Hi John,

Not that different - mostly minor mishaps in one that do not occur in the other. All RCA LP reissues, including the last one on Victrola that appeared in the late 1970, are from the 78-rpm set. The Pearl CD reissue is the LP set from April 9, transferred by Ward Marston from real vinyl pressings made from the original metal parts. Ward also transferred the Andante CD reissue, which is mostly the 78-rpm set, with a few patches from opening night to fix a few mishaps. The April 8 opening night performance was recorded, in part, and Ward has vinyl pressings of what survives.

I reviewed the Pearl set in the Spring 1994 issue of the ARSC Journal, and had a follow-up in the fall issue. I offered quite a bit of background on these recordings in the review and follow-up.

Best,
Gary

____________________________

Gary Galo
Audio Engineer Emeritus
The Crane School of Music
SUNY at Potsdam, NY 13676

"Great art presupposes the alert mind of the educated listener."
Arnold Schoenberg

"A true artist doesn't want to be admired, he wants to be believed."
Igor Markevitch

"If you design an audio system based on the premise that nothing is audible,
on that system nothing will be audible."
G. Galo


-----Original Message-----
From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of John Haley
Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2018 3:54 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Shoenberg: Gurrelieder Stokowski vinyl 78 M-127 tracking problems

Gary, how different are the two performances? Interesting that there are
two captured.

Best,
John Haley

On Wed, Sep 19, 2018 at 3:50 PM, Gary A. Galo <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> Hi Richard and Ben,
>
> The 78-rpm set was also pressed on Victrolac, at least in the first run -
> I have a copy. If Ben has Red Seal scroll labels, he's got the 78-rpm set,
> which is the final Philadelphia performance from April 11. If he's got the
> silver Program Transcription labels, it's the 33 1/3-rpm recording of April
> 9 (there's one dubbed side, probably taken from the April 11 recording).
>
> Best,
> Gary
>
> ____________________________
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List [mailto:
> [log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Richard Kaplan
> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2018 3:45 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Shoenberg: Gurrelieder Stokowski vinyl 78 M-127
> tracking problems
>
> Hi Ben,
>
> From what you describe, what you have is almost certainly the Victrolac
> "Program Transcription" as Gary describes. How to tell: the album number is
> LM-127 as opposed to simply M or DM; and, the discs have a silver label as
> opposed to the standard red label for 78s. These are not "78s" at all, but
> early long-play discs that were cut at 33.3. The set is quite rare.
>
> As for tracking, the grooves are narrower than those of regular 78s; my
> copy also mistracks with a standard 78 stylus. Mark Obert-Thorn recommends
> a 2.0 mil stylus.
>
> Rich Kaplan
>
> In a message dated 9/19/2018 2:34:11 PM Central Standard Time,
> [log in to unmask] writes:
>
>
> Hi Ben,
>
> I should have read your first sentence more carefully. What you describe
> as vinyl is actually Victrolac, a "thermoplastic resin" that Victor
> developed for the long-playing Program Transcriptions. There was quite a
> bit of discussion a few weeks back about Victrolac on this list.
>
> Is the stylus picking up any dirt? Dennis Rooney described a problem with
> Victrolac records oozing sticky gook into the grooves. Perhaps he can
> respond and refresh our memories on this.
>
> Gary
>
> ____________________________
>
> Gary Galo
> Audio Engineer Emeritus
> The Crane School of Music
> SUNY at Potsdam, NY 13676
>
> "Great art presupposes the alert mind of the educated listener."
> Arnold Schoenberg
>
> "A true artist doesn't want to be admired, he wants to be believed."
> Igor Markevitch
>
> "If you design an audio system based on the premise that nothing is
> audible,
> on that system nothing will be audible."
> G. Galo
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List [mailto:
> [log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of 6295LARGE
> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2018 3:26 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Shoenberg: Gurrelieder Stokowski vinyl 78 M-127
> tracking problems
>
> Hi Gary,
>
> I never heard of Victrolac.
> I'm sure the record is clean, because I just cleaned it.
> I cleaned it with "PURE 2 - Professional record cleaner from by "Nitty
> Gritty"
>
> I has the scroll label and it feels like vinyl. Is it not vinyl?
>
> Regards,
> Ben
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 19, 2018 at 3:17 PM Gary A. Galo <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> > Hi Ben,
> >
> > Is this a Victrolac pressing with scroll labels, or regular shellac? My
> > Victrolac copy has a lot of crud in the grooves, a problem with that
> > material that was mentioned a few weeks back on this list. If this is the
> > case, the records need a good cleaning.
> >
> > I also had, at one time, a post-war shellac pressing with RCA Victor
> > labels, and a banner-style cover on the album. I've used a 2.5 mil TE on
> > both sets without problems.
> >
> > Best,
> > Gary
> >
> > ____________________________
> >
> > Gary Galo
> > Audio Engineer Emeritus
> > The Crane School of Music
> > SUNY at Potsdam, NY 13676
> >
> > "Great art presupposes the alert mind of the educated listener."
> > Arnold Schoenberg
> >
> > "A true artist doesn't want to be admired, he wants to be believed."
> > Igor Markevitch
> >
> > "If you design an audio system based on the premise that nothing is
> > audible,
> > on that system nothing will be audible."
> > G. Galo
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List [mailto:
> > [log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of 6295LARGE
> > Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2018 3:07 PM
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: [ARSCLIST] Shoenberg: Gurrelieder Stokowski vinyl 78 M-127
> > tracking problems
> >
> > Hello everyone
> >
> > I never thought I'd have tracking problems with these beautiful vinyl
> 78s,
> > but i do.
> > I know they've been reissued on LP and CD, but, strange as it may seem, I
> > need to have the 78's for transferring purposes.
> > The styli are jumping. I've even tried with a .7 mil stylus just to see
> if
> > it would track better.
> > I tried playing the records at 45 and 33, but the styli keep jumping
> > forward. It looks as though the grooves are jerky while the records look
> > brand new.
> >
> > Has anyone ever come across this problem?
> >
> > Regards,
> > Ben Roth
> > PLEASE respond to [log in to unmask]
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
>