Thanks all.
I'm going to see if the 'twist' method Shai suggested and will report back.
This is not about $ - there is no budget anyway. So it's simply a question
of trying to solve a problem. Thankfully there is a copy of this audio
(albeit compressed on a DVD Soundtrack) but it's not completely lost and
somewhere there should be a D1 master that this is actually a dupe of - but
we don;t know where that is at the moment.

On Wed, 4 Nov 2020 at 18:33, Corey Bailey <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> An interesting problem and thus, an interesting thread. As Richard Hess
> & others have mentioned, perhaps it's somethingrelated to the chemistry
> involved over time.
>
> Are there any signs of possible external influence from either moisture
> or a chemical reaction of some sort?
>
> The Richard Hess story about an acetate 1/4-inch tape that had fallen
> behind a Vermont wood stove reminded me of a recent encounter where some
> reel-to-reel tapes had been stored in a Florida attic for 40+ years.
> These were paper backed 1/4-inch tapes on 7" plastic reels that had
> bonded to the plastic reel on one edge only, via some kind of chemical
> process over the years. I had to use a long thin pastry knife, on a
> custom built jig, to separate the tape from the reel (all 11 of them)
> and then separate the layers of audio tape. Many, many splices later,
> the tapes played just fine allowing for the retrieval of the modulation.
> The project was deemed worth it because the tapes contained original
> recordings that would have otherwise been lost. No copies were in
> existence.
>
> Richard (Mint Records):
>
> I'm aware that time = $, & you have been very forthcoming, but if this
> can be solved then everyone is informed & that much further ahead.
>
> My $0.02,
>
> CB
>
> Corey Bailey Audio Engineering
> www.baileyzone.net
>
> On 11/4/2020 9:48 AM, Richard L. Hess wrote:
> > Hi, Richard,
> >
> > I'm wondering if this "ripping point" might be mechanical or
> > thermo-mechanical. I was thinking about this after sending the below
> > email.
> >
> > if there is no "goo" on the tape, I'm wondering if somehow the tape
> > pack might have become damaged.
> >
> > Let's do a thought experiment...imagine a fine piece of heated wire,
> > hot enough to melt the tape, just touching the edge of the tape pack.
> >
> > That would cause the tape to weld layer to layer and generate a nick
> > in the edge of the tape which would facilitate the tearing. I see the
> > tearing akin to when you nick the edge of a piece of packing tape and
> > it tears, not always straight across...or like trying to remove the
> > end of a roll of packing tape that has stuck down without a fold-over.
> >
> > Now, with the thought experiment under our belts, what type of action
> > could cause that type of damage? I don't know, but perhaps pressure on
> > the cassette shell could something into the tape pack that could cause
> > at least the nick, but that doesn't explain the "weld" at the "nick."
> >
> > Interesting. I do think that further operations need to be on the tape
> > back outside of the shell. Keeping it in the shell limits the range of
> > motion...I know this is getting into shaky territory here and this
> > DEFINITELY DOES NOT CONSTITUTE PROPER ARCHIVAL RECOMMENDATIONS, but
> > this is already a "science project."
> >
> > Good luck!
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Richard
> >
> >
> >
> > On 2020-11-04 12:25 p.m., Richard L. Hess wrote:
> >> Hi, Richard,
> >>
> >> That is a totally different problem. I don't recall ever seeing that
> >> in a DAT tape, but I have seen it in reels and cassettes.
> >>
> >> In the cases I've seen, the rip starts because there is both adhesion
> >> and damage at that point.
> >>
> >> In one case, it was an acetate 1/4-inch tape that had fallen behind a
> >> Vermont wood stove--for a winter or two--and there was some edge
> >> melting (and bonding) of the tape. After a good deal of work, the
> >> client and I decided to abandon the recovery.
> >>
> >> In perhaps several other cases with cassette tapes, it appeared that
> >> some adhesive-like material (highly sweetened coffee, perhaps?) had
> >> spilled into the shell. I suggested unspooling the tape and washing
> >> it as Dr. Bradshaw and his team did with the Challenger tape which
> >> had magnesium salts deposited on it by the salt water corrosion of
> >> the magnesium tape reels. I proposed a reasonable price (from my
> >> perspective) to undertake this radical treatment, but the client
> >> declined.
> >>
> >> So, if you can identify if this ripping is caused by adhesion and
> >> then identify a means of removing the adhesion, it might play.
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >>
> >> Richard
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On 2020-11-04 7:22 a.m., Mint Records wrote:
> >>> Baked for 4 days. Unfortunately it doesn't seem to have worked - or
> >>> sticky
> >>> shed wasn't the fault in the first place. I don't know anymore. I
> >>> edited
> >>> the tape back together, and deceased to hand wind the tape to see
> >>> how it
> >>> was reacting. It gets to the same spot on every turn and the tape
> >>> sticks
> >>> and starts to tear again. I'm not sure what i can now do. Perhaps it's
> >>> beyond help. I'm not sure 4 more days baking will do the trick. It
> >>> seems to
> >>> be that it is stuck fast at the top of the reel every so often,
> >>> which then
> >>> just rips the tape. A big giveaway that this is the case throughout the
> >>> tape is that the pack just doesn't move.
> >>>
> >>> Unless anyone has any bright ideas, I think It may be the end of the
> >>> road
> >>> for this one.
> >>>
> >>
> >
>