A bit of history.

During the acoustic period, Victor used a compound which made a quieter surface, thus better signal-to-noise, and allowed a lighter record which reduced shipping costs.  They offered its use to its Gramophone Company cousin who declined it, as I believe it meant incurring the costs of replacing their presses with one suited to the new mix.    

Wiki: "Shellac (/ʃəˈlæk/)[1] is a resin secreted by the female lac bug on trees in the forests of India and Thailand. It is processed and sold as dry flakes and dissolved in alcohol to make liquid shellac

It thus became unavailable during WW II.  Given the war in the Pacific, it could still be shipped to the Italians (who presumably sent much on by rail to Germany) and the Japanese when shipping was more-or-less secure, less so as the war progressed.  

It is my understanding that 78s were made of a compound, primarily limestone, to which a percentage of shellac, dyes  and other materials were added.  Early wartime German pressings are excellent, much less so for those made later and immediately after the war. Most of the unoccupied and neutral rest of the world used substitutes with varying degrees of immediate success and long-term stability.  The cost of materials also affected quality.  Records made to sell cheaply at retail are usually noisier than their pricier cousins, but companies like Musicraft, who produced their own products and those of some other small outfits, were always lousy (a technical term.)  Experience suggests that, for many of the smaller outfits, formulas changed as, for example, a supplier would cease shipments for non-payment of outstanding balances and a hungrier plant would pick them up, etc.   Executives have relationships with specific plants and a change in job could lead to a different quality of product. 

The record industry is focused on making a profit which only comes with the first sale.  The collector's aftermarket is of absolutely no concern to them, nor should it be.

Others may have corrections and further data to add.  

Steve Smolian


-----Original Message-----
From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List <[log in to unmask]> On Behalf Of Railroads On Parade
Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2022 4:07 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] acetate and vinylite

ARSDL
It is my intention to find pertinent information about the specific composition of material used to make these 78 rpm discs.
If you have the name of a book or library or librarian or scientist or chemist, anyone with that kind of knowledge I'd be most obliged.
It is that simple.
I've seen some very personal quips and back and forth at this Discussion List and would like it to remain a positive source for me.
Thank you,
Guy Walker

On Wed, 30 Nov 2022 at 16:02, Railroads On Parade < [log in to unmask]> wrote:

> DDR,
> I'm writing about the "post 2nd WW grunge" Dave Deihl replied about.
> GW
>
>
> On Wed, 30 Nov 2022 at 16:00, Railroads On Parade < 
> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>> DDR
>> I just read the email I sent to a Columbia University graduate and 
>> they understood completely.
>> GW
>>
>> On Wed, 30 Nov 2022 at 15:59, Dennis Rooney <[log in to unmask]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I am not sure what you mean by "bookish comprehensive resolve" but 
>>> with respect to Columbia vs. Victor:
>>>
>>> Munves's observation referred to production at the two labels. Until 
>>> 1939, when it was purchased by CBS, the Columbia Phonograph Co. had 
>>> a rather high quality product that didn't sell as well as Victor. 
>>> Immediately following the sale, the plating in the three-step 
>>> metalwork of post-1939 Columbias was cheapened and the introduction 
>>> of mastering on 33-1/3rpm acetate lacquer blanks made the subsequent 
>>> development of a long-playing record possible in 1947-48, but the 
>>> dubbing of every approved take from slow speed to 78rpm master 
>>> resulted in an inferior sounding product, and Columbia 78s from U, 
>>> S. metals all sounded inferior until the format was abandoned in 
>>> 1952. Matrices of European manufacture, however, did not have this 
>>> problem.
>>>
>>> Victor's "gold" then "white gold" pressings exhibit a similar 
>>> decline in manufactured quality which, fortunately, was limited to 
>>> pressing quality, particularly the "wartime" pressings. Vinylite was 
>>> introduced into the RCA biscuit immediately after WW2 and their 
>>> discs from that period are quieter, but are frequently bad sounding 
>>> due to the label's mistaken use of audio limiting in the mastering 
>>> process.
>>>
>>> Columbia's success with the Lp and its marketing strategy led to a 
>>> rapid improvement in the label's sales and production quality. 
>>> Hence, the second part of Peter Munves's observation.
>>>
>>> Ciao,
>>>
>>> DDR
>>>
>>> On Wed, Nov 30, 2022 at 6:36 AM Railroads On Parade < 
>>> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>
>>> > Mr. Diehl,
>>> > What is the compositional makeup of post war grunge?  I'm pretty
>>> familiar
>>> > with what Carnegie did with the RCA Z recordings, but I've never 
>>> > seen anybody breakdown what was being watered down and/or what was 
>>> > being
>>> added
>>> > or subtracted.
>>> > The RCA exec R. Peter Munves once told me that Columbia was not so
>>> good,
>>> > and then it was good, then it was not so good and RCA was better 
>>> > here
>>> than
>>> > there, but I have never gotten any more than that.  I can see and 
>>> > feel
>>> the
>>> > difference between Columbia gold band and grey, I can hear 
>>> > differences
>>> in
>>> > HMV pressings and Columbia made in France, I am just at a dead end 
>>> > in
>>> any
>>> > bookish comprehensive resolve.
>>> > GW
>>> >
>>> > On Tue, 29 Nov 2022 at 21:45, David Diehl < 
>>> > [log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > > The Haven sessions were re-released on Chronological Classics 1253.
>>> They
>>> > > sound pretty clean to me, maybe dubs of test pressings but not
>>> typical
>>> > > post-war 78 grunge.
>>> > >
>>> > >  David Diehl
>>> > >
>>> > > -----Original Message-----
>>> > > From: Mickey Clark <[log in to unmask]>
>>> > > To: [log in to unmask]
>>> > > Sent: Tue, Nov 29, 2022 7:49 pm
>>> > > Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] acetate and vinylite
>>> > >
>>> > > Hi Guy - I think it would be worth your while to try a transfer 
>>> > > with
>>> a
>>> > > VRII
>>> > > cartridge. Some records that sound terrible with a stereo 
>>> > > cartridge
>>> can
>>> > > sound flawless with a true mono cart-Mickey Clark
>>> > >
>>> > > -----Original Message-----
>>> > > From: Railroads On Parade
>>> > > Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2022 2:08 PM
>>> > > To: [log in to unmask]
>>> > > Subject: [ARSCLIST] acetate and vinylite
>>> > >
>>> > > After searching around for a good sounding Bill De Arango/Ben
>>> Webster 78
>>> > > Mr.Brim and Dark Corners it occurred to me that after listening 
>>> > > to
>>> one on
>>> > > youtube as rough sounding as mine, and the only transcription I 
>>> > > have
>>> been
>>> > > able to find, a better transcription might not exist.  I don't 
>>> > > see
>>> the
>>> > > recordings were ever transferred (please prove me wrong) but 
>>> > > what
>>> also
>>> > came
>>> > > to mind is, the different formulas (I assume) of acetates, 
>>> > > shellacs
>>> and
>>> > > vinylite and any documentation of what they were and who used 
>>> > > them
>>> and
>>> > > when?
>>> > > My copy and the one on youtube both appear to the eye as new, 
>>> > > but
>>> sound
>>> > as
>>> > > if they are not.  It simply comes to mind that maybe the mix of 
>>> > > the
>>> stuff
>>> > > used to press the disc was inferior?
>>> > > Guy Walker
>>> > >
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> 1006 Langer Way
>>> Delray Beach, FL 33483
>>> 561.265.2976
>>>
>>