Committee
>
> P.S. if you are on Facebook but aren't yet following the official ARSC page, check it out! - https://www.facebook.com/arscaudio/

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2018 12:07:56 -0400
From: Peter Hirsch <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: ARSC Facebook Group?

I personally keep Facebook at as far a distance from myself as possible,
though it happens to be the primary way that several persons and groups in
my orbit use to connect with the rest of the world (which includes me).
That said, my negative vote regarding an ARSC presence there has nothing to
do with my numerous objections to what Facebook is, how it functions and
the many real and/or perceived biases and malfeasances that have been
attributed to it. I simply see that it will fragment the dialog that goes
on here and potentially kill off this list. I have subscribed to certain
other lists literally for decades (starting in the mid-90s) that still
exist, but are no longer vital forums (as in zero postings for months at a
time) since their members have all decided to decamp for Facebook. I don't
realistically imagine that an official (or unofficial) ARSC Facebook will
not come about sooner or later, but I hope that those who connect with it
will take some care to keep this list part of the dialog. Social media is
something that is not going away and I have no problem with anyone who
partakes, but it is good to recognize that a significant and actively
contributing chunk of the ARSC community "prefers not to". I am sure that
the several no votes from frequent posters already appearing are only part
of a larger group who feel likewise but have not chimed in so far.

Cheers,

Peter Hirsch

On Wed, Sep 12, 2018 at 11:37 AM, Mason Vander Lugt <[log in to unmask]>
wrote:

> Is anyone else having the issue Ron is describing? Ron, in the meantime,
> you might try with another browser? We're getting lots of responses, and
> many with comments. I promise the form is not designed to disallow comments
> based on any previous answers. We've noted your votes, and if you have any
> additional comments you can write me or Andrew ([log in to unmask]) or
> continue here. Thanks.
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2018 12:20:07 -0400
From: Eli Bildirici <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: ARSC Facebook Group?

I'm torn. I already spend far too much time there. In my experience, this could potentially lead to more dynamic conversations than on other platforms, in part because the Facebook group interface is something between a webforum and a webchat. It would also be easier to share audio, video, and photos than it is here - it is an inherently richer medium than text alone. But I find that social media, for whatever reason, can bring out the worst in otherwise reasonable people. Because of the way Facebook works - people can delete their own posts and comments, which consequently deletes any replies - there is a potential for people acting maliciously. This *will* require active moderation to combat. Aside from that, the conversations would be hosted on a commercial platform upon whose mercy we would depend, and one that is not, to my knowledge, easily archivable: even if the group is public, I don't think Facebook allows robots to index or backup its contents. (This strikes me as particularly ironic...) We can hack together something that could do it, I guess, but my guess is we'd need to constantly maintain it to account for changes in Facebook. The search feature is also limited - it searches posts but not comments on posts, as far as I can tell. That said, I think there could be room for both a Facebook group - perhaps for more casual conversations? Or for link-sharing, as on the AMIA and IASA groups? - as well as the traditional listserv. It can potentially enlarge and enliven the community. Much is posted on Facebook by ARSC members already that would be of interest to other members, on their own walls, and a group could serve as a clearinghouse for such content. On balance, I think it makes sense to at least try it, but we have to go into it with cool heads and clear eyes.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2018 09:26:13 -0700
From: Charles Reinsch <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: ARSC Facebook Group?

Social media apps, like FaceBook, create a "walled garden" with an
illusion of security. I agree with the concerns about fragmentation of
ARSC communication and discussion. Any use of FB by ARSC should not
replicate or draw members away from the discussion platforms (listservs
and blog) already in use.

Now I have o check out the google form....

--
Charles Reinsch
KRAB Archive: www.krabarchive.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2018 06:59:49 -1000
From: Malcolm <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: ARSC Facebook Group?

I would say no to an ARSC Facebook list. I signed on for a few months
way back in Facebook's stone age and retired my account when the first
security problems arose, lo those many years ago. i haven't been back. I
don't Twitter, either. As another member just said we all have email. We
also have what's known as a telephone (although I draw the line at cell
phones - I don't use them, either). To be fair, Facebook can be useful
if one is physically isolated, but it's still not necessary for
communication or getting one's point across to those to whom you need to
get it across.
Just my 2¢ worth.
Malcolm Rockwell

*******

On 9/12/2018 4:31 AM, Mason Vander Lugt wrote:
> Hi ARSC, the Online Media Committee is looking into the idea of creating a discussion group on Facebook, and would like your (ARSC member) input about the possibility. In short, a "Group", in Facebook terms, functions more like a web forum, and would not replace our existing Facebook "Page", which is designed more for ARSC to communicate with members and the public (but, to a lesser extent, supports user submissions).
>
> For examples, you can look at existing Facebook groups for similar organizations:
> AMIA (https://www.facebook.com/groups/76820094560)
> IASA (https://www.facebook.com/groups/179371048900314)
> AES (https://www.facebook.com/groups/AudioEngineeringSoc)
>
> We have created an anonymous 5-question survey on Google forms, link below. Please take a moment to complete it to let us know how you feel about the idea. The OMC will discuss the results at our meeting later this month and will update here after we've had a chance to process results and weigh options. If you would like more information about what such a group would entail, feel free to write me and/or Andrew Hansbrough ([log in to unmask]).
>
> https://goo.gl/forms/b78SSo8dKHGMvo9H2
>
> Thank you,
> Mason Vander Lugt and the Online Media Committee
>
> P.S. if you are on Facebook but aren't yet following the official ARSC page, check it out! - https://www.facebook.com/arscaudio/
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2018 17:39:00 +0000
From: "Burgess, Scott" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: ARSC Facebook Group?

Charles states a good point about the walled garden. One note of caution, though: ARSC should stake its claim on Facebook even if just to direct folks to the other resources and this list. The Audio Engineering Society recently had an issue with a page someone had created with the AES name on it, but that was unofficial. It devolved into a misogynistic trollfest one day that may have hurt the AES reputation. Someone who was officially part of the Society created an official page which is now moderated by several AES officers, and to the best of my knowledge, most serious folks have jettisoned the unofficial page. I also believe AES has initiated legal action against the party who appropriated their name and logo. ARSC might want to have an official page just to stave off a similar problem.

Respectfully,
Scott

----
Scott Burgess | Manager of Recording Labs and Live Sound
Dept of Music and Entertainment Industry Studies
University of Colorado Denver
303-315-7462 (office – please note new phone number!)
[log in to unmask] | cam.ucdenver.edu <http://cam.ucdenver.edu/>

On 9/12/18, 10:28 AM, "Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List on behalf of Charles Reinsch" <[log in to unmask] on behalf of [log in to unmask]> wrote:

    Social media apps, like FaceBook, create a "walled garden" with an
    illusion of security. I agree with the concerns about fragmentation of
    ARSC communication and discussion. Any use of FB by ARSC should not
    replicate or draw members away from the discussion platforms (listservs
    and blog) already in use.
  
    Now I have o check out the google form....
    
    --
    Charles Reinsch
    KRAB Archive: www.krabarchive.com
    

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2018 18:24:10 +0000
From: Karl Miller <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Of possible interest?

https://1320elements.com/2018/09/10/real-to-reel-two-different-approaches-to-sound-archiving-from-scotland-and-norway/

The URL should be self explanatory.
Best,
Karl

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2018 14:13:21 -0500
From: Paul Stamler <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: ARSC Facebook Group?

Why?

