It is not a mystery. I have some of the experimental recording sheets for the Madam X project where they were testing all manner of speed, disc size, and groove size from around 1940–42. The Columbia LP had NOTHING to do with it. Microgroove had been experimented with by Bell Labs in the 1920s. They are listed in the BTL ledgers. RCA realized 33 was too slow for a small disc. They worked on 40, 45, and I think 50. The idea was to have as little a surface speed change from outer to inner diameters. When Sarnoff turned to his engineers in the 1948 meeting with Paley and said “We have a better system, don’t we?” He was not angry or challenging to his staff. He was GLOATING because he knew the 45 was better. And it IS. The LP still is a lousy system. There’s too much contrast between outer and inner groove speed, and the inner groove speed is too slow — doesn’t everyone complain about inner groove distortion?
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Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] [EXTERNAL] Re: [ARSCLIST] [nevec] Rare records need to be digitized.
No, they did not. Before Rene Snepvangers went to Columbia, he was an engineer for RCA Victor and, circa 1945, he was working on the early development of the 45-rpm record. Whether or not the early prototypes were microgroove remains a mystery, though. My understanding about Snepvangers' contribution to the Columbia LP is that he was responsible for microgroove. How this may have conflicted - or may not have conflicted - with his previous work for RCA remains a mystery, at least to me. The only 45's I've seen with a small center hole are some European classical discs that have what looks like a 45-adapter in the center, which could be punched out if you wanted to play them on a 45-rpm changer. But, I've never seen a 45 that looked like a 7-inch LP.
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Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [ARSCLIST] [nevec] Rare records need to be digitized.
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I don’t think the first commercial 45’s ever used a 78 sized groove. Be hard to get 5 minutes of music on one side of a 45 using the wider 78 groove. The whole 45 system with changer was ready before WW2 and was held up because of WW2. Do you know of any examples of 45’s with a regular small center hole? [9/32”?]
From: [log in to unmask] [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Adrian Zeffert
Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2021 11:45 AM
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Subject: Re: [nevec] Rare records need to be digitized.
My reccolection is that the first 45's had a standard LP hole until the 'stacker' was invented for automated players. Thats why all record players of the 60's on up came with the 'Puck' to fit over an LP spindle for the revised 45. I don't know if the first 45's used a 78 needle but it is possible, until the BiRadial Saphire or Diamond needles were born.
Hope other NEVECer's have other thoughts.
I have many 78's and LP's. Cannot find my collection of 45's, probably lost in one of 5 moves!
If anyone interested I have about 12, 7" reel tapes used by TWA for music entertainment on their aircraft. Have to wait for better weather to get them out of my shed. Last time i played one on my 7" deck, about 5 years ago the quality was excellent.
On Tue, Feb 16, 2021, 10:58 Hugh Vartanian <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
I have these 5 one-of-a-kind records from my 80-odd year old friend with some folk music she made with other people in the mid-50's, probably in Greenwich Village NYC. She asked me to help rip them to digital, some kind of archiving project she is involved in to save these recordings.
I ultrasonically cleaned them last night, that appeared to go OK. 2 of them are the same, 12" 33-1/3, with aluminum discs inside the vinyl (one has a slight chip). These play somewhat OK on my turntable although it sounds like there is still a bunch of dirt in the grooves.
The other 3 are all different, 7" discs, either 45 or 78, I can't quite tell. The turntable I am using only does 45 and 33. They have a 9/32 hole, not a 45 hole. (were there any 45's that had a small hole? this would be a hint).
With the LP stylus on my turntable, the sound is almost inaudible and the tracking of the needle makes a noticeable stripe in reflected light on the record surface. AGGGGAAAHH, needle-less(!) to say, I stopped immediately. Is it possible that these may just need a 78-sized stylus? I do have a couple of turntables that do 78, but they will need some TLC (a miracord and an older garrard, iirc). While I am up for trying that, I would be interested if anyone know someone that specializes in such efforts. I'm glad to pay for the help, should the 78 turntable resurrection doesn't work out. I may try the audio place in Harvard square (if they are still around).
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