Thanks for the link. Your transfer is a bit sharp. The Rienzi Overture is in D major - yours is about half way between D and E-flat. It's always struck me as a fine performance, and rehearing it this morning reaffirmed that view. Prince was a fine musician, unheralded except among specialist collectors. He gets the tempo change right, at the Allegro energico at rehearsal number 2 (Dover p. 12). Many far more famous conductors take the Allegro energico too slowly. There's a similar transition at the Un poco piu vivace at number 7 (Dover, p 34), but the cut taken to fit the piece on two sides eliminates it. Bravo Charles Prince, and thank you, Mickey, for making this available.
Your label is the same as my copy - the conductor is not acknowledged.
Audio Engineer Emeritus
The Crane School of Music
SUNY at Potsdam, NY 13676
"Great art presupposes the alert mind of the educated listener."
"A true artist doesn't want to be admired, he wants to be believed."
From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List <[log in to unmask]> On Behalf Of Mickey Clark
Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2021 11:14 PM
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Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [ARSCLIST] ARSC List of Notable pre-1923 recordings, just posted
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Gary - here is a link to the video on Youtube my dub of the Rienzi Overture by Prince-Mickey
From: Alex McGehee
Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2021 4:15 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] ARSC List of Notable pre-1923 recordings, just posted
Nice comments Gary. Maybe others have mentioned that the Brahms Hungarian Dance No. 5 wasn’t even by Brahms. It was the work of the Hungarian composer Béla Kéler. I think Brahms thought he had a traditional folksong on his hands. The Brahms version was written for piano four hands, and god knows how much of his own orchestral thinking Stokowski put into the Victor version.
My main objection to its inclusion is that this work was endlessly programmed for concerts from its publication to the date of this Victor recording. An old chestnut if ever there was one. It represents lazy thinking in the classical music repertoire to choose it, if I might say so.
Far worthier would be the near complete version of Haydn’s Symphony No. 94, recorded in Victor’s Camden, New Jersey studio on the 11th and 12th of Nov.
1912. Yeah, I know it’s a chestnut now too, but a century ago Haydn was finally emerging from more than a century’s worth of neglect. He’s certainly a greater composer than Brahms and before someone gets angry,, consider that appraisal was by Brahms himself.
An even more noteworthy recording would be Victor’s release of Haydn’s Symphony No. 100, Walter B. Rogers (Victor’s house conductor) and the Victor Concert Orchestra. UCSB gives the dates as June 5, 1913 and Oct. 28, 1915.
Both symphonies suffer abridgments and are the arrangements of Theodore Moses Tobani, done primarily for purposes related to the technical limitations of the acoustical recording process with full orchestral forces.
So with Symphony 100, the slow introduction is jettisoned, but the rest of the first movement is complete. Twenty bars from the second movement are cut, but they are somewhat a repetition of the movement's first 20 bars, so the movement seems as if it is complete to most listeners. The third and fourth movements are both complete.
Back to the Brahms. I know it sounds really great, but so do these Haydn recordings and they were done years earlier than the Brahms. They are also of far greater significance in the early recordings of concert repertoire. I haven’t found sound files for No. 94, except for its second movement, which UCSB has. Neither UCSB or the National Jukebox has anything from No. 100, but the British Library has all of it and it sounds wonderful.
And if I may land one more punch for Haydn, Pol Plançon sounds a lot better in Air du laboureur ( trans. French) from Haydn’s Jahreszeiten: Schon eilet froh der Ackermann than he does on the ARSC acoustic list with Couplets du tambour-major. That’s just my opinion, but you can hear it for yourself on UCSB’s website <https://adp.library.ucsb.edu/index.php/matrix/detail/200003696/C-2321-Air_du_laboureur>
Pre-holiday cheers to all,
ARSC Membership Committee, chair
> On Nov 9, 2021, at 1:31 PM, Gary A. Galo
> <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> I have a couple of comments about this compilation, and I'm sure other
> members will have some of their own.
> Stokowski's Brahms Hungarian Dance No. 5 was not the first recording
> of a full symphony orchestra, not even on Victor, and not even in the
> United States. Karl Muck and the Boston Symphony Orchestra made their
> first records for Victor 3 weeks before Stokowski, because Stokowski
> initially rejected Victor's offer to make records. The first was the
> 4th movement of Tchaikovsky's 4th Symphony, and utilized the entire
> Boston Symphony Orchestra. The dates can be confirmed on DAHR. And,
> Charles Prince conducted an orchestra of 90 players for Columbia
> performing Wagner's Rienzi Overture in February of 1917. Again, DAHR
> can confirm the date and the number of musicians involved (the number
> is also given on the record label).
> Also, though some might view it as a technicality, Vesti la Giubba is
> not a song, it's an opera aria.
> Gary Galo
> Audio Engineer Emeritus
> The Crane School of Music
> SUNY at Potsdam, NY 13676
> "Great art presupposes the alert mind of the educated listener."
> Arnold Schoenberg
> "A true artist doesn't want to be admired, he wants to be believed."
> Igor Markevitch