Peace,
Paul Stamler

On 9/12/2018 9:31 AM, Mason Vander Lugt wrote:
> Hi ARSC, the Online Media Committee is looking into the idea of creating a discussion group on Facebook, and would like your (ARSC member) input about the possibility. In short, a "Group", in Facebook terms, functions more like a web forum, and would not replace our existing Facebook "Page", which is designed more for ARSC to communicate with members and the public (but, to a lesser extent, supports user submissions).
>
> For examples, you can look at existing Facebook groups for similar organizations:
> AMIA (https://www.facebook.com/groups/76820094560)
> IASA (https://www.facebook.com/groups/179371048900314)
> AES (https://www.facebook.com/groups/AudioEngineeringSoc)
>
> We have created an anonymous 5-question survey on Google forms, link below. Please take a moment to complete it to let us know how you feel about the idea. The OMC will discuss the results at our meeting later this month and will update here after we've had a chance to process results and weigh options. If you would like more information about what such a group would entail, feel free to write me and/or Andrew Hansbrough ([log in to unmask]).
>
> https://goo.gl/forms/b78SSo8dKHGMvo9H2
>
> Thank you,
> Mason Vander Lugt and the Online Media Committee
>
> P.S. if you are on Facebook but aren't yet following the official ARSC page, check it out! - https://www.facebook.com/arscaudio/
>

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2018 15:16:37 -0400
From: David Lewis <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: ARSC Facebook Group?

A too short message, but I'm all for it. I think it would be extremely
useful.

thanks,

Dave Lewis

On Wed, Sep 12, 2018 at 1:39 PM Burgess, Scott <[log in to unmask]>
wrote:

> Charles states a good point about the walled garden. One note of caution,
> though: ARSC should stake its claim on Facebook even if just to direct
> folks to the other resources and this list. The Audio Engineering Society
> recently had an issue with a page someone had created with the AES name on
> it, but that was unofficial. It devolved into a misogynistic trollfest one
> day that may have hurt the AES reputation. Someone who was officially part
> of the Society created an official page which is now moderated by several
> AES officers, and to the best of my knowledge, most serious folks have
> jettisoned the unofficial page. I also believe AES has initiated legal
> action against the party who appropriated their name and logo. ARSC might
> want to have an official page just to stave off a similar problem.
>
> Respectfully,
> Scott
>
> ----
> Scott Burgess | Manager of Recording Labs and Live Sound
> Dept of Music and Entertainment Industry Studies
> University of Colorado Denver
> 303-315-7462 (office – please note new phone number!)
> [log in to unmask] | cam.ucdenver.edu <http://cam.ucdenver.edu/>
>
> On 9/12/18, 10:28 AM, "Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List on
> behalf of Charles Reinsch" <[log in to unmask] on behalf of
> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> Social media apps, like FaceBook, create a "walled garden" with an
> illusion of security. I agree with the concerns about fragmentation
> of
> ARSC communication and discussion. Any use of FB by ARSC should not
> replicate or draw members away from the discussion platforms
> (listservs
> and blog) already in use.
>
> Now I have o check out the google form....
>
> --
> Charles Reinsch
> KRAB Archive: www.krabarchive.com
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2018 15:38:22 -0400
From: Mason Vander Lugt <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: ARSC Facebook Group?

Thanks Paul. Our original message probably should have addressed that. Two potential advantages include increased participation by some members due to a more casual tone, and improved sharing of media.

Also, in response to a comment off-list, I would like to note that the group is not proposed as a replacement to the listserv.

Mason

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2018 07:50:30 +1200
From: Marie O'Connell <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: ARSC Facebook Group?

Ata mārie (good morning)

I would use it.

Ngā mihi (thank you)
Nā (from) Marie

On Thu, Sep 13, 2018 at 7:38 AM, Mason Vander Lugt <[log in to unmask]>
wrote:

> Thanks Paul. Our original message probably should have addressed that. Two
> potential advantages include increased participation by some members due to
> a more casual tone, and improved sharing of media.
>
> Also, in response to a comment off-list, I would like to note that the
> group is not proposed as a replacement to the listserv.
>
> Mason
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2018 16:05:37 -0400
From: Alex McGehee <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: ARSC Facebook Group?

Right on, Ron Roscoe. “Facebook is a time sink.”
The committees and leadership of ARSC do an absolutely terrific job. Long hours. No pay. Many thanks to all of you.
However, Some ARSC members are trying to reduce (difficult to eliminate) on-line surveillance systems that use personal data to make money for gazillionaires. I’ll gladly tell you anything you want to know about the movies I watch and my unusual interest in women’s undergarments, but first, what’s it worth to you? Free, is the wrong answer.
ARSC forums are a great way for members to stay in touch, for leadership to keep an ear to the ground, but please, can’t we find an avenue other than Facebook. I’ll bet a survey would show a surprising number of ARSC members who don’t go near the thing. We don’t have pictures of grandchildren we want to share with the world!

Regards,
Alex McGehee

> On Sep 12, 2018, at 10:35 AM, Lou Judson <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> Some of us don’t use those things.
> <L>
> Lou Judson
> Intuitive Audio
> 415-883-2689
>
> On Sep 12, 2018, at 7:31 AM, Mason Vander Lugt <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>> Hi ARSC, the Online Media Committee is looking into the idea of creating a discussion group on Facebook, and would like your (ARSC member) input about the possibility. In short, a "Group", in Facebook terms, functions more like a web forum, and would not replace our existing Facebook "Page", which is designed more for ARSC to communicate with members and the public (but, to a lesser extent, supports user submissions).
>>
>> For examples, you can look at existing Facebook groups for similar organizations:
>> AMIA (https://www.facebook.com/groups/76820094560)
>> IASA (https://www.facebook.com/groups/179371048900314)
>> AES (https://www.facebook.com/groups/AudioEngineeringSoc)
>>
>> We have created an anonymous 5-question survey on Google forms, link below. Please take a moment to complete it to let us know how you feel about the idea. The OMC will discuss the results at our meeting later this month and will update here after we've had a chance to process results and weigh options. If you would like more information about what such a group would entail, feel free to write me and/or Andrew Hansbrough ([log in to unmask]).
>>
>> https://goo.gl/forms/b78SSo8dKHGMvo9H2
>>
>> Thank you,
>> Mason Vander Lugt and the Online Media Committee
>>
>> P.S. if you are on Facebook but aren't yet following the official ARSC page, check it out! - https://www.facebook.com/arscaudio/
>>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2018 16:17:54 -0400
From: Alex McGehee <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: ARSC Facebook Group?

A well-worth-the-read article published yesterday by the New Yorker. https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/09/17/can-mark-zuckerberg-fix-facebook-before-it-breaks-democracy <https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/09/17/can-mark-zuckerberg-fix-facebook-before-it-breaks-democracy>
Alex McGehee

> On Sep 12, 2018, at 10:31 AM, Mason Vander Lugt <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> Hi ARSC, the Online Media Committee is looking into the idea of creating a discussion group on Facebook, and would like your (ARSC member) input about the possibility. In short, a "Group", in Facebook terms, functions more like a web forum, and would not replace our existing Facebook "Page", which is designed more for ARSC to communicate with members and the public (but, to a lesser extent, supports user submissions).
>
> For examples, you can look at existing Facebook groups for similar organizations:
> AMIA (https://www.facebook.com/groups/76820094560)
> IASA (https://www.facebook.com/groups/179371048900314)
> AES (https://www.facebook.com/groups/AudioEngineeringSoc)
>
> We have created an anonymous 5-question survey on Google forms, link below. Please take a moment to complete it to let us know how you feel about the idea. The OMC will discuss the results at our meeting later this month and will update here after we've had a chance to process results and weigh options. If you would like more information about what such a group would entail, feel free to write me and/or Andrew Hansbrough ([log in to unmask]).
>
> https://goo.gl/forms/b78SSo8dKHGMvo9H2
>
> Thank you,
> Mason Vander Lugt and the Online Media Committee
>
> P.S. if you are on Facebook but aren't yet following the official ARSC page, check it out! - https://www.facebook.com/arscaudio/

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2018 14:21:15 -0600
From: David Glasser <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: ARSC Facebook Group?

Reality check: SMPTE, AES, NARAS, Union of Concerned Scientists, most major and minor universities, FEMA, National Academy of Sciences, NASA, AMPAS, Society of Broadcast Engineers, National Kennel Club, PBS, NPR and thousands of other businesses, organizations, and professional societies all have a presence on Facebook. I can’t believe we are even having this discussion.

