Almost all 45s in Europe and other countries outside North America have small holes or “optional centers” that can be pushed out. The patented RCA 45 system REQUIRED the large hole of all licensed manufacturers as well as the .1 mil microgroove stylus. The 7-inch diameter itself goes back to Berliner in the 1890s, so small hole 7-inches can be any speed, and since the patents for the 45 have expired, so 45s can also have small holes. In fact, they always came off the press with small holes And the large hole or optional push out slots always have had to be punched after initial cooling. But as for the instantaneous one-of-a-kind discs that were the subject of the original poster, they could be any speed and groove size that the disc cutter desired or could do. Most home machines like a Wilcox-Gay Recordio, or Silvertone only cut at 78 widegroove, although professional or semi-Pro machines always had a 33 option (as well as 78) back to the beginning in 1934, could be set for different groove spacing, and later on could be modified for 45 after 1949, and microgroove after 1948. An by the way, the cutting surfaces of metal or glass base discs are cellulose nitrate lacquer, not vinyl or acetate. Michael Biel.

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From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List <[log in to unmask]> on behalf of Ron Roscoe <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2021 12:06:08 PM
To: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] [nevec] Rare records need to be digitized.

I don’t think the first commercial 45’s ever used a 78 sized groove. Be hard to get 5 minutes of music on one side of a 45 using the wider 78 groove. The whole 45 system with changer was ready before WW2 and was held up because of WW2. Do you know of any examples of 45’s with a regular small center hole? [9/32”?]

Ron



From: [log in to unmask] [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Adrian Zeffert
Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2021 11:45 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [nevec] Rare records need to be digitized.



Hugh:

My reccolection is that the first 45's had a standard LP hole until the 'stacker' was invented for automated players. Thats why all record players of the 60's on up came with the 'Puck' to fit over an LP spindle for the revised 45. I don't know if the first 45's used a 78 needle but it is possible, until the BiRadial Saphire or Diamond needles were born.

Hope other NEVECer's have other thoughts.

I have many 78's and LP's. Cannot find my collection of 45's, probably lost in one of 5 moves!

If anyone interested I have about 12, 7" reel tapes used by TWA for music entertainment on their aircraft. Have to wait for better weather to get them out of my shed. Last time i played one on my 7" deck, about 5 years ago the quality was excellent.



Adrian

AB2IX



On Tue, Feb 16, 2021, 10:58 Hugh Vartanian <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

Hi group,
I have these 5 one-of-a-kind records from my 80-odd year old friend with some folk music she made with other people in the mid-50's, probably in Greenwich Village NYC. She asked me to help rip them to digital, some kind of archiving project she is involved in to save these recordings.

I ultrasonically cleaned them last night, that appeared to go OK. 2 of them are the same, 12" 33-1/3, with aluminum discs inside the vinyl (one has a slight chip). These play somewhat OK on my turntable although it sounds like there is still a bunch of dirt in the grooves.

The other 3 are all different, 7" discs, either 45 or 78, I can't quite tell. The turntable I am using only does 45 and 33. They have a 9/32 hole, not a 45 hole. (were there any 45's that had a small hole? this would be a hint).

With the LP stylus on my turntable, the sound is almost inaudible and the tracking of the needle makes a noticeable stripe in reflected light on the record surface. AGGGGAAAHH, needle-less(!) to say, I stopped immediately. Is it possible that these may just need a 78-sized stylus? I do have a couple of turntables that do 78, but they will need some TLC (a miracord and an older garrard, iirc). While I am up for trying that, I would be interested if anyone know someone that specializes in such efforts. I'm glad to pay for the help, should the 78 turntable resurrection doesn't work out. I may try the audio place in Harvard square (if they are still around).

Thanks!
Hugh

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