David Glasser
Chief Engineer

303-247-9035






  
    <http://www.airshowmastering.com/>

  
   
 <http://www.airshowmastering.com/>
> On Sep 12, 2018, at 2:05 PM, Alex McGehee <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> Right on, Ron Roscoe. “Facebook is a time sink.”
> The committees and leadership of ARSC do an absolutely terrific job. Long hours. No pay. Many thanks to all of you.
> However, Some ARSC members are trying to reduce (difficult to eliminate) on-line surveillance systems that use personal data to make money for gazillionaires. I’ll gladly tell you anything you want to know about the movies I watch and my unusual interest in women’s undergarments, but first, what’s it worth to you? Free, is the wrong answer.
> ARSC forums are a great way for members to stay in touch, for leadership to keep an ear to the ground, but please, can’t we find an avenue other than Facebook. I’ll bet a survey would show a surprising number of ARSC members who don’t go near the thing. We don’t have pictures of grandchildren we want to share with the world!
>
> Regards,
> Alex McGehee
>
>> On Sep 12, 2018, at 10:35 AM, Lou Judson <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>
>> Some of us don’t use those things.
>> <L>
>> Lou Judson
>> Intuitive Audio
>> 415-883-2689
>>
>> On Sep 12, 2018, at 7:31 AM, Mason Vander Lugt <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi ARSC, the Online Media Committee is looking into the idea of creating a discussion group on Facebook, and would like your (ARSC member) input about the possibility. In short, a "Group", in Facebook terms, functions more like a web forum, and would not replace our existing Facebook "Page", which is designed more for ARSC to communicate with members and the public (but, to a lesser extent, supports user submissions).
>>>
>>> For examples, you can look at existing Facebook groups for similar organizations:
>>> AMIA (https://www.facebook.com/groups/76820094560)
>>> IASA (https://www.facebook.com/groups/179371048900314)
>>> AES (https://www.facebook.com/groups/AudioEngineeringSoc)
>>>
>>> We have created an anonymous 5-question survey on Google forms, link below. Please take a moment to complete it to let us know how you feel about the idea. The OMC will discuss the results at our meeting later this month and will update here after we've had a chance to process results and weigh options. If you would like more information about what such a group would entail, feel free to write me and/or Andrew Hansbrough ([log in to unmask]).
>>>
>>> https://goo.gl/forms/b78SSo8dKHGMvo9H2
>>>
>>> Thank you,
>>> Mason Vander Lugt and the Online Media Committee
>>>
>>> P.S. if you are on Facebook but aren't yet following the official ARSC page, check it out! - https://www.facebook.com/arscaudio/
>>>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2018 16:32:18 -0400
From: Alex McGehee <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: ARSC Facebook Group?

But we are having this discussion. That’s part of what ARSC’s list-serve does. Quite an impressive list of organizations you’ve compiled. Mom always told me, “just because everyone else does it,” was not an acceptable answer.

Regards,
Alex McGehee

> On Sep 12, 2018, at 4:21 PM, David Glasser <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> Reality check: SMPTE, AES, NARAS, Union of Concerned Scientists, most major and minor universities, FEMA, National Academy of Sciences, NASA, AMPAS, Society of Broadcast Engineers, National Kennel Club, PBS, NPR and thousands of other businesses, organizations, and professional societies all have a presence on Facebook. I can’t believe we are even having this discussion.
>
> David Glasser
> Chief Engineer
>
> 303-247-9035
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> <http://www.airshowmastering.com/>
>
>
>
> <http://www.airshowmastering.com/>
>> On Sep 12, 2018, at 2:05 PM, Alex McGehee <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>
>> Right on, Ron Roscoe. “Facebook is a time sink.”
>> The committees and leadership of ARSC do an absolutely terrific job. Long hours. No pay. Many thanks to all of you.
>> However, Some ARSC members are trying to reduce (difficult to eliminate) on-line surveillance systems that use personal data to make money for gazillionaires. I’ll gladly tell you anything you want to know about the movies I watch and my unusual interest in women’s undergarments, but first, what’s it worth to you? Free, is the wrong answer.
>> ARSC forums are a great way for members to stay in touch, for leadership to keep an ear to the ground, but please, can’t we find an avenue other than Facebook. I’ll bet a survey would show a surprising number of ARSC members who don’t go near the thing. We don’t have pictures of grandchildren we want to share with the world!
>>
>> Regards,
>> Alex McGehee
>>
>>> On Sep 12, 2018, at 10:35 AM, Lou Judson <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Some of us don’t use those things.
>>> <L>
>>> Lou Judson
>>> Intuitive Audio
>>> 415-883-2689
>>>
>>> On Sep 12, 2018, at 7:31 AM, Mason Vander Lugt <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi ARSC, the Online Media Committee is looking into the idea of creating a discussion group on Facebook, and would like your (ARSC member) input about the possibility. In short, a "Group", in Facebook terms, functions more like a web forum, and would not replace our existing Facebook "Page", which is designed more for ARSC to communicate with members and the public (but, to a lesser extent, supports user submissions).
>>>>
>>>> For examples, you can look at existing Facebook groups for similar organizations:
>>>> AMIA (https://www.facebook.com/groups/76820094560)
>>>> IASA (https://www.facebook.com/groups/179371048900314)
>>>> AES (https://www.facebook.com/groups/AudioEngineeringSoc)
>>>>
>>>> We have created an anonymous 5-question survey on Google forms, link below. Please take a moment to complete it to let us know how you feel about the idea. The OMC will discuss the results at our meeting later this month and will update here after we've had a chance to process results and weigh options. If you would like more information about what such a group would entail, feel free to write me and/or Andrew Hansbrough ([log in to unmask]).
>>>>
>>>> https://goo.gl/forms/b78SSo8dKHGMvo9H2
>>>>
>>>> Thank you,
>>>> Mason Vander Lugt and the Online Media Committee
>>>>
>>>> P.S. if you are on Facebook but aren't yet following the official ARSC page, check it out! - https://www.facebook.com/arscaudio/
>>>>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2018 08:33:29 +1200
From: Gennady Lyskin <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: ARSC Facebook Group?

Facebook free? As you know, free cheese can be found in a mouse-trap only.

Best regards,

Gennady Lyskin

G e n n L a b
http://www.gennlab.com
[log in to unmask]
Tel: +64 21 238 3056
New Zealand
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alex McGehee" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2018 8:05 AM
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] ARSC Facebook Group?


Right on, Ron Roscoe. “Facebook is a time sink.”
The committees and leadership of ARSC do an absolutely terrific job. Long hours. No pay. Many thanks to all of you.
However, Some ARSC members are trying to reduce (difficult to eliminate) on-line surveillance systems that use personal data to make money for gazillionaires. I’ll gladly tell you anything you want to know about the movies I watch and my unusual interest in women’s undergarments, but first, what’s it worth to you? Free, is the wrong answer.
ARSC forums are a great way for members to stay in touch, for leadership to keep an ear to the ground, but please, can’t we find an avenue other than Facebook. I’ll bet a survey would show a surprising number of ARSC members who don’t go near the thing. We don’t have pictures of grandchildren we want to share with the world!

Regards,
Alex McGehee

> On Sep 12, 2018, at 10:35 AM, Lou Judson <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> Some of us don’t use those things.
> <L>
> Lou Judson
> Intuitive Audio
> 415-883-2689
>
> On Sep 12, 2018, at 7:31 AM, Mason Vander Lugt <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>> Hi ARSC, the Online Media Committee is looking into the idea of creating a discussion group on Facebook, and would like your (ARSC member) input about the possibility. In short, a "Group", in Facebook terms, functions more like a web forum, and would not replace our existing Facebook "Page", which is designed more for ARSC to communicate with members and the public (but, to a lesser extent, supports user submissions).
>>
>> For examples, you can look at existing Facebook groups for similar organizations:
>> AMIA (https://www.facebook.com/groups/76820094560)
>> IASA (https://www.facebook.com/groups/179371048900314)
>> AES (https://www.facebook.com/groups/AudioEngineeringSoc)
>>
>> We have created an anonymous 5-question survey on Google forms, link below. Please take a moment to complete it to let us know how you feel about the idea. The OMC will discuss the results at our meeting later this month and will update here after we've had a chance to process results and weigh options. If you would like more information about what such a group would entail, feel free to write me and/or Andrew Hansbrough ([log in to unmask]).
>>
>> https://goo.gl/forms/b78SSo8dKHGMvo9H2
>>
>> Thank you,
>> Mason Vander Lugt and the Online Media Committee
>>
>> P.S. if you are on Facebook but aren't yet following the official ARSC page, check it out! - https://www.facebook.com/arscaudio/
>>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2018 14:38:28 -0700
From: Stewart Gooderman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: ARSC Facebook Group?

We’re having this discussion because people are realizing that Facebook represents a risk to one’s privacy, and people are starting to abandon Facebook in large numbers. The young, especially are moving away from Facebook in droves. If anybody should know, they should.

Just because there are organizations who use it, that doesn’t mean that it’s safe for the individuals who are forced to subscribe to it, a point I made to Consume Reports just recently, to which they understand that they need to study the issue.

DrG


> On Sep 12, 2018, at 1:21 PM, David Glasser <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> Reality check: SMPTE, AES, NARAS, Union of Concerned Scientists, most major and minor universities, FEMA, National Academy of Sciences, NASA, AMPAS, Society of Broadcast Engineers, National Kennel Club, PBS, NPR and thousands of other businesses, organizations, and professional societies all have a presence on Facebook. I can’t believe we are even having this discussion.
>
> David Glasser
> Chief Engineer
>
> 303-247-9035
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2018 14:45:43 -0700
From: "Paul T. Jackson" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: ARSC Facebook Group?

I pointed out in my survey that using Facebook adds to the process of
communicating; one gets an email notification, one clicks, and signs
into facebook, one clicks on messenger to send a message, sometimes it
takes a while to load, sometimes one has to sign into messenger, (if
those sending a note use messenger) and then you can read what was sent.

Adding to such a process is not efficient, when you can read email posts
on your phone directly. don't have to go anywhere else.

My only use of facebook is keeping up with friends and family who don't
otherwise communicate with me directly.


On 9/12/2018 1:32 PM, Alex McGehee wrote:
> But we are having this discussion. That’s part of what ARSC’s list-serve does. Quite an impressive list of organizations you’ve compiled. Mom always told me, “just because everyone else does it,” was not an acceptable answer.
>
> Regards,
> Alex McGehee
>
>> On Sep 12, 2018, at 4:21 PM, David Glasser <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>
>> Reality check: SMPTE, AES, NARAS, Union of Concerned Scientists, most major and minor universities, FEMA, National Academy of Sciences, NASA, AMPAS, Society of Broadcast Engineers, National Kennel Club, PBS, NPR and thousands of other businesses, organizations, and professional societies all have a presence on Facebook. I can’t believe we are even having this discussion.
>>
>> David Glasser
>> Chief Engineer
>>
>> 303-247-9035
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> <http://www.airshowmastering.com/>
>>
>>
>>
>> <http://www.airshowmastering.com/>
>>> On Sep 12, 2018, at 2:05 PM, Alex McGehee <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Right on, Ron Roscoe. “Facebook is a time sink.”
>>> The committees and leadership of ARSC do an absolutely terrific job. Long hours. No pay. Many thanks to all of you.
>>> However, Some ARSC members are trying to reduce (difficult to eliminate) on-line surveillance systems that use personal data to make money for gazillionaires. I’ll gladly tell you anything you want to know about the movies I watch and my unusual interest in women’s undergarments, but first, what’s it worth to you? Free, is the wrong answer.
>>> ARSC forums are a great way for members to stay in touch, for leadership to keep an ear to the ground, but please, can’t we find an avenue other than Facebook. I’ll bet a survey would show a surprising number of ARSC members who don’t go near the thing. We don’t have pictures of grandchildren we want to share with the world!
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Alex McGehee
>>>
>>>> On Sep 12, 2018, at 10:35 AM, Lou Judson <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Some of us don’t use those things.
>>>> <L>
>>>> Lou Judson
>>>> Intuitive Audio
>>>> 415-883-2689
>>>>
>>>> On Sep 12, 2018, at 7:31 AM, Mason Vander Lugt <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi ARSC, the Online Media Committee is looking into the idea of creating a discussion group on Facebook, and would like your (ARSC member) input about the possibility. In short, a "Group", in Facebook terms, functions more like a web forum, and would not replace our existing Facebook "Page", which is designed more for ARSC to communicate with members and the public (but, to a lesser extent, supports user submissions).
>>>>>
>>>>> For examples, you can look at existing Facebook groups for similar organizations:
>>>>> AMIA (https://www.facebook.com/groups/76820094560)
>>>>> IASA (https://www.facebook.com/groups/179371048900314)
>>>>> AES (https://www.facebook.com/groups/AudioEngineeringSoc)
>>>>>
>>>>> We have created an anonymous 5-question survey on Google forms, link below. Please take a moment to complete it to let us know how you feel about the idea. The OMC will discuss the results at our meeting later this month and will update here after we've had a chance to process results and weigh options. If you would like more information about what such a group would entail, feel free to write me and/or Andrew Hansbrough ([log in to unmask]).
>>>>>
>>>>> https://goo.gl/forms/b78SSo8dKHGMvo9H2
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>> Mason Vander Lugt and the Online Media Committee
>>>>>
>>>>> P.S. if you are on Facebook but aren't yet following the official ARSC page, check it out! - https://www.facebook.com/arscaudio/
>>>>>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
> https://www.avg.com
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2018 22:05:28 +0000
From: "Huff, David" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: [ARSCLIST] ARSC Facebook Group?

Both Facebook proper and its messaging system have apps that millions of people use on their phones every day. I can’t remember the last time I logged into either one.

__________________
David Huff, M.M.
Sound Preservationist, Music Library
Doctoral Candidate in Music Theory, College of Music
University of North Texas
[log in to unmask]
940-369-7062

> On Sep 12, 2018, at 4:50 PM, Paul T. Jackson <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> I pointed out in my survey that using Facebook adds to the process of communicating; one gets an email notification, one clicks, and signs into facebook, one clicks on messenger to send a message, sometimes it takes a while to load, sometimes one has to sign into messenger, (if those sending a note use messenger) and then you can read what was sent.
>
> Adding to such a process is not efficient, when you can read email posts on your phone directly. don't have to go anywhere else.
>
> My only use of facebook is keeping up with friends and family who don't otherwise communicate with me directly.
>
>
>> On 9/12/2018 1:32 PM, Alex McGehee wrote:
>> But we are having this discussion. That’s part of what ARSC’s list-serve does. Quite an impressive list of organizations you’ve compiled. Mom always told me, “just because everyone else does it,” was not an acceptable answer.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Alex McGehee
>>
>>> On Sep 12, 2018, at 4:21 PM, David Glasser <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Reality check: SMPTE, AES, NARAS, Union of Concerned Scientists, most major and minor universities, FEMA, National Academy of Sciences, NASA, AMPAS, Society of Broadcast Engineers, National Kennel Club, PBS, NPR and thousands of other businesses, organizations, and professional societies all have a presence on Facebook. I can’t believe we are even having this discussion.
>>>
>>> David Glasser
>>> Chief Engineer
>>>
>>> 303-247-9035
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.airshowmastering.com%2F&amp;data=01%7C01%7CDavid.Huff%40UNT.EDU%7Cfa8291e6de414429ff3508d618f9bf2f%7C70de199207c6480fa318a1afcba03983%7C0&amp;sdata=2RQeca9MUenAIluHPKdWJWp%2F1YGod4vwWkeOkXbjmYE%3D&amp;reserved=0>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.airshowmastering.com%2F&amp;data=01%7C01%7CDavid.Huff%40UNT.EDU%7Cfa8291e6de414429ff3508d618f9bf2f%7C70de199207c6480fa318a1afcba03983%7C0&amp;sdata=2RQeca9MUenAIluHPKdWJWp%2F1YGod4vwWkeOkXbjmYE%3D&amp;reserved=0>
>>>> On Sep 12, 2018, at 2:05 PM, Alex McGehee <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Right on, Ron Roscoe. “Facebook is a time sink.”
>>>> The committees and leadership of ARSC do an absolutely terrific job. Long hours. No pay. Many thanks to all of you.
>>>> However, Some ARSC members are trying to reduce (difficult to eliminate) on-line surveillance systems that use personal data to make money for gazillionaires. I’ll gladly tell you anything you want to know about the movies I watch and my unusual interest in women’s undergarments, but first, what’s it worth to you? Free, is the wrong answer.
>>>> ARSC forums are a great way for members to stay in touch, for leadership to keep an ear to the ground, but please, can’t we find an avenue other than Facebook. I’ll bet a survey would show a surprising number of ARSC members who don’t go near the thing. We don’t have pictures of grandchildren we want to share with the world!
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Alex McGehee
>>>>
>>>>> On Sep 12, 2018, at 10:35 AM, Lou Judson <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Some of us don’t use those things.
>>>>> <L>
>>>>> Lou Judson
>>>>> Intuitive Audio
>>>>> 415-883-2689
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sep 12, 2018, at 7:31 AM, Mason Vander Lugt <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi ARSC, the Online Media Committee is looking into the idea of creating a discussion group on Facebook, and would like your (ARSC member) input about the possibility. In short, a "Group", in Facebook terms, functions more like a web forum, and would not replace our existing Facebook "Page", which is designed more for ARSC to communicate with members and the public (but, to a lesser extent, supports user submissions).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For examples, you can look at existing Facebook groups for similar organizations:
>>>>>> AMIA (https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Fgroups%2F76820094560&amp;data=01%7C01%7CDavid.Huff%40UNT.EDU%7Cfa8291e6de414429ff3508d618f9bf2f%7C70de199207c6480fa318a1afcba03983%7C0&amp;sdata=bZeJ9%2BWjoUwu7w4b6JxPjDyuOBw6L5mITdfhEYNP1YE%3D&amp;reserved=0)
>>>>>> IASA (https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Fgroups%2F179371048900314&amp;data=01%7C01%7CDavid.Huff%40UNT.EDU%7Cfa8291e6de414429ff3508d618f9bf2f%7C70de199207c6480fa318a1afcba03983%7C0&amp;sdata=ha3D7uJoYghB0PwxK%2BqkW2tjJCt7MW6UC%2Bon9C7A7eA%3D&amp;reserved=0)
>>>>>> AES (https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Fgroups%2FAudioEngineeringSoc&amp;data=01%7C01%7CDavid.Huff%40UNT.EDU%7Cfa8291e6de414429ff3508d618f9bf2f%7C70de199207c6480fa318a1afcba03983%7C0&amp;sdata=8z%2BHaBtMXl3v1bmD9LULY7ixD%2Ff03xJqTpb%2FrKqUyYQ%3D&amp;reserved=0)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We have created an anonymous 5-question survey on Google forms, link below. Please take a moment to complete it to let us know how you feel about the idea. The OMC will discuss the results at our meeting later this month and will update here after we've had a chance to process results and weigh options. If you would like more information about what such a group would entail, feel free to write me and/or Andrew Hansbrough ([log in to unmask]).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgoo.gl%2Fforms%2Fb78SSo8dKHGMvo9H2&amp;data=01%7C01%7CDavid.Huff%40UNT.EDU%7Cfa8291e6de414429ff3508d618f9bf2f%7C70de199207c6480fa318a1afcba03983%7C0&amp;sdata=B0n4AdKS0TiaSWanc7bMWMT2%2FvgDgUBkO33ts4qrpXg%3D&amp;reserved=0
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>> Mason Vander Lugt and the Online Media Committee
>>>>>>
>>>>>> P.S. if you are on Facebook but aren't yet following the official ARSC page, check it out! - https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Farscaudio%2F&amp;data=01%7C01%7CDavid.Huff%40UNT.EDU%7Cfa8291e6de414429ff3508d618f9bf2f%7C70de199207c6480fa318a1afcba03983%7C0&amp;sdata=5MMd3w%2BjRZ9YlMZ3Q0QnJL4CnDkn61xTX7GfmcVRP9k%3D&amp;reserved=0
>>>>>>
>> ---
>> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.avg.com&amp;data=01%7C01%7CDavid.Huff%40UNT.EDU%7Cfa8291e6de414429ff3508d618f9bf2f%7C70de199207c6480fa318a1afcba03983%7C0&amp;sdata=xqYjonxnJ1pBjFaIFuKJeHN6MKGKWG0vBt7KJmUHjr8%3D&amp;reserved=0
>>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2018 18:17:33 -0400
From: Alex McGehee <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: [ARSCLIST] ARSC Facebook Group?

Interesting to see how large the kickback against Zuckerberg, Inc. has grown among ARSC members using social media, which this list-serve is.

Alex McGehee

> On Sep 12, 2018, at 6:05 PM, Huff, David <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> Both Facebook proper and its messaging system have apps that millions of people use on their phones every day. I can’t remember the last time I logged into either one.
>
> __________________
> David Huff, M.M.
> Sound Preservationist, Music Library
> Doctoral Candidate in Music Theory, College of Music
> University of North Texas
> [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> 940-369-7062
>
>> On Sep 12, 2018, at 4:50 PM, Paul T. Jackson <[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
>>
>> I pointed out in my survey that using Facebook adds to the process of communicating; one gets an email notification, one clicks, and signs into facebook, one clicks on messenger to send a message, sometimes it takes a while to load, sometimes one has to sign into messenger, (if those sending a note use messenger) and then you can read what was sent.
>>
>> Adding to such a process is not efficient, when you can read email posts on your phone directly. don't have to go anywhere else.
>>
>> My only use of facebook is keeping up with friends and family who don't otherwise communicate with me directly.
>>
>>
>>> On 9/12/2018 1:32 PM, Alex McGehee wrote:
>>> But we are having this discussion. That’s part of what ARSC’s list-serve does. Quite an impressive list of organizations you’ve compiled. Mom always told me, “just because everyone else does it,” was not an acceptable answer.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Alex McGehee
>>>
>>>> On Sep 12, 2018, at 4:21 PM, David Glasser <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Reality check: SMPTE, AES, NARAS, Union of Concerned Scientists, most major and minor universities, FEMA, National Academy of Sciences, NASA, AMPAS, Society of Broadcast Engineers, National Kennel Club, PBS, NPR and thousands of other businesses, organizations, and professional societies all have a presence on Facebook. I can’t believe we are even having this discussion.
>>>>
>>>> David Glasser
>>>> Chief Engineer
>>>>
>>>> 303-247-9035
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.airshowmastering.com%2F&amp;data=01%7C01%7CDavid.Huff%40UNT.EDU%7Cfa8291e6de414429ff3508d618f9bf2f%7C70de199207c6480fa318a1afcba03983%7C0&amp;sdata=2RQeca9MUenAIluHPKdWJWp%2F1YGod4vwWkeOkXbjmYE%3D&amp;reserved=0 <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.airshowmastering.com%2F&amp;data=01%7C01%7CDavid.Huff%40UNT.EDU%7Cfa8291e6de414429ff3508d618f9bf2f%7C70de199207c6480fa318a1afcba03983%7C0&amp;sdata=2RQeca9MUenAIluHPKdWJWp%2F1YGod4vwWkeOkXbjmYE%3D&amp;reserved=0>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.airshowmastering.com%2F&amp;data=01%7C01%7CDavid.Huff%40UNT.EDU%7Cfa8291e6de414429ff3508d618f9bf2f%7C70de199207c6480fa318a1afcba03983%7C0&amp;sdata=2RQeca9MUenAIluHPKdWJWp%2F1YGod4vwWkeOkXbjmYE%3D&amp;reserved=0 <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.airshowmastering.com%2F&amp;data=01%7C01%7CDavid.Huff%40UNT.EDU%7Cfa8291e6de414429ff3508d618f9bf2f%7C70de199207c6480fa318a1afcba03983%7C0&amp;sdata=2RQeca9MUenAIluHPKdWJWp%2F1YGod4vwWkeOkXbjmYE%3D&amp;reserved=0>>
>>>>> On Sep 12, 2018, at 2:05 PM, Alex McGehee <[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Right on, Ron Roscoe. “Facebook is a time sink.”
>>>>> The committees and leadership of ARSC do an absolutely terrific job. Long hours. No pay. Many thanks to all of you.
>>>>> However, Some ARSC members are trying to reduce (difficult to eliminate) on-line surveillance systems that use personal data to make money for gazillionaires. I’ll gladly tell you anything you want to know about the movies I watch and my unusual interest in women’s undergarments, but first, what’s it worth to you? Free, is the wrong answer.
>>>>> ARSC forums are a great way for members to stay in touch, for leadership to keep an ear to the ground, but please, can’t we find an avenue other than Facebook. I’ll bet a survey would show a surprising number of ARSC members who don’t go near the thing. We don’t have pictures of grandchildren we want to share with the world!
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> Alex McGehee
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sep 12, 2018, at 10:35 AM, Lou Judson <[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Some of us don’t use those things.
>>>>>> <L>
>>>>>> Lou Judson
>>>>>> Intuitive Audio
>>>>>> 415-883-2689
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sep 12, 2018, at 7:31 AM, Mason Vander Lugt <[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi ARSC, the Online Media Committee is looking into the idea of creating a discussion group on Facebook, and would like your (ARSC member) input about the possibility. In short, a "Group", in Facebook terms, functions more like a web forum, and would not replace our existing Facebook "Page", which is designed more for ARSC to communicate with members and the public (but, to a lesser extent, supports user submissions).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For examples, you can look at existing Facebook groups for similar organizations:
>>>>>>> AMIA (https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Fgroups%2F76820094560&amp;data=01%7C01%7CDavid.Huff%40UNT.EDU%7Cfa8291e6de414429ff3508d618f9bf2f%7C70de199207c6480fa318a1afcba03983%7C0&amp;sdata=bZeJ9%2BWjoUwu7w4b6JxPjDyuOBw6L5mITdfhEYNP1YE%3D&amp;reserved=0 <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Fgroups%2F76820094560&amp;data=01%7C01%7CDavid.Huff%40UNT.EDU%7Cfa8291e6de414429ff3508d618f9bf2f%7C70de199207c6480fa318a1afcba03983%7C0&amp;sdata=bZeJ9%2BWjoUwu7w4b6JxPjDyuOBw6L5mITdfhEYNP1YE%3D&amp;reserved=0>)
>>>>>>> IASA (https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Fgroups%2F179371048900314&amp;data=01%7C01%7CDavid.Huff%40UNT.EDU%7Cfa8291e6de414429ff3508d618f9bf2f%7C70de199207c6480fa318a1afcba03983%7C0&amp;sdata=ha3D7uJoYghB0PwxK%2BqkW2tjJCt7MW6UC%2Bon9C7A7eA%3D&amp;reserved=0 <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Fgroups%2F179371048900314&amp;data=01%7C01%7CDavid.Huff%40UNT.EDU%7Cfa8291e6de414429ff3508d618f9bf2f%7C70de199207c6480fa318a1afcba03983%7C0&amp;sdata=ha3D7uJoYghB0PwxK%2BqkW2tjJCt7MW6UC%2Bon9C7A7eA%3D&amp;reserved=0>)
>>>>>>> AES (https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Fgroups%2FAudioEngineeringSoc&amp;data=01%7C01%7CDavid.Huff%40UNT.EDU%7Cfa8291e6de414429ff3508d618f9bf2f%7C70de199207c6480fa318a1afcba03983%7C0&amp;sdata=8z%2BHaBtMXl3v1bmD9LULY7ixD%2Ff03xJqTpb%2FrKqUyYQ%3D&amp;reserved=0 <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Fgroups%2FAudioEngineeringSoc&amp;data=01%7C01%7CDavid.Huff%40UNT.EDU%7Cfa8291e6de414429ff3508d618f9bf2f%7C70de199207c6480fa318a1afcba03983%7C0&amp;sdata=8z%2BHaBtMXl3v1bmD9LULY7ixD%2Ff03xJqTpb%2FrKqUyYQ%3D&amp;reserved=0>)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We have created an anonymous 5-question survey on Google forms, link below. Please take a moment to complete it to let us know how you feel about the idea. The OMC will discuss the results at our meeting later this month and will update here after we've had a chance to process results and weigh options. If you would like more information about what such a group would entail, feel free to write me and/or Andrew Hansbrough ([log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgoo.gl%2Fforms%2Fb78SSo8dKHGMvo9H2&amp;data=01%7C01%7CDavid.Huff%40UNT.EDU%7Cfa8291e6de414429ff3508d618f9bf2f%7C70de199207c6480fa318a1afcba03983%7C0&amp;sdata=B0n4AdKS0TiaSWanc7bMWMT2%2FvgDgUBkO33ts4qrpXg%3D&amp;reserved=0 <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgoo.gl%2Fforms%2Fb78SSo8dKHGMvo9H2&amp;data=01%7C01%7CDavid.Huff%40UNT.EDU%7Cfa8291e6de414429ff3508d618f9bf2f%7C70de199207c6480fa318a1afcba03983%7C0&amp;sdata=B0n4AdKS0TiaSWanc7bMWMT2%2FvgDgUBkO33ts4qrpXg%3D&amp;reserved=0>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>>> Mason Vander Lugt and the Online Media Committee
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> P.S. if you are on Facebook but aren't yet following the official ARSC page, check it out! - https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Farscaudio%2F&amp;data=01%7C01%7CDavid.Huff%40UNT.EDU%7Cfa8291e6de414429ff3508d618f9bf2f%7C70de199207c6480fa318a1afcba03983%7C0&amp;sdata=5MMd3w%2BjRZ9YlMZ3Q0QnJL4CnDkn61xTX7GfmcVRP9k%3D&amp;reserved=0 <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Farscaudio%2F&amp;data=01%7C01%7CDavid.Huff%40UNT.EDU%7Cfa8291e6de414429ff3508d618f9bf2f%7C70de199207c6480fa318a1afcba03983%7C0&amp;sdata=5MMd3w%2BjRZ9YlMZ3Q0QnJL4CnDkn61xTX7GfmcVRP9k%3D&amp;reserved=0>
>>>>>>>
>>> ---
>>> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.avg.com&amp;data=01%7C01%7CDavid.Huff%40UNT.EDU%7Cfa8291e6de414429ff3508d618f9bf2f%7C70de199207c6480fa318a1afcba03983%7C0&amp;sdata=xqYjonxnJ1pBjFaIFuKJeHN6MKGKWG0vBt7KJmUHjr8%3D&amp;reserved=0 <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.avg.com&amp;data=01%7C01%7CDavid.Huff%40UNT.EDU%7Cfa8291e6de414429ff3508d618f9bf2f%7C70de199207c6480fa318a1afcba03983%7C0&amp;sdata=xqYjonxnJ1pBjFaIFuKJeHN6MKGKWG0vBt7KJmUHjr8%3D&amp;reserved=0>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2018 15:40:35 -0700
From: Lou Judson <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: [ARSCLIST] ARSC Facebook Group?

“Social Media” has aquired a very specific meaning, and it does not include email groups or listservs.

Just because a “president” tweets doesn’t mean it is something I would do! :-)
<L>
Lou Judson
Intuitive Audio
415-883-2689

On Sep 12, 2018, at 3:17 PM, Alex McGehee <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> Interesting to see how large the kickback against Zuckerberg, Inc. has grown among ARSC members using social media, which this list-serve is.
>
> Alex McGehee
>
>> On Sep 12, 2018, at 6:05 PM, Huff, David <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>
>> Both Facebook proper and its messaging system have apps that millions of people use on their phones every day. I can’t remember the last time I logged into either one.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2018 17:49:44 -0500
From: Charlie Dahan <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: [ARSCLIST] ARSC Facebook Group?

Here is something i could do on Facebook that I cannot do here...block this thread. They asked to fill out a survey. Not flood people’s mailbox with this back and forth.

Charlie Dahan

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 12, 2018, at 5:40 PM, Lou Judson <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> “Social Media” has aquired a very specific meaning, and it does not include email groups or listservs.
>
> Just because a “president” tweets doesn’t mean it is something I would do! :-)
> <L>
> Lou Judson
> Intuitive Audio
> 415-883-2689
>
>> On Sep 12, 2018, at 3:17 PM, Alex McGehee <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>
>> Interesting to see how large the kickback against Zuckerberg, Inc. has grown among ARSC members using social media, which this list-serve is.
>>
>> Alex McGehee
>>
>>> On Sep 12, 2018, at 6:05 PM, Huff, David <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Both Facebook proper and its messaging system have apps that millions of people use on their phones every day. I can’t remember the last time I logged into either one.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2018 18:49:39 -0400
From: Alex McGehee <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: [ARSCLIST] ARSC Facebook Group?

Thanks Lou. I stand corrected.

Alex McGehee
> On Sep 12, 2018, at 6:40 PM, Lou Judson <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> “Social Media” has aquired a very specific meaning, and it does not include email groups or listservs.
>
> Just because a “president” tweets doesn’t mean it is something I would do! :-)
> <L>
> Lou Judson
> Intuitive Audio
> 415-883-2689
>
> On Sep 12, 2018, at 3:17 PM, Alex McGehee <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>> Interesting to see how large the kickback against Zuckerberg, Inc. has grown among ARSC members using social media, which this list-serve is.
>>
>> Alex McGehee
>>
>>> On Sep 12, 2018, at 6:05 PM, Huff, David <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Both Facebook proper and its messaging system have apps that millions of people use on their phones every day. I can’t remember the last time I logged into either one.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2018 22:53:49 +0000
From: "Burgess, Scott" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: [ARSCLIST] ARSC Facebook Group?

Nor can I "like" Charlie's comment! Is it fair, y'all, to say that our voices have been heard and leave this to the admins now?

Let's get back to the usual terrific discussions of obscure and archaic audio formats!

-Scott Burgess

On 9/12/18, 4:50 PM, "Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List on behalf of Charlie Dahan" <[log in to unmask] on behalf of [log in to unmask]> wrote:

    Here is something i could do on Facebook that I cannot do here...block this thread. They asked to fill out a survey. Not flood people’s mailbox with this back and forth.
    
    Charlie Dahan
    
    Sent from my iPhone
    
    > On Sep 12, 2018, at 5:40 PM, Lou Judson <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
    >
    > “Social Media” has aquired a very specific meaning, and it does not include email groups or listservs.
    >
    > Just because a “president” tweets doesn’t mean it is something I would do! :-)
    > <L>
    > Lou Judson
    > Intuitive Audio
    > 415-883-2689
    >
    >> On Sep 12, 2018, at 3:17 PM, Alex McGehee <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
    >>
    >> Interesting to see how large the kickback against Zuckerberg, Inc. has grown among ARSC members using social media, which this list-serve is.
    >>
    >> Alex McGehee
    >>
    >>> On Sep 12, 2018, at 6:05 PM, Huff, David <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
    >>>
    >>> Both Facebook proper and its messaging system have apps that millions of people use on their phones every day. I can’t remember the last time I logged into either one.
    

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2018 00:30:54 +0000
From: "Gary A. Galo" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: ARSC Facebook Group?

I agree with Steve Smolian, and also share the concerns expressed by Peter Hirsch and others. Breaking ARSC discussions between this listserve and Facebook would be a very bad move, and counterproductive to the organization. On the other hand, if ARSC wishes to have a Facebook page to offer information on the organization's activities, and links to our web site, that's fine. I see this as possibly beneficial for recruiting new members. But don't start another discussion group there. And, don't do anything on Facebook that would require ARSC members to have a Facebook account in order to participate in any of the organization's activities.

I am not on Facebook and have no intention of ever being there.

Cheers,
Gary

____________________________

Gary Galo
Audio Engineer Emeritus
The Crane School of Music
SUNY at Potsdam, NY 13676

"Great art presupposes the alert mind of the educated listener."
Arnold Schoenberg

"A true artist doesn't want to be admired, he wants to be believed."
Igor Markevitch

"If you design an audio system based on the premise that nothing is audible,
on that system nothing will be audible."
G. Galo

-----Original Message-----
From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Steven Smolian
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2018 11:28 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] ARSC Facebook Group?

We all have email. That suffices.

I consider anything on facebook unreliable and will not use it. Don't split the ARSC community so those of us deeply uncomfortable with Facebook are frozen out.

Steven Smolian

-----Original Message-----
From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Mason Vander Lugt
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2018 10:32 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [ARSCLIST] ARSC Facebook Group?

Hi ARSC, the Online Media Committee is looking into the idea of creating a discussion group on Facebook, and would like your (ARSC member) input about the possibility. In short, a "Group", in Facebook terms, functions more like a web forum, and would not replace our existing Facebook "Page", which is designed more for ARSC to communicate with members and the public (but, to a lesser extent, supports user submissions).

For examples, you can look at existing Facebook groups for similar organizations:
AMIA (https://www.facebook.com/groups/76820094560)
IASA (https://www.facebook.com/groups/179371048900314)
AES (https://www.facebook.com/groups/AudioEngineeringSoc)

We have created an anonymous 5-question survey on Google forms, link below. Please take a moment to complete it to let us know how you feel about the idea. The OMC will discuss the results at our meeting later this month and will update here after we've had a chance to process results and weigh options. If you would like more information about what such a group would entail, feel free to write me and/or Andrew Hansbrough ([log in to unmask]).

https://goo.gl/forms/b78SSo8dKHGMvo9H2

Thank you,
Mason Vander Lugt and the Online Media Committee

P.S. if you are on Facebook but aren't yet following the official ARSC page, check it out! - https://www.facebook.com/arscaudio/

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2018 13:31:10 +1200
From: Gennady Lyskin <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: ARSC Facebook Group?

Facebook free? As you know, free cheese can be found in a mouse-trap only
:)

Best regards,

Gennady Lyskin

G e n n L a b
http://www.gennlab.com
[log in to unmask]
Tel: +64 21 238 3056
New Zealand
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alex McGehee" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2018 8:05 AM
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] ARSC Facebook Group?


Right on, Ron Roscoe. “Facebook is a time sink.”
The committees and leadership of ARSC do an absolutely terrific job. Long
hours. No pay. Many thanks to all of you.
However, Some ARSC members are trying to reduce (difficult to eliminate)
on-line surveillance systems that use personal data to make money for
gazillionaires. I’ll gladly tell you anything you want to know about the
movies I watch and my unusual interest in women’s undergarments, but first,
what’s it worth to you? Free, is the wrong answer.
ARSC forums are a great way for members to stay in touch, for leadership to
keep an ear to the ground, but please, can’t we find an avenue other than
Facebook. I’ll bet a survey would show a surprising number of ARSC members
who don’t go near the thing. We don’t have pictures of grandchildren we want
to share with the world!

Regards,
Alex McGehee

> On Sep 12, 2018, at 10:35 AM, Lou Judson <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> Some of us don’t use those things.
> <L>
> Lou Judson
> Intuitive Audio
> 415-883-2689
>
> On Sep 12, 2018, at 7:31 AM, Mason Vander Lugt <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>> Hi ARSC, the Online Media Committee is looking into the idea of creating
>> a discussion group on Facebook, and would like your (ARSC member) input
>> about the possibility. In short, a "Group", in Facebook terms, functions
>> more like a web forum, and would not replace our existing Facebook
>> "Page", which is designed more for ARSC to communicate with members and
>> the public (but, to a lesser extent, supports user submissions).
>>
>> For examples, you can look at existing Facebook groups for similar
>> organizations:
>> AMIA (https://www.facebook.com/groups/76820094560)
>> IASA (https://www.facebook.com/groups/179371048900314)
>> AES (https://www.facebook.com/groups/AudioEngineeringSoc)
>>
>> We have created an anonymous 5-question survey on Google forms, link
>> below. Please take a moment to complete it to let us know how you feel
>> about the idea. The OMC will discuss the results at our meeting later
>> this month and will update here after we've had a chance to process
>> results and weigh options. If you would like more information about what
>> such a group would entail, feel free to write me and/or Andrew Hansbrough
>> ([log in to unmask]).
>>
>> https://goo.gl/forms/b78SSo8dKHGMvo9H2
>>
>> Thank you,
>> Mason Vander Lugt and the Online Media Committee
>>
>> P.S. if you are on Facebook but aren't yet following the official ARSC
>> page, check it out! - https://www.facebook.com/arscaudio/
>>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2018 21:20:35 -0500
From: Paul Stamler <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: ARSC Facebook Group?

On 9/12/2018 7:30 PM, Gary A. Galo wrote:
> I agree with Steve Smolian, and also share the concerns expressed by Peter Hirsch and others. Breaking ARSC discussions between this listserve and Facebook would be a very bad move, and counterproductive to the organization. On the other hand, if ARSC wishes to have a Facebook page to offer information on the organization's activities, and links to our web site, that's fine. I see this as possibly beneficial for recruiting new members. But don't start another discussion group there. And, don't do anything on Facebook that would require ARSC members to have a Facebook account in order to participate in any of the organization's activities.
>
> I am not on Facebook and have no intention of ever being there.

I am on Facebook, but I second everything Gary says.

Peace,
Paul Stamler

> Cheers,
> Gary
>
> ____________________________
>
> Gary Galo
> Audio Engineer Emeritus
> The Crane School of Music
> SUNY at Potsdam, NY 13676
>
> "Great art presupposes the alert mind of the educated listener."
> Arnold Schoenberg
>
> "A true artist doesn't want to be admired, he wants to be believed."
> Igor Markevitch
>
> "If you design an audio system based on the premise that nothing is audible,
> on that system nothing will be audible."
> G. Galo
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Steven Smolian
> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2018 11:28 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] ARSC Facebook Group?
>
> We all have email. That suffices.
>
> I consider anything on facebook unreliable and will not use it. Don't split the ARSC community so those of us deeply uncomfortable with Facebook are frozen out.
>
> Steven Smolian
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Mason Vander Lugt
> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2018 10:32 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: [ARSCLIST] ARSC Facebook Group?
>
> Hi ARSC, the Online Media Committee is looking into the idea of creating a discussion group on Facebook, and would like your (ARSC member) input about the possibility. In short, a "Group", in Facebook terms, functions more like a web forum, and would not replace our existing Facebook "Page", which is designed more for ARSC to communicate with members and the public (but, to a lesser extent, supports user submissions).
>
> For examples, you can look at existing Facebook groups for similar organizations:
> AMIA (https://www.facebook.com/groups/76820094560)
> IASA (https://www.facebook.com/groups/179371048900314)
> AES (https://www.facebook.com/groups/AudioEngineeringSoc)
>
> We have created an anonymous 5-question survey on Google forms, link below. Please take a moment to complete it to let us know how you feel about the idea. The OMC will discuss the results at our meeting later this month and will update here after we've had a chance to process results and weigh options. If you would like more information about what such a group would entail, feel free to write me and/or Andrew Hansbrough ([log in to unmask]).
>
> https://goo.gl/forms/b78SSo8dKHGMvo9H2
>
> Thank you,
> Mason Vander Lugt and the Online Media Committee
>
> P.S. if you are on Facebook but aren't yet following the official ARSC page, check it out! - https://www.facebook.com/arscaudio/
>

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

------------------------------

End of ARSCLIST Digest - 11 Sep 2018 to 12 Sep 2018 (#2018-202)
***************************************************************

Top of Message | Previous Page | Permalink

Advanced Options


Options

Log In

Log In

Get Password

Get Password


Search Archives

Search Archives


Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Subscribe or Unsubscribe


Archives

December 2021
November 2021
October 2021
September 2021
August 2021
July 2021
June 2021
May 2021
April 2021
March 2021
February 2021
January 2021
December 2020
November 2020
October 2020
September 2020
August 2020
July 2020
June 2020
May 2020
April 2020
March 2020
February 2020
January 2020
December 2019
November 2019
October 2019
September 2019
August 2019
July 2019
June 2019
May 2019
April 2019
March 2019
February 2019
January 2019
December 2018
November 2018
October 2018
September 2018
August 2018
July 2018
June 2018
May 2018
April 2018
March 2018
February 2018
January 2018
December 2017
November 2017
October 2017
September 2017
August 2017
July 2017
June 2017
May 2017
April 2017
March 2017
February 2017
January 2017
December 2016
November 2016
October 2016
September 2016
August 2016
July 2016
June 2016
May 2016
April 2016
March 2016
February 2016
January 2016
December 2015
November 2015
October 2015
September 2015
August 2015
July 2015
June 2015
May 2015
April 2015
March 2015
February 2015
January 2015
December 2014
November 2014
October 2014
September 2014
August 2014
July 2014
June 2014
May 2014
April 2014
March 2014
February 2014
January 2014
December 2013
November 2013
October 2013
September 2013
August 2013
July 2013
June 2013
May 2013
April 2013
March 2013
February 2013
January 2013
December 2012
November 2012
October 2012
September 2012
August 2012
July 2012
June 2012
May 2012
April 2012
March 2012
February 2012
January 2012
December 2011
November 2011
October 2011
September 2011
August 2011
July 2011
June 2011
May 2011
April 2011
March 2011
February 2011
January 2011
December 2010
November 2010
October 2010
September 2010
August 2010
July 2010
June 2010
May 2010
April 2010
March 2010
February 2010
January 2010
December 2009
November 2009
October 2009
September 2009
August 2009
July 2009
June 2009
May 2009
April 2009
March 2009
February 2009
January 2009
December 2008
November 2008
October 2008
September 2008
August 2008
July 2008
June 2008
May 2008
April 2008
March 2008
February 2008
January 2008
December 2007
November 2007
October 2007
September 2007
August 2007
July 2007
June 2007
May 2007
April 2007
March 2007
February 2007
January 2007
December 2006
November 2006
October 2006
September 2006
August 2006
July 2006
June 2006
May 2006
April 2006
March 2006
February 2006
January 2006
December 2005
November 2005
October 2005
September 2005
August 2005
July 2005
June 2005
May 2005
April 2005
March 2005
February 2005
January 2005
December 2004
November 2004
October 2004
September 2004
August 2004
July 2004
June 2004
May 2004
April 2004
March 2004
February 2004
January 2004
December 2003
November 2003
October 2003
September 2003
August 2003
July 2003
June 2003
May 2003
April 2003
March 2003
February 2003
January 2003

ATOM RSS1 RSS2



LISTSERV.LOC.GOV

CataList Email List Search Powered by the LISTSERV Email List Manager